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See I dont understand why people dont like yall. Illegals come here squat drive down wages and dont assimalate. If you came down here and went to the Texas border all the cities (even the ones like Brownsville and El Paso which have 500,000 in population) are absoulte crap. The cities are horibble and getting worse everyday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
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Originally Posted by master of the puppets
um no. um tey are Illerals. um if they are here Illeagly,um,they should be deported,or in my case,shot if they try to jump um fence um.
um
Because Asian women are hotter and don't smell like refried beans? Maybe I'm off a little...Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
MRD this thread isnt about birth rates in the USA. I would like to see some stizats. An educated mexican or asian is much diffrent from illegals. Many of these illegal mexicans tend to be more "fertile" and have many kids whom grow up in poverty aernt tuaght proper english or given tools to sucseed thereby just starting the process all over agian
great idea, lets build a wall across the border with machine gun nests every 100 yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
My eyes are bleeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
Additionally you can't just shoot them. Try to stop them, yes. Deport those we catch, yes. Shoot them, no.
One of the big problems we face is security. Only the good Lord has kept somebody from Al Queida (awful spelling, my apologies) from crossing the border and doing something nasty.
Unless their just waiting.
:laugh4: :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
:laugh4: What is this car crash all about?Quote:
Originally Posted by BHCWarman88
It says that he should be shot if he tries to jump a fence.
Our law definitions can be a little diferent but there is a cultural sea between an illegal action and a criminal one, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
Still, if the assertion of "all illegal inmigrants are criminals" could be true, sometimes is better be considered a criminal in other country than being killed in your own land.
Only in legalese.Quote:
Originally Posted by Favius Argentum
In general English a they are the same thing.
Criminalizing illegal immigrants would be a foolish mistake. I'm all for tighter border security and deporting illegal aliens when found. But at the end of the day, take away the demand for their labor and the problem will solve itself. If you want to punish somebody, make it prohibitively punitive to even consider hiring them, like losing your license to practice busines, etc. Criminalizing the immigrants themselves turns a somewhat peaceful law-breaker into a somewhat violent one. If he thinks he's going to be dropped into an American prison with Bubba as a new wife, he's going to be much, much more likely to put up a fight. Not to mention, what do we do with the not so uncommon case where whole families cross? Throw the kids in Juvy?
No, we to establish fines the legal equivalent of a colonostomy for anybody that's caught hiring them, knowingly or unknowingly. The problem will solve itself from there on out.
Don C:
Your wisdom is once again displayed.
Market forces dictate that if there exists a market for X, someone will find a way to supply it.
In the CCCP, efficient service was often unavailable (like plumbing repair for your "free" apartment) -- unless you dealt with the black market in which case you got the stuff pronto (though at a premium).
If employers in the USA are less willing to hire illegals, fewer of them will make the trip.
If the USA would curb its apetite for illegal drugs, crime would plummet.
I think Seamus and I should form a mutal-appreciation-society. Absolutely spot on with the drug question Seamus.
I don't believe we have to do only one thing or another. I definitely would support that, even making the ceos of corporations who knowingly hire illegals subject to jail time as well as those fines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
But I also want to see if not the guard at the border a massive increase in funding and personel of the BP and a program that requires all current illegals who have been here 5 years or longer to learn english, pay a fine, and reapply for citizenship or be deported and subsiquently jailed all future times they are found in the country after their initial deportation.
I’m English so correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t it the illegal immigrants that take the crap poorly paid jobs that are going.
Personally I would stop worrying about immigrants and try and do something about the gun toting maniacs in the country.
Or you could try to secure the Mexican border and have good practice for Iraqi insurgents.
That is a fallacious argument.
In a supply & demand economy, any job's salary will rise to an optimal price target where the supply and demand curves intersect. Importing cheap labor artificially decreases wages and forces a lower standard of living for everyone. Example:
I am a 22 year old with no skills. I want to work in construction. But, because I live here and have to pay taxes, pay my rent, pay for my own health care, etc, I need to make $15/hour. Now, the construction company I work for doesn't want to pay me that much. They offer me $13. I hold out. They then hire somebody who's willing to work for $11. How? Because he:
-pays no taxes
-uses the health care system knowing that there's no credit report on him to trash
-Buys many of his larger ticket items in Mexico, then has them sent here.
Most importantly, he sends the proceeds of his paycheck home to Mexico. So, if the company had hired me, the money would have been spent by me on taxes and other American industries. Instead, no taxes are paid, government provided services instead of private ones are used, and the currency itself is transmitted out of our economy to Mexico, a net reduction in the country's GDP.
get some skills and you wont have to worry about it
Just fight a boss and level up. :idea2:Quote:
get some skills and you wont have to worry about it
And that is just so ridiculously naive, I had to chuckle. The issue goes beyond the individual, as Don pointed out, and it affects the whole US economy.
