See Tom be Jan.... transgendered children with parent approval...

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

You have to make a decision as a child one way or another, nudity is not allowed.

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So the reason he should rush into getting a sex change is because nudity is a bad thing.

Why isn't nudity allowed? Frost bite? How many fatalities this year from streakers?

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Originally Posted by Goofball

Thats an awful lot of venom for so early in the conversation Dave.

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Pot, let me introduce you to kettle...

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

HE IS 5 YEARS OLD! At 5 I wanted to be a power ranger. Oh well the parents will reap there sick and twisted child in about 13 years. At 5 you know nothing. Disgusting

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I had my first sexual urge at 3 years old. I knew enough then to know that I was into chicks. Is it so impossible to know that you'd rather not be a dude?

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Originally Posted by GoreBag

I had my first sexual urge at 3 years old. I knew enough then to know that I was into chicks. Is it so impossible to know that you'd rather not be a dude?

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:inquisitive: Honestly?

I think the sexual hormones aren't truly active at the time, no?

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

An adult doing this kind of...lifestyle...

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Uncomfortable? ~;)

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

So the reason he should rush into getting a sex change is because nudity is a bad thing.

Why isn't nudity allowed? Frost bite? How many fatalities this year from streakers?

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Maybe I read the article too fast, but I don't remember anything about a sex change. That was in my original response too, they let him dress up like a girl, which is fine by me. Cutting off genitals, isn't.
Most hermaprhodites only get their 'sex determination' surgery when they're teenagers or older, just because it's impossible (or nearly) to tell whether they are actually a boy or a girl inside, and some even change from 'primarily boy' to 'primarily girl' or vice versa.

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

Honestly?

I think the sexual hormones aren't truly active at the time, no?

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I was 4 or 5 when I had my first crush on a girl, that's partly why I'm pretty sure you can't control these things.

Hmm. Liberal or not, I'm pretty suspicious about the whole transgender thing.

Look at it like this; there is a mismatch between your gonads and how your brain thinks. This makes you unhappy. Something has to change. But why it is your gonads? Is it because there are slick surgeons out there wondering what they can do, and a big lobby pushing for victimhood? Does anyone EVER say to someone who feels transgendered that they have TWO options, one to live as the opposite biological gender, the other to try therapy to feel like the gender they are?

I'm not saying either option is better but both seem valid, no? How come we only hear of one? Seems pretty suspicious to me.

And in (not quite) a first, I agree with Dave, I just plain don't believe this five year old is the prime mover behind all this. Besides, a five year old's idea of gender is rather different to a twenty year olds, wouldn't you say? He thinks of being a girl as wearing dresses and playing with ponies, not as, well, you know, adult girl stuff.

Consider that if this was a 5 year old girl who ran about, played football, dressed in boy's stuff, pretended to shoot people, no one would care at all.

People just get tetchy about men not being masculine.

EA said pretty much what I was thinking during the last transgender thread (the 70 year old teacher one)

"A woman trapped in a mans body" - BS, it's a male that thinks he'd rather be female, maybe due to an early psychological deviance, but don't formulate the problem so that it's the body wich is at fault.
Post-op transsexuals will never be women- they can't menstruate, have children and are dependent on female hormone dossages to sustain them. Maybe some people are unable to accept the way they were born and would prefer this over their current existence- but is that all predetermined, or is it partly because the culture of victimhood and non-conformity to the norm that is so prevalent today?
If you want to mutilate yourself to accomodate your self perception, go ahead- it's your body. But a lot of people, me included will think of you as weird. Then again, I don't suppose they care.

Oh yeah, about the 5 year old: he doesn't know what he's talking about at all, and I suspect that his parents talked him into saying stuff like that. Kids that age don't understand sexuality enough to be confused abou it.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Pot, let me introduce you to kettle...

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I note that you didn't respond to any of the questions I asked.

Whassa matta Dave? Did Andrew Dice Clay & Rush Limbaugh's Big Book of Rebuttal come up short?

:laugh4:

Just going to throw my two cents in ...

No-one under the age of, say, sixteen should be allowed to make a decision this big. If the kid turns out to be a full-blown transsexual at a later date, fine, but offering a lot of "support" at the tender age of five seems like madness. If the kid wants to dress up like a girl, fine. Lots of little kids do gender play like that. They're exploring what it means to be a boy or a girl. It does not mean that they need gender reassignment.

And yes, it does sound like the mother has an agenda. Kids are fairly malleable, and it wouldn't take too much for her to turn normal childhood gender play into a full-blown crisis.

In fairness, though, this is hardly the worst child abuse story one can find. I know DD posted the story because he has a specific agenda about gays, TGs, liberals and how evil they are, and that's fine and dandy. But don't forget that there are far more evil things being done to children in the U.S.A., which don't fall so neatly into the left v. right puppet game.

Its really rather telling that the parents allowed the media to come into their house and do a story on this.

This leads me to the conclusion that its not just the child wanting to be a girl.

The article is heavily biased and definitely supports an agenda, this doesn't mean the parents have one too. And once again, NO ONE said the kid should have surgery...

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Originally Posted by Redleg

Its really rather telling that the parents allowed the media to come into their house and do a story on this.

This leads me to the conclusion that its not just the child wanting to be a girl.

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Bleh, they could have tricked, a newspaper saying they will write a 'positive' story about the whole affair and that it might highten their chances of their kid going to school in a dress.

Or they mught have been threatened. A lor of journalist threaten people in to telling their story by telling them they will write it anyway, possibly without altered names.

Why would anyone want their child to be gender confused ? That's just insane :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by BDC

Consider that if this was a 5 year old girl who ran about, played football, dressed in boy's stuff, pretended to shoot people, no one would care at all.

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Very good point. A lot young girls want to be boys, they grow out of it. Of course, a girl wearing pants and having short hair is nothing special...But a boy puts on a dress and every conservative is up in arms. :wall:

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Originally Posted by Goofball

Let me ask you this:

Out of these two hypothetical people, who do you think is more likely to end up on drugs, depressed, with an STD and suicidal:

1) Heterosexual with two alcoholic parents who is abused from a young age who never has any friends because he never really developed any social skills

or

2) Homosexual with two supportive parents who grows up in an accepting family and has lots of friends who don't treat him like a freak because he is gay.

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The hetero will more than likely have the drug and depression issue and the homo will probably have the STD and drug issue. Both will have a higher chance of suicide than a child that is hetero and has loving parents. There are way too many factors in your hypothetical persons to predict their futures. Nice try though, but no matter what you can't argue the CDC's statistics on STD rates among homosexuals compared to heteros. Not only higher percentage rates of STD's, but drug and alcohol abuse, and suicides. But when you have you head so firmly planted in your own sanctimonious backside, I guess it would be hard to understand reality.

Now that I've answered your questions, maybe you should do the same for the countless times you have simply avoided answering most questions asked of you and simply gave silly responses. I know you're going to be an officer, so maybe you're just simply working on your schtick. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

So the reason he should rush into getting a sex change is because nudity is a bad thing.

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Hey, no one said anything about a sex change. I'm not in favor of sex changes, just deal with what you've got. My point was the child has to make a decision to dress somehow, if he can decide to dress in boys clothes he is capable of deciding to dress in girls clothes.

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Originally Posted by BDC

Consider that if this was a 5 year old girl who ran about, played football, dressed in boy's stuff, pretended to shoot people, no one would care at all.

People just get tetchy about men not being masculine.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

The hetero will more than likely have the drug and depression issue and the homo will probably have the STD and drug issue.

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If women were as easy as (gay) men, we'd all have the same risk of getting STDs though... :oops:

As for the drugs, I know more straigth people who do drugs, so unless you can produce convincing statistics here...

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

If women were as easy as (gay) men, we'd all have the same risk of getting STDs though... :oops:

As for the drugs, I know more straigth people who do drugs, so unless you can produce convincing statistics here...

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http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS01B1
http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1422547/posts
http://www.royy.com/pap.html
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/pdf..._lifestyle.pdf
http://teenadvice.about.com/cs/homosexuality/
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/7-18-2004-56789.asp
http://ams.cu.edu.tr/January2001Vol10No1/suicide.htm

Here's some different sites. Some of the sites states that the reasons for this phenominom is because its the heteros fault for making the homosexuals feel like outcastes and some sites say that it just goes with the territory. All give different reasons for homosexuals having higher percentages of drug and alcohol abuse. But there is a high percentage within the community that abuse substances and that can't be argues, no matter how much you want to paint it with the politically correct, all forgiving paint brush. But that's not the topic.

By the way, I also don't think it is a matter of being "easy" as you put it Doc. Its more the "risky" types of sexual activities that homosexual perform with each other that run the risk of STD's higher than that of "normal" sexual contact. I hope that you don't need me to explain any deeper because I'm sure with your "progressive" mindset, you should have a good idea of what I'm talking about.

This child has a lifetime of misery ahead of him/her/it especially when the parents are contributing to him/her/its delusions.

And there's the issue of pregnancy- gay men don't have that risk and this leads to less inclination to condom use.

I "know" a girl who has syphilis, kept being the [4 letter bad word for sexually very active woman] she always was, and then contracted gonorroe too. :inquisitive:
Strangely, though I know a couple of gay guys I never hear about STDs among gays.

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

Bleh, they could have tricked, a newspaper saying they will write a 'positive' story about the whole affair and that it might highten their chances of their kid going to school in a dress.

Or they mught have been threatened. A lor of journalist threaten people in to telling their story by telling them they will write it anyway, possibly without altered names.

Why would anyone want their child to be gender confused ? That's just insane :dizzy2:

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Again, the article covers why they did the story. The parents were convinced to speak to a reporter by a female-male transexual activist that they had sought out and contacted.

Dave, I'm walking out the door righ now so I will respond to the meat of your post later, but I felt in necessary to comment on this bit now:

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

maybe you're just simply working on your schtick. :laugh4:

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I only do that in the privacy of my own home, never at the office...

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

I should become a liberal so i can blame all my misgivings on everyone else.

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It is my impression that you already do that, Dave.

Now to lighten things up, here's the fitting America-bashing

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

blah blah blah ...

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frc: defending family FAITH and freedom
narth national association for research and THERAPY FOR HOMOSEXUALITY

:sigh: I'm not going to even look at the rest, have any UNBIASED sources ?

Look Dave, people don't get STDs from being gay, they get them from promiscusous and unsafe sex. I'll admit that gay men are probably more likely to engage in such an activity (because they can !), but that's an indirect connection at most. I know some gay people in very stable relationships who don't sleep around, I know some guys who screw a few different girls a month. Who do you think would sooner catch an STD ?

About the drug use: main gay subculture is one of PARTY !!! I'd like to see a comparison between people with similar lifestyles, say ravers, or even frat boys, then we can compare apples and apples...
And once again, just because you're gay doesn't mean you have to be a total queen, some gay people are actually surprisingly 'normal', not to into partying, not hitting on random guys or sleeping around, actively involved in the community. These people don't parade (pun intended) around as often and hence, not much attention is payed to them, but they might just be the silent majority.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Again, the article covers why they did the story. The parents were convinced to speak to a reporter by a female-male transexual activist that they had sought out and contacted.

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So the worried parents tried to inform themselves and got caught in somebody else's agenda, it still doesn't mean they *want* their child to be a transgender, not by a long shot...

Now, to me it sounds like this mother is way too early with introducing her kids to sexuality and the human body. Compare it to someone showing his little son a gew pics of hiroshima victims and explaining the process of death and so on in detail, closely followed by Auschwitz...

Death and sexuality are things young kids should not have to bother about, they will come across these things early enough.

Besides, I get the impression from this thread that people who have kids are more likely to not support this than people without kids. One could think that everything is fine with you, as long as you are not affected.

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Originally Posted by Doc_bean

So the worried parents tried to inform themselves and got caught in somebody else's agenda, it still doesn't mean they *want* their child to be a transgender, not by a long shot...

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So they went to a transgender activist? Makes sense...

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

:sigh: I'm not going to even look at the rest, have any UNBIASED sources ?


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Well since you basically said that I said was "blah, blah, blah" when most of those articles used the CDC as a reference, then look the statistics up yourself...
http://www.cdc.gov/
Its all there. Enjoy...

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Originally Posted by BDC

Consider that if this was a 5 year old girl who ran about, played football, dressed in boy's stuff, pretended to shoot people, no one would care at all.

People just get tetchy about men not being masculine.

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Some reason I got an image of playing with dolls creating a more masculine man... seemed to work for the Duke...

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Well since you basically said that I said was "blah, blah, blah" when most of those articles used the CDC as a reference, then look the statistics up yourself...
http://www.cdc.gov/
Its all there. Enjoy...

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Yeah, I accidentaly deleted all of your post and was to lazy to copy/paste, sorry about that.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

So they went to a transgender activist? Makes sense...

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:sigh: We'll never know exactly what happened will we ? But can you honestly imagine parents wanting/forcing their child to be a transgender ? :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Sounds like the mom and dad have allowed the liberal deviants of the transgendered mentally ill movement sink their claws into their child.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

I should become a liberal so i can blame all my misgivings on everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Liberals

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I think I know what the real issue is here......

They're isnt anything in the article which links them liberalism except that you don't like them.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

What 2 year old uses words like "penis" and "vagina".

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I recall using willie and peach from about that age (although I found them hilarious along with poop)...Children are aware of the thing that lies between their legs, using terms for them isnt particulary bizzare except to mollycoddling parents.


My opinion is that the child has female gender identity while I'll admit it's unusual to have him/her displaying it at such a young age I have no moral outrage assuming that this is something the child has come to on his (her?) own accord.

From a practical veiwpoint I'd recomend that they conceal that he's a boy to avoid the social stigma and if he feels the same way around the time of puberty start him on the hormones in preparation for full transition (avoidence of male gender Sexual dimorphism).

On a side note dave how do you feel about teens who want to change genders......or adults for that matter?

It's funny how the right always bangs on about personal responsibility and personal freedoms and then insists on gays changing becouse they don't like them:dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by doc_bean

:sigh: We'll never know exactly what happened will we ? But can you honestly imagine parents wanting/forcing their child to be a transgender ? :dizzy2:

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Can you honestly imagine parents killing their children, raping their children, abusing their children in other ways? Well, it happens.:wall:

Not to mention parents pretending that their kid is sick, by keeping them such and/or convincing the kid that he's sick. Pretty disturbing but things like that happen.