Woad Warrior's RTW Battle Guide

I'm putting a link to this thread in my Guide. just to notify

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Originally Posted by Ludens

So, Numidia's best unit is certainly not the Numidian legionary, which is basically an overpriced, underpowered principes, but their light cavalry. Similarly, the unit that is most important in my Briton battleplans is the light chariot.

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I must disagree; the most important unit in a Numidian army, is the desert infantry. It has equal attack, but lower defense stats than hastati and principes, and is avaible early on. The Numidian cavalry can`t really stand melee; but are very useful to have when you want to hit your enemy in the rear. In order to allow the Numidian cavalry to do just that, I use the desert infantry to pin the enemy. It`s quite effective. ~:)

What makes Numidian cavalry more of a backbone unit than the Desert Infantry (which is backbone for their foot units I suppose) is that in the campaign, it's a bit easier and cheaper to build up an army of them than it is to get the spearmen. Try a Numidian campaign and if you want to survive and build up your empire, it will be masses of cavalry and not spearmen you need to hastily recruit. I think in the first 20 years or so of my campaign, I probably was only able to train 1 spearmen for every 5-6 cavalry units. As for their lack of melee prowess, just lure the enemy infantry out and simultaneously charge a cavalry unit in the front and rear of the weakened enemy unit. Bye-bye enemy soldiers.

Later on in the campaign, Spearmen and Imitation legionaries become more commonplace and valuable. It's also worth mentioning that despite the fact the Desert Spearmen have the same basic attack value as Principes and Hastati, their lower lethality rate and spear penalty against infantry makes them inferior to sword infantry anyway.

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Originally Posted by professorspatula

What makes Numidian cavalry more of a backbone unit than the Desert Infantry (which is backbone for their foot units I suppose) is that in the campaign, it's a bit easier and cheaper to build up an army of them than it is to get the spearmen. Try a Numidian campaign and if you want to survive and build up your empire, it will be masses of cavalry and not spearmen you need to hastily recruit. I think in the first 20 years or so of my campaign, I probably was only able to train 1 spearmen for every 5-6 cavalry units. As for their lack of melee prowess, just lure the enemy infantry out and simultaneously charge a cavalry unit in the front and rear of the weakened enemy unit. Bye-bye enemy soldiers.

Later on in the campaign, Spearmen and Imitation legionaries become more commonplace and valuable. It's also worth mentioning that despite the fact the Desert Spearmen have the same basic attack value as Principes and Hastati, their lower lethality rate and spear penalty against infantry makes them inferior to sword infantry anyway.

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Well, I played several battles in my Numidian campaign today, and Numidian cavalry isn`t really that useful, since they die very easily.
Desert infantry are also cheaper to recruit than numidian cavalry, although the upkeep is a bit higher.

Besides, if you was to face a roman legion, you would be bad off without infantry support, but also bad off if you don`t have cavalry support. I believe they are both eqaully the backbone units of Numidia; you need them both.

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Originally Posted by Viking

Besides, if you was to face a roman legion, you would be bad off without infantry support, but also bad off if you don`t have cavalry support. I believe they are both eqaully the backbone units of Numidia; you need them both.

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We agree on that. But I don't use my light cavalry for melee. That is the privilidge of the family members and (lateron) long shield cavalry. Light cavalries main use is to irritate the enemy, and Numidians are very good at that due their speed and deadly javelins. The A.I. usually tries to pursue them in an effort to stop them from hitting his unshielded side, but few units are fast enough to keep up with them. In this way they can tear apart and exhaust the enemy army. They don't do much damage (though their javelins are very good at softening up legionaries or Carthaginian pikes) but their actions will ruin the A.I.'s formation and make his army approach yours piecemeal and often tired as well.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

We agree on that. But I don't use my light cavalry for melee. That is the privilidge of the family members and (lateron) long shield cavalry. Light cavalries main use is to irritate the enemy, and Numidians are very good at that due their speed and deadly javelins. The A.I. usually tries to pursue them in an effort to stop them from hitting his unshielded side, but few units are fast enough to keep up with them. In this way they can tear apart and exhaust the enemy army. They don't do much damage (though their javelins are very good at softening up legionaries or Carthaginian pikes) but their actions will ruin the A.I.'s formation and make his army approach yours piecemeal and often tired as well.

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But you`ll have problems without infantry. Against elefants, chariots, spearmen and so on.

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Originally Posted by Viking

But you`ll have problems without infantry. Against elefants, chariots, spearmen and so on.

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Sorry, I did not make myself clear. When I said that melee was the privilidge of my family members and long shields I meant that I used them as my hammer in hammer-and-anvil tactics. The anvil is made up of Desert spearmen, supported by some skirmishers.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Sorry, I did not make myself clear. When I said that melee was the privilidge of my family members and long shields I meant that I used them as my hammer in hammer-and-anvil tactics. The anvil is made up of Desert spearmen, supported by some skirmishers.

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Ok. Then the argument is whether desert infantry should be called a backbone unit or not. :juggle2:

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Originally Posted by Viking

Ok. Then the argument is whether desert infantry should be called a backbone unit or not. :juggle2:

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Desert infantry is the backbone, but light cavalry are the hands ~;) .

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Desert infantry is the backbone, but light cavalry are the hands ~;) .

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I can`t agree with that either....

Your generals or numidian skirmisher that would be, in my opinion. ~:)

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Originally Posted by Viking

I can`t agree with that either....

Your generals or numidian skirmisher that would be, in my opinion. ~:)

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I can't help but think that you are using Numidian cavalry wrong, but as I don't MP I guess I cannot prove my point. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

Personally, I think Desert Infantry are the backbone unit. They are solid and reliable spearmen. You may have just as many Numidian Cavalry in an army, but they act less as the solid Center and more as skirmishers.

Against the RTW AI, it's possible to defeat an entire army with 2 general's units and one unit of light cav to mop up routers. Believe me, I've done it.

I'd take Numidian Cav over the spearmen anyday...

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

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Maybe that`s best..

I`ll test out the Numidian cavalry some more, undoubtfully. Right now in my campaign, is it rather difficult to test them out, but once my empire is stabilized, I`ll give them more time.

Very nice guide!

I noticed a little mistake of yours though, at least one unit of archers in the Schiltrom was still on skirmish mode, so it was running out of the protected centre. Also, if you leave gaps like you did cavalry could always punch a hole through it. If your phalanx is not deep they can just run through as well, it's happened a few times in EB, with Hetairoi units running through my Taxeis Hoplitai line without a single casualty :(

Yeah that was an incredibly stupid mistake of me leaving Skirmish mode on, managed to save the other 2 archer units just in time. Perhaps I should add this to the guide, its an easy mistake to make.

dude, you use my Faovrtie Faction Seleciud,you my hero :-) :-)!!!!!!!! lol

I'm busy with exams just now but I'm planning to do guides on Historical Battles, and maybe some campaign ones.

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Originally Posted by Woad Warrior

I'm busy with exams just now but I'm planning to do guides on Historical Battles, and maybe some campaign ones.

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~:thumb:

That should be very interesting. Good luck in exams.

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Against the RTW AI, it's possible to defeat an entire army with 2 general's units and one unit of light cav to mop up routers. Believe me, I've done it.

I'd take Numidian Cav over the spearmen anyday...

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Yep, I've seen that too: once 'I' completely destroyed an entire Seleucid army containing a bunch of backbone/ elite phalanxes some elephants, some archers and a few units of Cataphracts! My urban cohorts didn't even get a chance to play their part in that game - I was only using 2 units of Praetorians.

It went like this: I arranged my army in a single line, with my cavalry on the wings. I advanced with my cavalry in the front (still on the wings) and my infantry one unit deep behind.

The AI started to go after both Praetorian units - so I sent them past the AI line. I took out the Cataphracts, and by that time the entire enemy army was completely messed up.

The elephants wandered trough friendly unit's, the enemy archers shot the elephants, the phalanxes didn't know where to go and to cup it all the elephants went limp.

Meanwhile I took out several phalanxes from the sides, and the enemy elephants and archers were busy finishing off whatever was left from the enemy army. Then the entire army routed (except from the elephants, who had run ahmok) - and I hunted them down with my remaining Praetorians.

But a nice crossed swords - sign simply refused to appear just outside Tarsus on the campaign map, although my Praetorians truly had deserved it that day!

In other words: I, for one, believe Craterus. What can be done with 2 units of Praetorians, should be possible with a few good generals and a unit of light cavalry too.

I tried out the schiltroms - but the enemy charged into the small exposed bit of flank of a phalanx, which made them rout - they then easily routed the other phalanxes from the inside.

It's hardly sporting to use such strategy against the poor AI.

:2thumbsup:

Excellent Guide Woad Warrior! Would you mind making an updated one for Medieval II Total War with tips on how to effectively use gunpowder units and artillery?

I wonder why this thread is in the EH and not in the Colliseum.

Was never moved.

Eusebius86, you are hitting a dead cow.

moved.

You've forgotten one strategy:
Moral Assault with barbarian factions, the screeching women/wardogs combo really hurt the enemy

if timed right, it can cause an "academic" chain rout

Hold on you said the Armenian best unit is their heavy spearmen. But what about the armenian legionaries?

"You're hitting a dead cow." Please explain...