You are only address one part of the issue. Any conservation around just employment of illegals misses the major issues concerning the crisis.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieFriedNuts
Most are not worried about immigrants and immigrantion when it follows the proscribed law. Its the illegal immigrantion and the non-enforcement of the current law by the authorities which has made it the crisis that it is.Quote:
Personally I would stop worrying about immigrants and try and do something about the gun toting maniacs in the country.
And this arguement is not about "gun toting" maniacs - or maybe it is, try looking at the crime statistics of some of the border cities. You will get a major dose of reality if you attempt that approach versus the fallacious arguement you have taken here.
:no:Quote:
Or you could try to secure the Mexican border and have good practice for Iraqi insurgents.
What skill can you possess that would be immune to this wage deflation scheme?Quote:
Originally Posted by bettkicker19
Chemical, civil electrical engineering? Nope, China and India has guys with masters degrees that will work for 20% what the going rate is.
Banking? Nope. All moving to China, Singapore and Taiwan.
Business? What makes a stockbroker or an analyst in New York City any better than the ones in Shanghai or Singapore? Every year more and more of financial services moves overseas.
Insurance? Ditto.
Medicine? Nope. India, Middle East.
Law? Believe it or not, even here, there are people with training in law that perform a lot of the research for law firms overseas, but of all professions, this is the one that's probably the most impervious.
At the end of the day, there's nothing that can't be outsourced, and in fact, already IS being outsourced. The illegal immigrant question is just a variation of this, bringing the outsourcing to you.
Something tells me you're not a Carnegie or a Rockefeller or a Kennedy, so you probably can't rely on your family's inherent wealth. Truthfully, neither can I.
It's a viscious cycle, that taken to it's natural conclusion, the way it's already heading mind you, has vast quantities of Americans unemployed.
Funny, I think pretty soon, the border problem will be in the other direction. Now that small amounts of drugs are legal, many people will want to move there, for at least the summer!:laugh4:
Join the army, solid food, pay, and ya get to see the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Zombie: Along the Mexican border, the "gun toting maniacs" I'm worried about are corrupt Mexican soldiers escorting drug dealers into the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieFriedNuts
As for immigration, the pace has been so rapid of late that the country is having trouble assimilating them. Twenty percent of all Americans are, or are the descendents of, immigrants who have arrived since 1960. Historically, the children of immigrants achieved higher levels of education and income than their parents. For Hispanics, this trend has weakened significantly.
I would prefer lower levels of immigration until these problems are alleviated, but I would be satisfied if we would simply make an honest effort to prevent illegal immigration. I'm still stunned that the governor of the State of California had to veto a bill a few years ago which would have allowed illegal immigrants to get a driver's license.
Its time to take out the trash. Deport them.
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Originally Posted by Strike For The South
I'm not gonna bother witha link because its from the 2004-5 Census stats released to the public yesterday, easy enough to find.
The reason I point out the birthrates is soley to emphasize that we are importing vast amounts of poverty by not enforcing immigration law. The Asian population increase is due to legal, documented IMMIGRATION, not someone hopping a fence and then popping out 4 kids so the whole family can become citizens. I do realize that latinos have a tendency for large families with lots of babies, but TBH it only emphasizes the importing povert point more.
Not that this matters tho the situation at hand, but I have an estranged stepfather who is a German immigrant who never declared citizenship the entire 25 years he's been in the US. 6 months shy of age 65 he declared citizenship, and now he receives social security despite never paying into social security. Anyone else see a problem with this?
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Then there is this absoulte gem
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:http://www.americanpatrol.com/
The hammer will fall one day. When this problem comes to a head
They need to be deported as they are illegal. There's not "a bit" illegal, or "some illegal".
That there needs to be a complete reworking of work permits is a completely seperate matter.
For a country that annexed about 1/3 of what was Mexico to complain about Spanish being spoken or hespanics is very amusing.
~:smoking:
About the American annexation, the war that caused it was started by Mexico; those parts annexed had only been part of an independent Mexico for a couple of decades;Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
the peace treaty renounces any rights that Mexico may feel they have to reclaim that land.
And part of the reason why that land and not the whole of Mexico was taken...probably had something to do with the large American population in that area (i.e. non hispanics Americans, to clarify). The land was also sparsely inhabited for the most part, so not many of anyone Englsih, Spanish or "Injun" speaking..
I have lived in San Diego, in the heart of the illegal immigrant flow from Mexico, all my life. I am far from ignorant of the situation. They are a major part of what keeps this city moving. Why? Because it creates a near-slave economy. Lower wages paid to illegal immigrants means greater profits for our tourist industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Anyway, I agree with Idaho's main point, if not maybe the degree. The US laws on immigration have been quite liberal, compared to other large immigrant nations like Australia. I have to admit that. I also say, though, that Idaho is right in that race is a key issue here.
He is also right about the resistence people have had towards immigrants all along. Those same people who were the targets of early anti-immigrant attacks became the attackers later.
I think fighting illegal immigration causes more problems and is more expensive than facing reality and accepting it.