Medieval 2: Total War Designer Diary #1 - Introducing the New Diplomatic System

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Originally Posted by Rufus

And how about a "Make Demand" option for, "Get the h*#@! out of my kingdom!" for when the troops of a faction you're not at war with just sort of show up within your borders, and you don't want to attack them because you don't want full-out war.

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Another one: "Stop attacking our friend, ______!!!!"

Sounds really good.

I think some of you are wrong when you say there is nothing to indicate that Diplomacy will be usefull and affect the game. I think this implies that:

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Originally Posted by http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?page=/en/medieval2/gameinfo/developerdiary.html&nav=/en/medieval2/1/4/

AI factions can now have their view towards you altered in degrees. This means the player’s behaviour in diplomacy will actually effect what they have to face in their campaign.

We then applied the same philosophy of exposing a shift in stance from the actual act of diplomacy, out into the whole faction relations system that tracks what every faction thinks of every other faction. When things either break down between two factions, or relations improve – the player is notified.

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I also think that a knowledge of how strong an alliance is will help us to know if we really can expect any help or if they are just waiting to betray us. I think this will clarify a lot of the seemingly random behavior.


In any case, I hope so.

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Originally Posted by Ituralde

Don't know what to make of that last statement though. Does it mean that the diplomacy sytem will be easily moddable or does it mean that they will test and tune and once they realize that they've run out of time hope that the modding community can continue their work? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi

It reads to me that it will be possible to mod the diplomatic speeches.

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Again, I'm not sure you right:

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and then… tuning and testing – Something that the mod community may well also be able to dabble in without too much issue.

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To me it reads the mod community may be asked to help with tuning and testing. I don't know how you could think this is a bad thing Ituralde... It's something I beg CA to carry out. A small hand picked group of testers, who have experience of how the totalwar series works in detail would be a great thing.

Well, I guess that would be the third interpretation for that sentence and that's exactly why I didn't quite get its meaning. I was just throwing a couple of random guesses there, which does not mean that I believe in any of them.
My hope is though, that they meant the easy modability with that statement.
And while I agree with you that working with some mod-members would certainly benefit the game, I think there are better ways to communicate a mod-maker beta-test than hiding it in such cryptic lines.

Cheers!

Ituralde

For all of you worried that Ca are just focusing on graphical touch ups to diplomacy and not improving the core ai:

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In Medieval II, the AI will not only remember previous dealings you've had with it but your dealings with other factions, too. It'll then base its stance towards you on all of those factors.

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We're making the campaign map AI far more proactive than before. You'll find that your homeland will be attacked a lot more.

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What's more, once your medieval empire becomes overwhelmingly powerful, you'll quickly find your rivals rallying together to oppose your expanding kingdom, a feature which the team hopes will make the game challenging from beginning to end

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http://www.computerandvideogames.com...42571&skip=yes

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Talking of the campaign map, there are new agents, improved diplomacy, and improved trade, as well as a host of new buildings added to the tech tree; new sabotage and espionage options,

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http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/m...4512&page=2&q=

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The diplomacy system has been improved. We're going to give the player a lot more information about how the artificial intelligence feels both about them and about the offer on the table. However, at the same time the AI will take offence at insulting offers and will have a better memory of past dealings. You should be able to trust your allies, but only up to a point.

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We're definitely committed to improving the AI on both the campaign map and battlefield and plan to make a significant step forward from Rome.

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http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/m...ml?sid=6146146

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We've also introduced a new recruitment system, a new enhanced system for the treatment of religion, enhanced diplomacy, new trade options, improved missions, improved sabotage and espionage, improved AI, new tech tree buildings and new agent characters.

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http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/699/699515p1.html

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And while I agree with you that working with some mod-members would certainly benefit the game, I think there are better ways to communicate a mod-maker beta-test than hiding it in such cryptic lines.

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That is very true, but here's hoping...

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

I also think that a knowledge of how strong an alliance is will help us to know if we really can expect any help or if they are just waiting to betray us. I think this will clarify a lot of the seemingly random behavior.

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That depends. As Doug-Thompson's post that is now making my sig says, the problem of the diplomatic behavior of the AI was not just that it was acting randomly but that it was acting insanely. Degrees of strength of an alliance make only sense if the AI doesn't complete ignore it. In ROME the AI often could not resist blocking a port if it had a fleet at hand. The AI could often gain nothing of it and it broke alliances that were profitable just to seek a ceasefire in the next round. Knowledge about how strong the alliance is doesn't help if alliances are at risk due to obsessive-compulsive behavior.

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Originally Posted by Rufus

And how about a "Make Demand" option for, "Get the h*#@! out of my kingdom!" for when the troops of a faction you're not at war with just sort of show up within your borders, and you don't want to attack them because you don't want full-out war.

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Its always puzzled me that this option wasn't in RTW. If this request is made a diplomatic option in M2RW, I think it should NOT be considered highly offensive or very "demanding" of the faction it is being directed at. I'm sure the computer's seemingly pointless habit of marching their armies all through their neutral neighbors' territory was due to poor AI, so I think that M2TW should at least fix that problem or allow the player (and other factions) the option of requesting their removal when it happens, if not both.

If the computer has a legitimate reason to want to cross my borders that has nothing to do with attacking me, they should make a request for military access and be willing to offer something in return for it. Obviously, what they're willing to exchange should depend on how important is to them that they cross my borders without starting a war. Furthermore, I think that having troops inside the borders of a faction whom you have no military access with should automaticly weaken your relationship with that faction every turn you keep them inside. Its just not polite.

I agree. The "Transgressions" in RTW were useless, and there was no point in asking for military access.

I'm flattered, A. Saturnus. :bow:

Transgressions resulted in them declaring war on me a few times, I can't exactly call that useless. As Romans I sometimes ask for military access if one of the senate missions is for some far away city that I have to get to fast.

It would be nice to be able to force their troops to leave your area if you send your diplomat to them. Usually perfectly good alliances are broken because the AI troops "felt like it" when they were next to your capital. Ouch.

It sounds well. However I will wait and see how the dilomacy acts...

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For all of you worried that Ca are just focusing on graphical touch ups to diplomacy and not improving the core ai:


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In Medieval II, the AI will not only remember previous dealings you've had with it but your dealings with other factions, too. It'll then base its stance towards you on all of those factors.



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We're making the campaign map AI far more proactive than before. You'll find that your homeland will be attacked a lot more.

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So basically, it sounds the same as in RTW - except this time the AI will remember your previous actions towards you, then decide to attack you anyway. The current RTW PBEM game in the Throne Room is a prime example of this, totally suicidal behaviour by the AI, 1 and 2 province factions launching attacks on Rome.

I hope the AI is smarter, I really, really do. But having everyone declare war on you is not IMO the best way to make the mid-late game more challenging.

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Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

I'm flattered, A. Saturnus. :bow:

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I fail to see the correlation between 'sanity' and 'Total War'...:inquisitive:
An insane world calls for insane measures:wall: