th anniversary of 9/11 passes in the Backroom with nary a mention

This is a forum. I thought that people expressing and explaining their views on topics was to be expected, and I don't really see why someone would get down because of disagreed choices of music...

Kanamori, I'm simply questioning the motive and the manner in which our views are sometimes expressed. If these threads were taking place in person, I think most of us would be a little more courteous to each other. Over the years, we've had patrons tell us that they have lost loved ones. We all express sympathy. Yet judging by some of the replies in this thread, it would be perfectly acceptable to post "Sorry dude, but people die every day. Get over it." Even if someone felt that way, most human beings would be respectful enough not to post such a thing. I'm asking that we consider applying the same reasoning to other, perhaps less personal, events, be it September 11, the London or Madrid bombing, or any other of the seemingly countless tragedies in our world. Some people are affected by these events more than others. Let's show them a little sympathy or at least some courtesy.

As for "getting down" when discussing music, if a group of people are enjoying a discussion on a topic of mutual interest like their favourite band, why would you pop in on that discussion just to tell them you dislike that band? How do you think they would feel about the interruption/disruption of an enjoyable discussion they were having? I think most of us would shake our heads and move on.

I didn't think it would be apreciated. Since no american made one I assumed you guys just wanted to let it rest.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I didn't think it would be apreciated. Since no american made one I assumed you guys just wanted to let it rest.

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same here

I wouldn't say we want to let it rest, but some of us are used to being more private with our grief. The way 9/11 has been exploited by the media and completely abused by politicians has me somewhat soured on the whole thing. Mourning and/or remembering with dignity and class is just not possible at the moment in the current atmosphere. Maybe in 10 years.

Gregoshi has the best point, posting something about it here in the Backroom would only lead to a flame-fest. Although rotorgun's thread got no replies at all... :inquisitive:

Anyone that says it doesn’t affect them or that it was just another day is full of it. 9/11 was the day that made the US wake-up to its situation. Anyone that thought that the US stuck its nose into the worlds business before 9/11 should be exasperated by our involvement now. The action/reactions started by the 9/11 attacks will be felt for generations, there is no more significant event that I have seen or think I will see in my lifetime, it changed the way the US operates and that effects the world.


A profound day, but not one that needed a memorial in the backroom.

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Originally Posted by drone

I wouldn't say we want to let it rest, but some of us are used to being more private with our grief. The way 9/11 has been exploited by the media and completely abused by politicians has me somewhat soured on the whole thing. Mourning and/or remembering with dignity and class is just not possible at the moment in the current atmosphere. Maybe in 10 years.

Gregoshi has the best point, posting something about it here in the Backroom would only lead to a flame-fest. Although rotorgun's thread got no replies at all... :inquisitive:

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There wasn't much to add to rotorgun's post. The best way to commemorate events like 9/11 is to nail the b******s who did it, stop anything of the sort from happening again, and celebrate the victory.

My sympathies.

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

For shame. :shame:

I was at work the whole day, and come back to see that not a single comment has been made in recognition of 9/11. No prayers for families, no compassion for U.S. Citizens, not even an American-originated tribute. Sure, the day is in the minds of those who remember the victims and what America lost on that day. But still, an anniversary discussion is in order.

Remembering September 11th, 2001
https://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3002/sunriseig9.jpg

Five years have passed since the single largest terrorist attack in the history of the world. On that day, the national consciousness of the United States changed. It may have been for a few years or America may have been changed forever- only history can tell. But instead of reflecting on what has occurred since 9/11, or discuss American policy abroad, or speculate on the future, it would serve best to simply discuss the lives of the people who died on that day.

We honor the brave public servants, who risked their lives running into the world trade center. We think of the courage of those citizens who sacrificed their own lives on flight 93, rather than allow other Americans to perish in an additional attack. And we mourn the loss of mothers, fathers, children, sisters, brothers, and grandparents; innocent freedom-loving people who's only crime was being an American.

On that day, 3,030 people perished between Flight 93, Flight 11, Flight 77, Flight 175, the Pentagon, and the World Trade Center.

It was a day of national tragedy. It was a day of pain. And it was a day of awakening.

Let us never forget all of those victims. Cherish the memory of those towers, honor the sacrifice of flight 93 and our public servants, and mourn the loss of our freedom-loving countrymen.

https://img161.imageshack.us/img161/8201/hy0838ln3.jpg

https://img161.imageshack.us/img161/...aversmllr9.jpg

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That's because that- that right there- what you are doing- is TACKY AS HELL. :stare:

It's just like Christmas. A man went through a life of physical and mental pain, fear, uncertainty and anguish, a man who had to constantly fight off a bronze vulture that latched itself to his head every time he did something God disliked and dug its claws into his skull until he bled, a man who underwent starvation of every kind, a man who was tortured constantly by the thoughts that he was responsible for his mother's pain, his father's crippled state and the fact that the woman he loved became a whore because he could not show he loved her, a man who was forced to ask his closest friend and greatest disciple to betray him so that he would be nailed to a plank of wood and left to die of starvation and exposure over a period of several DAYS, is celebrated by cheap, tacky commercialism and a big fat idiot in a red suit. **** Christmas.

So shut up about the 11th of September and let us remember it silently.

I think it is perfectly possible to publicly commemorate 9/11 with dignity. Public commemoration does not automatically mean turning this into Christmas (although this certainly supports your point, Zorba).

Personally, I do not feel that e.g., the Hiroshima commemoration in Japan is "tacky" and for some a more public commemoration might be a more helpful way to cope with the issue than doing so in private or silently.
Nobody should be "peer-pressured" into public mourning though - this would rather "desecrate" the commemoration, IMHO

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Originally Posted by Zorba

That's because that- that right there- what you are doing- is TACKY AS HELL. :stare:

It's just like Christmas. A man went through a life of physical and mental pain, fear, uncertainty and anguish, a man who had to constantly fight off a bronze vulture that latched itself to his head every time he did something God disliked and dug its claws into his skull until he bled, a man who underwent starvation of every kind, a man who was tortured constantly by the thoughts that he was responsible for his mother's pain, his father's crippled state and the fact that the woman he loved became a whore because he could not show he loved her, a man who was forced to ask his closest friend and greatest disciple to betray him so that he would be nailed to a plank of wood and left to die of starvation and exposure over a period of several DAYS, is celebrated by cheap, tacky commercialism and a big fat idiot in a red suit. **** Christmas.

So shut up about the 11th of September and let us remember it silently.

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For me christman means lot's of food, why not let Divinus Arma honor those that lost their lives the way he thinks is right. Now it's you giving it more meaning.

me, I still close my eyes when those planes hit the building.

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

Personally, I do not feel that e.g., the Hiroshima commemoration in Japan is "tacky" and for some a more public commemoration might be a more helpful way to cope with the issue than doing so in private or silently.
Nobody should be "peer-pressured" into public mourning though - this would rather "desecrate" the commemoration, IMHO

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I dont see the purpose in public commemoration, the dead are dead. and any mourning is purely symbolic, repeating it each year, or even 10 years only serves to remind people of the horror of the event, and, although my phycology isnt great, i suspect can be more upsetting than comforting...
like a funeral it should be about celebrating the lives rather than mourning the loss of them.
(in the case of 9/11 it shows the terrorists the huge efect they had on america, and encourages them)
Im not daying forget about these events, but surely a more low-key, private remembrance is better for all, perhaps not including politicians etc who tend to turn the events into cheap publicity, or simply a tourist attraction...

christmas is a good example of how modern society changes an iconic event into a party....although i think a lot of christians take christmas more seriously than the high-street shops show...

note- i mean no disrespect to the dead when i say this, its just my opinion (i also dont necessarily mean this post, just public mourning in general)

I'm going to copy Dave Barry's column from that week. For those out of America, he's a Pulitzer Prize (for social commentary) winning columnist.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

JUST FOR BEING AMERICANS . . .

By DAVE BARRY, Herald Columnist

No humor column today. I don't want to write it, and you don't want to read
it.

No words of wisdom, either. I wish I were wise enough to say something that
would help make sense of this horror, something that would help ease the
unimaginable pain of the victims' loved ones, but I'm not that wise. I'm
barely capable of thinking. Like many others, I've spent the hours since
Tuesday morning staring at the television screen, sometimes crying,
sometimes furious, but mostly just stunned.

What I can't get out of my mind is the fact that they used our own planes. I
grew up in the Cold War, when we always pictured the threat as coming in the
form of missiles - sleek, efficient death machines, unmanned, hurtling over
the North Pole from far away. But what came, instead, were our own
commercial airliners, big friendly flying buses coming from Newark and
Boston with innocent people on board. Red, white and blue planes, with
``United'' and ``American'' written on the side. The planes you've flown in
and I've flown in. That's what they used to attack us. They were able to do
it in part because our airport security is pathetic. But mainly they were
able to do it because we are an open and trusting society that simply is not
set up to cope with evil men, right here among us, who want to kill as many
Americans as they can.

That's what's so hard to comprehend: They want us to die just for being
Americans. They don't care which Americans die: military Americans, civilian
Americans, young Americans, old Americans. Baby Americans. They don't care.
To them, we're all mortal enemies. The truth is that most Americans, until
Tuesday, were only dimly aware of their existence, and posed no threat to them.
But that doesn't matter to them; all that matters is that we're
Americans. And so they used our own planes to kill us.

And then their supporters celebrated in the streets.

I'm not naive about my country. My country is definitely not always right;
my country has at times been terribly wrong. But I know this about
Americans: We don't set out to kill innocent people. We don't cheer when
innocent people die.

A DECENT PEOPLE

The people who did this to us are monsters; the people who cheered them have
hate-sickened minds. One reason they can cheer is that they know we would never
do to them what their heroes did to us, even though we could, a
thousand times worse. They know that when we hunt down the monsters, we will try
hard not to harm the innocent. Those are the handcuffs we willingly
wear, because for all our flaws, we are a decent people.

And now we are a traumatized people. The TV commentators keep saying that
the attacks have awakened a ``sleeping giant.'' And I guess we do look like
a giant, to the rest of the world. But when I look around, I don't see a
giant: I see millions of individuals - the resilient and caring citizens of
New York and Washington; the incredibly brave firefighters, police officers
and rescue workers risking their lives in the dust and flames; the
politicians standing on the steps of the Capitol and singing an off-key
rendition of God Bless America that, corny as it was, had me weeping; the
reporters and photographers who have not slept, and will not sleep, as long
as there is news to report; the people in my community, and communities
across America, lining up to give blood, wishing they could do more.

A GOOD COUNTRY

No, I don't see a giant. What I see is Americans. We may have the power of a
giant, but we also have the heart of a good and generous people, and we will
get through this. We will grieve for our dead, and tend to our wounded, and
repair the damage, and tighten our security, and put our planes back in the
air. Eventually most of us, the ones lucky enough not to have lost somebody,
will resume our lives. Some day, our country will track down the rest of the
monsters behind this, and make them pay, and I suppose that will make most
of us feel a little better. But revenge and hatred won't be why we'll go on.
We'll go on because we know this is a good country, a country worth keeping.

Those who would destroy it only make us see more clearly how precious it is.

RIP, all those who died. May Justice be done.

Crazed Rabbit

9/11: why celebrate?

For starters may I say I barely noticed the day passing. Just like 9/11, nothing in my world altered.

So why the fuss? Probably a heady mix of something affecting America's homeland, it happening to the very well heeled, it affecting the economy and loads of media close to hand.

The masacare of 500,000 Ruwandans? Oh, I forget - that's an "incident". Iraq / Afghanastan / Lebanon / Loads of others... Not noticed - and yes there will be no commemeration.

This isn't America bashing. The farce that was the Dianna funeral was nauseating in the outpouring of "grief" for this 2 dimensional cardboard cutout of a person. I felt sorry for the Princes who not ony lost a mother, but had such a Eastendersesque parody of her paraded around the UK.

If you want to grieve - fine. Just let's not forget it wasn't the end of the planet OK? Try to keep some perspective.

~:smoking:

Divinus Arma,

I did honor those who died on 9/11 with a thread posted as The reading of the names, which no one has responded too in any way yet. Perhaps I should have entitled it differently, but didn't want to be pretentios about things.

You are correct for calling it to our attention, even though there are many who obviously do not share our pain. I do not hold them any grudge for this, as each is entitled to his own thoughts about such things.

Thanks for your thoughtfulness,

I have to apologize DA, for making such a brass post in a remembrance thread.

I understand why 9/11 is such an emotional topic for many Americans, though I don't understand why this whole "collective grief" thing goes so deep.
The bottom line is, that while I view the USA as a mostly decent country (I really do), it's a distant country to me, and one with a very different mindset compared to me or my countrymen.
I hope you can understand that I won't single out 9/11/01 from all other disasters by creating my own thread about it, as if those 3,030 people (may they rest in peace) are somehow more special then others.

I was on the phones on the 11th and I expected to get more irate commentary from indignant Yanks than usual, but I didn't. I heard what I thought was the footage marathon on CNN in the background once, though (which is, by the by, hilarious).

Whatever. For shame my balls.

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Originally Posted by Zorba

a man who was forced to ask his closest friend and greatest disciple to betray him so that he would be nailed to a plank of wood and left to die of starvation and exposure over a period of several DAYS, is celebrated by cheap, tacky commercialism and a big fat idiot in a red suit. **** Christmas.

So shut up about the 11th of September and let us remember it silently.

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Christ's death... thats Easter.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Christ's death... thats Easter.

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So we mourn Jesus' death with chocolate eggs and bunny rabbits instead. So much more dignified than fat men in red suits.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

So we mourn Jesus' death with chocolate eggs and bunny rabbits instead. So much more dignified than fat men in red suits.

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You're clearly not a Christian.. Im hoping.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

You're clearly not a Christian.. Im hoping.

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I'm British. See Banquo's quote.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

You're clearly not a Christian.. Im hoping.

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Why would a true christian not be pissed off about how we celebrate Christmas and Easter? Giant bunnies and hobos in red parkas- what the hell, man? :dizzy2:

Oh, come on. Does that really need to be explained to you?

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Originally Posted by Gregoshi

Your mother's words of wisdom do sometimes even apply here at the Org. Not all topics need to be debated. If someone is feeling bad about a subject - or even good about something - why do so many of us feel obligated to comment contrary when the result is going to hurt or at least annoy our fellow Orgahs? In this case, DA is emotionally affected by the events of September 11th 2001. Why would anyone wish to add to his anquish by basically expressing apathy towards his feelings? If the event has no meaning to you, then why say anything at all? We Orgahs do the same thing in lighter topics too. Why do Americans have to chime in that "football" is boring everytime the World Cup comes around when 90% of the world is so excited about it? Likewise, why do non-Americans feel obligated to mock the name "football" everytime Americans try to discuss the Super Bowl? Topic: "I love Pink Floyd"...a reply: "Pink Floyd sucks!" And the list of examples goes on. If we feel obligated to comment negatively, with just a little thought and consideration, there are ways of being respectful in expressing that view. And through such actions, the Frontroom and even the Backroom can become a little more pleasant.

There is a time and place of more "energetic" discussions. Other times require more sensitivity. And there are times when silence is the wisest choice to make. :bow:

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My mom never said that to me once, ever. She was more of a speak your mind type of parent. I say what my reaction is, damn the conciquences (my list of warnings is proof of that much). If someone doesn't like it they should say so. If not, it's their problem.

I don't care about 9/11/01, never have. It didn't affect me in the least. Until such time as it does I won't care about it either. I you were affected you'll care. Those who weren't just role your eyes and keep out of their way. In the real world, here in teh internets you can say how much all this memorializing crap gets under your skin and how you'd be just as happy if no one tried to force you to memorialize it.

One more thing, I already have a mother. I don't need a net mommy too.

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Originally Posted by Zorba

Why would a true christian not be pissed off about how we celebrate Christmas and Easter? Giant bunnies and hobos in red parkas- what the hell, man? :dizzy2:

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My point was more about the fact that Easter isnt at all about mourning Christ's death.

Plus Pagan Holidays...Winter Solstice...Santa Claus...Easter Bunny are so on make Christian Holidays fun. Christian Holidays mourn, Pagan Holidays Celebrate.

:disappointed:

Oh, well, back to making bad puns...

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Originally Posted by Gregoshi

:disappointed:

Oh, well, back to making bad puns...

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They're not bad Greg ~:pat:

with exception of some ~;)