Re : Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
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Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
I just dislike the way Britain is portrayed as being anti-European and Eurosceptical and yet at the same time we are willing to make this grand commitment to European integration even at our own expense.
I get it now. But you see, those are two different things. The UK simply is Eurosceptical. It is also one of the most respected EU members, known for its thrustworthininess and for sticking to what it agreed upon.
Maybe the first does lead some to overlook the second. That would be a rightful reason for British indignation then. I do not now how widespread this misconception is, the notion that Britains scepticism means it is not a good member state. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that to a large extend this is only a British misconception about a rather limited notion on the continent.
As for the rest of your post, quoted below, I think a good deal depends on one's opinion about labour migration from the new member states. You think that the UK is carrying the burden of the latest expansion. I on the other hand am dissapointed that we are missing out on a lot of skilled, hard-working or highly educated East-European workers. We got pwnd by Britain and Ireland in this respect - through no coincidence currently the two most dynamic EU economies. And we've got nobody but ourselves to blaim.
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I don't think there would be such a vast immigration problem to Britain if the other member nations had agreed to this policy - since the Eastern European economic migrants would be spread throughout Western Europe. There's no reason why if they could that migrant workers wouldn't work elsewhere, but because they can't, they're forced to come to Britain to seek a better life. I don't blame them, they're not breaking the law. However, many Slovenians, especially on the border, would love to be able to work in Italy and many Italian employers would love to employ them but cannot. Why doesn't the rest of Europe get into the spirit of things? Otherwise leave our rebate alone and let us keep the pound.
Britain is a small country. It's population just hit 60,000,000. It's a question of size. We just can't handle such rapid expansion - our infrastructure is stretched as it is. I'm not anti-immigration - I'm just thinking about the national interest. I'm not afraid of immigrants taking my job because I know I'm the best damn qualified person to do it and if there's someone better willing to try and do it for less money he can bring it on.
Re : Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
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Originally Posted by Brenus
I much prefer the UK's keen economic sense”: Last survey shows the English want to leave England as soon they can. I work in England, I don’t know for France, I don’t live there for now more than 15 years, but in England we are taxed heavily for every think and it became pure extortion. Two years ago, a bus ticket was 0.90 Pound, now 1.5 Pound. Price of houses just rocket sky, rent same thing. Food is very expensive, as much that is now better to go to Calais for shopping. In one trip, your make benefit. My young British colleagues won’t be able to buy their first house, salaries are just misery… I am NOT on the lowest income and my salary covers the rent and the local Council taxes… That is the reality… My wife works, still one daughter to take care, we are just surviving…:wall:
The average UK couple in debts about 3000 Pounds. People survive on loan and credit cards… The New Labour, following Thatcher, sold all England to the riches, and now we pay inefficient but privatise services… :2thumbsup:
I was refering to Britains keen economic sense in this respect, concerning migrant workers. But yes, I do think we could do with a bit more Anglosaxon neo-liberalism. I see the shortcomings of their system, and am not willing to swap. But when they come over to Calais for a cheap shopping trip and save enough on a weeks grocery shopping to pay for the trip you know something is horribly wrong. We used to go to Spain for that, remember? Now people are coming over to us.
Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
There is a massive advantage to workers when they can travel around... it will make the companies have to compete fare more for skilled workers.
Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
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As for the rest of your post, quoted below, I think a good deal depends on one's opinion about labour migration from the new member states. You think that the UK is carrying the burden of the latest expansion. I on the other hand am dissapointed that we are missing out on a lot of skilled, hard-working or highly educated East-European workers. We got pwnd by Britain and Ireland in this respect - through no coincidence currently the two most dynamic EU economies. And we've got nobody but ourselves to blaim.
I agree it works both ways - I guess I just never thought about things from your perspective - your view does make a lot of sense. I think the problem is we just weren't expecting/wanting quite so many immigrants. The expression too much of a good thing comes to mind...
Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
'Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
And the pope is a catholic, anyone suprised or something?
Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
Not at that post anyway.
Anyone know what its like in Poland? In all seriousness, you can't get a plumber or a barman in London now without them being Polish (which I don't care about so long as my bathroom is fixed and my beer poured) but the loss of about 0.5 million young taxpayers from the economy must be causing real problems over there. According to my favourite source (the CIA world factbook) the working age population of Poland is about 26-27 million, so that's about 2% gone more or less overnight, give or take.
Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
The fact that there are so many Polish plumbers is worrying, because it means there aren't any English plumbers. This is the real problem we have over here.
All those people who were plumbers, carpenters, brickies and whatever else are now just growing up to be hoody-wearing chavs. Actually I knew a chav, about the only one in my area, he became a plumber.
The real problem Britain has here is that only 20% of the population are making a net contribution to the treasury. That means the Civil Service and Public Service sectors are too expensive and that wages are too low.
That's why everything is so expensive, Labour is revving the economy by creating more and more Public Sector jobs. We're going to end up like Scandanavia, without any of the benefits.
Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
So what do you want to know about Poland ?
That a worker is prepared to travel for two days (hitch hiking) to get to an interview for a job. That the quality of the worker far outways the same people in the UK.
Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
I knew that.
There's the problem you see, the British lower class (oh, how un PC) have become a load of lazy scroungers.
Re: Four out of five migrants 'take more from economy than they put back'
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Originally Posted by English assassin
Not at that post anyway.
Anyone know what its like in Poland? In all seriousness, you can't get a plumber or a barman in London now without them being Polish (which I don't care about so long as my bathroom is fixed and my beer poured) but the loss of about 0.5 million young taxpayers from the economy must be causing real problems over there. According to my favourite source (the CIA world factbook) the working age population of Poland is about 26-27 million, so that's about 2% gone more or less overnight, give or take.
Not really, unemployement in this age group is pretty high. True that certain companies have problems in finding people - no wonder if you can earn 5 times more abroad you take the opportunity - but it has little impact on economy. In fact it will give much profit to both sides in the end.
The topic's title is pretty stupid. It is obviously not true. Every worker in the UK payes taxes and has little desire to be tortured by the crappy NHS.
I was for one year in the NI so I know how it is.
Overall it is pretty simple people travel to the UK to work in places waiting for them ('booked' by their friends) or find one there. They rent a house and spend 2-3 years on avarage. In the end come back with the money they were able to earn and spare.
There is no desire to 'exploit' the NHS or anything else. The jobs taken by those people have little interest among 'the natives' and the cash they spend on food, clothes, travelling or to rent a living space.
I was working in a press distribution company so I had time to read enough British papers - the Mail or other tabloids are far from being reliable.
If you want to talk about wasting huge amounts of money - you should check other places.:laugh4:
