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The movie is going to be cool, even better if it doens't have any female characters, since Miller can't write them. At all. Make a man-on-man muscle power movie! Long spears and glistening biceps! Testosterone-rama!
Ahem, I would like to see a miniseries of the Gates of Fire. It was a decent book and took it's history with open and loving arms.
Oh yeah - thanks Mus. Gates of Fire, not Gates of Thermopylae. I never can remember that title... :laugh4:
It's a cool title for a cool book.
I just wished that there'd have been a bit more depth to the characters, none of them really were rememberable. Except Leonidas, but that's to be expected, since he's such a major character.
The book had a good Conn Iggulden-vibe with a some seasoning in the taste of Celtika.
who is the author of this gates of fire? sauron? lol now, seriously, im interested, whom should i look for, to find this book?
I noticed from the video journals on 300, that they are depicting the spartans as practically naked. It's one thing if 300 spartans faced countless overwhelming numbers. That's amazing in of itself. But if they did it without armor? Truly astouding. That an hour or two of arrow fire right at the start of the battle didn't kill or seriously wound every single one of them, shields or not, must have been nothing short of a miracle. Assuming, of course, that they really did forsake armor.
I bought the comic a few months ago, and it's brilliant. Beautiful art and a moving story. To be frank I couldn't care less about the historical accuracy, partly due to the comic being an excellent base for a very entertaining movie, but mainly because the actual battle and campaign are so shrouded in myths and distorted by entirely biased sources that it's an impossible goal to achieve regardless, and is hardly a priority for what will probably be in essence an epic popcorn flick. As long as it focuses purely on the battle and doesn't spend too much time on buildup; what I loved about the comic was the depiction of the utterly selfless sacrifice of the 300 and the brave role played by Leonidas. Again, historical accuracy be damned, the comic is moving in and of its own.
Unfortunately, the trailer isn't working for me. Copyright issues, apparently.
I wouldn't have as much of a problem if there hadn't been a better option out there currently in my opinion that the making of this one scuttled. But I still am not that much of a fan of the "violence is enough of a plot" school of thought. There isn't much of a plot in this comic/movie after all - it's pretty much a paean to slaughter. That's possibly an interesting music video or cheer or sculpture, but for a movie I'd hope for a more complex plot than what I saw in the comic. Anyone looking for any classical justification of this "snootiness" (plot first, FX/CGI last) can take a look at Aristotle's analysis of tragedy (in his Poetics) and what is most important in one. :grin:
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
Oh yes, that was a great exhibition. In the book that accompanied it there was a beautiful introductory paragraph to the chapter on Persian administration comparing how Athens and Persia dealt with conquered cities under their control. Persia had a policy of non-inteference (for the most part) whilst Athens crushed those cities who did not accept democracy. The paragraph finished on a small note on how in our times the democratic nations are doing much the same as Athens, forcing democracy through foreign policy and how there is something to be learnt from the Persian model; which indeed there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarkiss
Foot
It's by Steven Pressfield, but most of the historical work and such was done by experts.Quote:
Originally Posted by iberus_generalis
Look here for further info.
Well hoplites were still an important part of the battlefield when Thebes laid the smack down on Sparta. I think Spartans are overrated by history in general. They nearly cost Greece the war at Platea, and of course their defeat to Thebes doesn't bode well for them either.Quote:
Originally Posted by paullus
Still I expect an overpowered Spartan in EB.
ugh.. i really dont want to have to type out responses to some of the misconceptions about spartan history so ill keep it short
1. the spartans were not the only greeks present at the battle. there were 700 thespians as well. there were originally 6000 other greeks there as well from other city states, but leonidas dismissed them at the point the fight would be truly ordained as futile. Alot of the other city states desired to leave as it was, some of the athenians preferring a battle to take place behind athenian walls for example. All heeded leonidas order save the thespians who refused, desiring to stay for the sacrifice.
2. the actualy size of the persian army present there varied by historical accounts anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million and herodotus outlandishly claiming they fielded 5.2 million men
3. casualties of the battle range for the greeks at all 1000 killed to the last man to that of the persian sustained casualties which were estimates of 20,000 - 50,000
4. As far as battle etiquitte is confirmed concerning equipment and gear, the spartans present at thermapylae were that of the kings bodyguard and would have enjoyed full access to the best armor available and as such history reports them as having body armor. spartans did not shun armor as a sign of weakness. they did however shun the bow as a sign of cowardice
5. historically what is debated repeatedly is the spartan red cloak. popular belief suggests that it was strictly ceremonial, whereas there are some accounts that the spartans wore them into battle to conceal the blood of their own wounds, wounds that the enemy might take advantage of. Also whether or not
6. Leonidas fought in the second row of the phalanx
7. the spartan reputation back then was as strong as it is today and for good reason. If a man is trained from youth to fight, chances are(damn good chances) that he is going to know something about warfare and how to kill people successfully without dying in the process. This is evident all over the peloponnese with historical accounts of victories with few casualties in alot of battles and with some with the enemies with numerical superiority. the spartan soldier of the time was viewed much as it is today, a courageous discipline, highly trained and motivated raw killing machine. the other city states werent ignorant to the time of day, they knew that sparta was a militaristic city state and therefore some of them hated them.for sure all feared them and most of them respected them. spartans were a pillar of inspiration at the time of thermapylae and this can be seen in the athenians decision to appoint a spartan in charge of the fleet, as well as the thespians stand with leonidas's 300 at the battle itself.
8. on the topic of RTW / EB timeframe itself. sparta did see a brief renewal of its legacy when the lycurgan regime was reinstated (i started a thread detailing the history of it. with enough trolling it can be obtained need you know more)
this movie isnt going to be 100 percent accurate, but it still retains its core meaning. the embodiment of courage against insurmountable odds.
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen851
After seeing the trailer I'm convinced that they've chosen the right direction to take this movie, even if it's not the one I would have preferred. The only negative thing about it is that this probably means that Gates of Fire won't be turned into a movie anytime soon (if ever).
I don't think this won't by far be the worst possible depiction of Thermpopyle that could've been. They decided to make it a spectacular action movie with outrageous combat scenes, lots of blood, and the spartans themselves looking like male strippers. If you try to take that seriously, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. I think that the worst thing that could possibly have happened would've been a new Troy, or King Arthur. Those movies were truly terrible and as far as im concerned, succeeded neither in delivering enjoyable action, compelling plots, or historical accuracy. Even Alexander, with a renowned director behind it and all the right intentions, turned out to be mediocre at best.
For these reasons, I'd rather see some spectacular mindless violence in a vaguely ancient context than some bland and forgettable movie that can't decide if it want's to be a serious historical drama or just cash in on LOTR-esque CG battles and ends up failing at both.
Look at it from the bright side, at least there's no Brad, Angelina, Orlando, Colin, Kiera etc...
I find Troy quite interesting to use with myth classes (not showing it in class, but often with an extra credit viewing). Most students are horrified when they realize what the movie did. The best is when the few that haven't seen the movie before, but have learned the myths of Troy in the class, watch the film; seeing their jaws drop when Menelaus is killed or when other crazy things happened and then talking about it with them when it's over really makes them appreciate how good it could have been and how much better the story itself is (compared with the movie plot).
very true, I remember the shock when a bunch of people in a classics course I was in went to see Troy together, and Menelaus and Ajax are cut down in the first battle!
...and I've thought about using a bit of the battle set pieces in Alexander, as they're the only film representation of the Makedon phalanx, has anyone considered trying that? I'm not sure it'd be worth it, but its hard to explain the size of the sarissae and how different it was from most other forms of fighting.
One of my reenactor buddies was telling me about how a teacher friend of his got 20-foot-long PVC pipes and had his students use them while trying to march in formation, deploy in formation, etc.
It was apparently the most popular class he ever had.
I'd really want Mel Gibson to direct this kind of movies. He doesn't do an accurately history telling but he's good at directing and he always uses local and historical languages to do the movies, including the simulation of the accent.
I DON'T LIKE GREEKS SPEAKING IN ENGLISH. If this is a movie about greeks then take greek actors, or other actors who know greek, and do it that way. But its just my personal taste.
Look, I like Frank Miller's work. I dug Sin City a lot, and will probably enjoy Sin City 2 just as much. However, it is a tradgedy that the Pressfield novel, "Gates of Fire" was not used to make a movie. It's a superior story in my humble opinion.
I think that the only reason this one is being made is because it's got Frank Miller's name on it. Everyone loved the uniqueness of Sin City and that's why. Pressfield didn't stand a chance. No one outside of historical fiction really knows who he is.
Ho hum....
Good lord. I just watched the preview. I suppose that will have to do, eh? Not going to see this story made as a big budget flick again any time soon.
I hate it when they have synth music to movies about antiquity.
WHY, WHY, WHY!??!
True, but it does have Gerard Butler from Phantom of the Opera. My wife's infatuated with him. So going to see this will be really fun for me! Yes, that's sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by aecp
Edit: Okay, sorry for not editing my previous posts. Here is another trailer:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300...re5/large.html
I think it is going to be a good popcorn movie. Who cairs if you don't learn some thing from it, it will be fun to wach none the less.
HEY I know this isn't going to be 100% hitorically accurate, but still is going to be preatty darn good.
Oh by the way check out this clip of the trainning the actors had to go through. VIDEO JOURNAL #3 scroll down to watch it.
http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/video_journals.html
(man i am going to adjust my workout rutine just like the trainer says in the video)
OMG!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
The are putting MARTIAL ARTS in this movie. This is a quote from the STUNT COORDINATOR DAMON CARO: "Historcally there is really nothing... that classifies....there are no records of the actuall tactics that they used... u know the techniques" SO THEY MADE STUFF UP. FILIPINO INFLUENCED TRAINING, THAI, INDONESIAN, JAPANESE, CHINESE, "EVEN EUROPEAN"
AHHHHHHH....NOW I say this movie is going to S.U.C.K (my ******)
LMAO! That is so.... WRONG!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSpartan
Yes I know it will. All movies about history/legands based on history generally go a little bit far out and start getting people killed that wouldn't have been and start adding over the top modern bits. Just take Troy for example. The famous Agammendamon (I have no idea how to spell it, but he was the commander of the armies sieging Troy) was killed at the end. According to legend he got home and was poisoned by his wife and his wifes boyfriend. How could he have gopt killed like that and got home alive. Historical\historical legand movies should teach you something. If you see a historical/historical legand movie you very often (particually if you know little about the time period and you are under the age of 16) think that it is historical. So now lots of people are going to be thinking that Spartans were martial arts experts.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSpartan
Oh what end is this world coming to!!!!!
Yeah, the tale of Troy is veeeery historical.
It's not history but a famous poem and legend. Would you like to see a movie for Kalevala where Vainamoinen (sorry for spelling) was killed in the middle of the movie??Quote:
Originally Posted by Musopticon?
Ok mabye Troy was not a fantastic example, but the seige of Troy DID HAPPEN, but Homer spiced it up a bit by putting a woman with god like beuty in it, a love story and the death of a hero. Actually thinking about it that's exactly what Hollywood is doing with the Spartans. However I still agree that it will be bad influence on under 16's and people that know little about this period. I also agree that Homer's version of Troy is a bad idea too. The story has overwriten the history so now most people think that Mycenaean Greece was all heros, huge walls, woodern horses and women. I just used Troy as an example because it was a popular movie. I have edited my origional post now so it says history and legend.
Why not? Martial arts can mean anything, and various forms of martial arts were certainly known in and around Greece. Heck, one of the EB descriptions of a new unit specifically mentions an example of one. I wouldn't be surprised if in all their training learnt some form of martial arts, standardised stances and moves would be extremely important within a hoplite phalanx to prevent disruption of the lines; it absolutely doesn't have to be the stereotypical wire-floating thing overdone in movies, simply various techniques used within the phalanx to remove a target as effectively as is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSpartan