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Maybe if you were in a persistant world, as a local minor noble, gradually building up an army etc...
Hmm.
But not for regular games. Especially hosted on private machines. Who would do that? Just be silly. You pay for a persistant world, for perfect servers, constant patching, admins, etc.
Of course.. But MP is to small on TW, if it had 200,000-300,000 players MABYE, but not with only 200-300 or so, give or take 100 anyhow..
What is your point? Should I send my posts to you to proof read?Quote:
Originally Posted by }{Huscarls}{Barrett|L|
.......Orda
I think Orda is just vocing his thoughts Barett.
I would'nt pay for TW. MP has been screwed since RTW and the first version of MTW was majorly screwed too.
I would'nt pay for WoW.
I paid for EVE for a while and I'd still be paying if I had more time.
If I pay it's got to be worth it and TW isn't worth it, MP wise.
MTW/VI on MP wasn't bad Sinian, IMO, on the first one anyhow. RTW yes, was messed up, plus, I think it would be a bad idea to pay 10-20 bucks a month to play a MP game with how many people? 200, mabye 300? come on.
MTW/VI was'nt no, and that's what I said. The first version of MTW was screwed though, you'd take on average 30-60 minutes before you'd get into a game, and then most probably someone would get disconnected. There were so many issues I don't need to get into them in detail (I hope). What about the login issue. Before you could even hope to play a game you'd have to login, which most of the time you could'nt even do. I remember sittting there for an hour many many times logging in, disconnected from server, logging in, login failed, logging in,logging in, disconnected from server, logging in, login failed, logging in,logging in, disconnected from server, logging in, login failed, logging in,logging in, disconnected from server, logging in, login failed, logging in.
Once you actually got a game going suddenly the frekin thing would crash, or disconnect one player or more. In the middle of the game players would get kicked by the server. Server stability was a MAJOR issue (do I really need to remind everyone ?). Best was when not only did the game crash but you could'nt even log back in, coz there was your 'ghost' still sitting in the lobby waiting to play (lol?). SO the game thought you are already connected. And that's what we paid for. So now if someone asks would I pay. HELL ! NO WAY ! 50 bucks is not a whole lot in the industrialised world, but for that I can do a lot of stress free, fun things, like for example watch a great concert, or a play, or a night out, whatever.
It was pathetic and we all loved the game so much we actually spent hours and hours waiting to play. Finally they did get it working, but it was'nt close to perfect IMO.
How about America's Army, so easy. Log in, find server, connect, PLAY ! Takes about 30 seconds from the time you hit the shortcut on your desktop till the time you are IN GAME PLAYING.
How about EVE Online. Takes 90 seconds from the time you hit the shortcut till the time you are IN GAME PLAYING.
In the first version of MTW, you never knew how long it would take to get in the freakin game. Luckily I had time back then to sit around sipping beers while I wait, not anymore. Even if I had the time I'd never wait around like that again, NEVER.
And this is even without getting into the more intricate 'balance' issues. Beyond that RTW, incredible, just a tiny spot of the shadow of a great MP game TW once was.
Maybe I've just run my time. It was'nt at all interesting to have a battle in RTW, for me, unless it was scripted beforehand. There was no strategy, and tactics, interface was messed up comapred to the older TWs, teamplayi was less important. It had nothing of appeal to me. I played SP sometimes, and that was ok for a few hours, but then it was just missing some.. depth. Atmosphere was on the downhill in MTW from STW, and it got much worse in RTW. I tried the MTW2 demo and it's awesome, graphics are amazing, incredible detail. But I don't really care all that much for graphics, for me gameplay and depth, immersion is most important. I'm a person who likes tactics, strategy, depth. IMO since STW all that is going out in favor of flash. We now have an uberpolished product, a brilliant work, but it ain't for me, coz it does'nt have anything that appeals to me greatly. I will try it though, eventually. Hopefully there's some good mods for MP, coz with all that eye candy, I can just imagine how great it could be, if it had depth first.
Honorable Sinan :bow: , you've detailed brilliantly my exact experience with TW MP ever since EA's Shogun servers went dark.
At least on those rickety old machines, I could count on at least one successful login per evening, I could pick between comp or friendly, I could scan the player ladders (even though those had gotten somewhat jiggered, thus irrelevant).
My point in bringing up this topic, was to figure out some way to bring back those STW MP days. What would it take? How much money? And what would I be willing to pay? And you (all)?
It looks like the answer is a resounding "no", so I'll not push this any further. I'm not on a campaign to make it happen - just wanted to guage our willingness to support an enhanced (or "return-to-Shogun days") MP experience.
p.s. I still hold a tiny bit of hope that some small dev team is working on a no-frills, MP-friendly re-make of STW. Even though I'm sure I'll see pigs fly and hell freeze over just before that happens. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
That makes alot of sense. I suppose that unless people do subscribe to MP, it will never get much development time. But if MP doesn't draw in the customer, which at present it doesn't appear to, then people won't subscribe to it. It seems like a catch 22 situation to me, but at the end of the day it's up to the developer and publisher to improve the MP experience and put up some free servers to pull the next generation of MP players in. When it get's popular enough and the community develops, a subscription service will be the obvious next step.
Yes,Sinan did a marvellous job of explaining just how frustrating TW has been online. The community has never been huge but it was big enough to offer varied opponents (unless you lived in the lobby) and variety of army composition certainly went downhill after v2.01 unless you met players like Sinan, who did not fall into the 'run-of-the-mill' category. A certain Sinan/Kanuni Turk combo springs to mind and how wonderful it was to see his cav manoeuvres. The SP aspect of the game has never really attracted too much of my attention, the AI has always been so easily beaten and campaigns just become boring after a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
The more I ponder this new title (and don't get me wrong, the graphics are tremendous) the more I am inclined to question myself over buying it. Do I really want to spend a lot of money upgrading my PC? Will I do this only to be disappointed with MP again? Do I really want to get back in the MP rut of late nights and neglecting more important things?
Puzz3D once remarked "Wasted time is precisely that..wasted. You will never get that time back, it's gone forever."
In this high paced World we live in, where time is of the essence and where we try to fit more and more into our daily schedule, maybe I'd be better off calling time and walking away. In fact, devoting more time to my own bow rather than those of animated horse archers sounds far more enjoyable
.......Orda
Very well agreed Snian.. You said First Version of MTW, but you say MTW/VI no, I don't follow that part m8....Like Tonight, I had bad Lag in my game, and with me hving a Half Decent Comp and 8 MB Cable, I don't want anyone to dare tell me it's my comp. It's so frsutated trying to. That why I'm losing interstet with MP here on TW
BF2, takes me 2 or 3 minutes to get in game, with little lag, then the rest of the rounds go fine
AA, good
Guild Wars, BOOM!
but MTW2, meh, I just walk around when the lag comes.. But I think we all here have to understand, STW days aren't coming back. We can hope and wish that one day, mabye one day, CA will make a Final TW game, say STW2, and make it just, and I mean JUST, like the First STW,with balanced armies, a ladder,etc.... But It's not going to happen. That was 6 years ago. I already let go the fact of, we not going back to the STW MP days. If I was going to spend 6-7 hours doing the First MTW, MTW2 or BF2, I would say, The First MTW/VI and BF2, not MTW2 or RTW. period.
World of warcraft has as incredibly good GM support system and stable servers and few downtimes for the format. Thats why i quit eve online (took 3 months to even send me an email but still didnt fix problem that was a bug and reward me money i deserved as well as dayly downtimes and laggy servers). What im saying is if their gonna charge $15 a month for it then im gonna want to see 1 more thing be moddable each month and a really good GM service and stable servers (lag free too as well as maybe region specefic servers) they would also need to have different rooms for different mods (say if the mod pays like $20 flat fee. I highly doubt that would ever happen. So im never gonna pay monthly for this kind of game.Quote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
I stopped playing MP right after RTW was released - poor MP maps, nasty forums, and most of all, awful games. I had not one decent tactical online RTW game which wasn't spoilt by infantile behaviour, ridiculous funding (i gave up trying to get people to play with less than full upgraded units) unit spamming or just plain annoying "special abilities".
TBH I play EVE online, and I'll pay for that monthly becuase there is regular new content and a lot of interactive stuff in-game. TotalWar doesn't have that. A well implemented, balanced MP campaign would make me re-consider.
He meant MTW v1.0 went through a terrible phase. By VI v2.01 the server was stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
Unforunately v1.0 offered the best gameplay (see posts by Louis regarding spears etc) v2.01 was reduced to cav/sword.
I can live without STW, I prefer the idea of different factions. However, it's the tactical gameplay of STW that I miss and that CA, I'm afraid, have failed to match ever since
......Orda
I've never played bf2 on my current pc...but 3 minutes to get into a game seems like a very long time. As detailed as "hving a Half Decent Comp" is, what are the actual specs of your pc?Quote:
Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888
I'm finding games with just lh clan members in medieval 2 are actually extremely playable (almost no lag). I know quite alot of other people are saying maybe it may be peoples computers. Even if it is, then thats still not acceptable because if you have a half decent pc then you should get the game without lag, so it still needs patching, but just pointing it out...
Intel Pentium 4,2.8 GHz,512 RAM, Radeon X1300 256MB Card, 8 MB Cable
My comp runs BF2 well, with the expection of the 3 minutes, which I am suprise to see it runnning that well..
Ye its you're lac k of memory then. The system min requirments are just to get more people to play the game. Personally I think you need 1 gig to play it.
I agree with that. The game is marketted through its wonderful graphics and though it is possible for many to experience better settings on SP, the settings should be lowered for MP (for the precise 'minimum spec' reason)Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarch
There are many reasons for choosing to play with 'known' players. That their systems are reliable is one of the major reasons
......Orda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarch
Sure, that... but then you shouldnt run it at too high graph settings. I know that, you know that... but I am really not sure if everyone does so. The serious players do (at least I hope so).. but sometimes you can just be almost certain that a certain person who joined up just runs at a bit too high graph settings for his pc. You never can tell for sure.
I doubt graphics settings has anything to do with lag for other players. If their cpu cant handle the number of soldiers then it would be a problem.
CBR
I dont know for the other players, but lowering my video setting to minimum have improve a lot the lag in the larger games(3vs3-4vs4). No difference in small game. Of course there's game that lag anyway ...
Let's be honest, do we trust CA with our monthly fee? I mean ffs I bought the game and ALREADY multiplayer doesn't work for me and all their other customers who used steam and direct2drive. And instead of making an immediate fix for the problem they are waiting until the next patch, ridiculous.
Look at all those other games out there with automated ladders, community support. TW MP recieves little to no attention from CA and tbh they could probably do without the hastle, the only reason why they have it is because it is expected.
The COMMUNITY organizes everything, makes the tournaments, spends their time and money working because CA won't. They have an online system that doesn't even work, and then they would have you pay for the stability and features that should have been released with the game anyways? No, there is no way in crap that I would ever pay for online play.
People complain about MMOs when they p2p, but when you play those games there are updates and fixes bi-daily. There are people working the game to ensure that if there is a glitch they will come pull you out of a wall. Where was CA when my gamespy game went FAILED TO CONNECT FAILED TO CONNECT.
Alot of people know me as a very active MP community member, I love these games, but CA continues to provide baseline support for a small community that will probably continue to dwindle as the people who spend all their time and effort on trying to make a fun MP environment become disillusioned by the lack of ANYTHING given back to them. We can and will continue to run things better than CA. Heck, even the mods made by the community are better than CA could have ever hoped for. The only thing that keeps this MP community going is the poor souls that keep hoping that this great game will be better and not suck. Its like waiting around on xmas eve for santa and realizing he is not coming. He doesnt exist. (Sorry for spoiling it warman).
Rant/end
That is truly terrible!!! CA not allowing Steam users to go online???!!!! /agreed about CA not giving a damn about MP either. Which reminds me of that person who said "NTW2 was screwing up gamespy and it would have to be shut down by CA". Even if it was (which it wasnt this person was speaking bullshit) I doubt CA would care.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowMelon
Although CA doesnt really need to organise tornyments just hardcoding less stuff would be good and making different rooms for well respected large MP mods (RTR, NTW2 etc...) but even still they dont do that....
Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowMelon
Hey,
lol Melon, I don't think Santa will be bring you a Yellow melon this year :laugh4:
Ok, Yes, Melon is right. If I would have said what he said, I proably would have got my 3rd warning point, because I would have said it bluntly. CA really doesn't care. I think, they want to "help" so to speak, to bring back the people, beause, god forbide if they don't have a MP, and if some MP players BS to a Game Magainze, like PC Gamer (US or UK Editions or both)or CGW then you going to be in touble,they are anyhow. They wonder why, "Hmmmm, why isn't Grey wolves active anymore?" "Hmmmmm, Why did Fearfulways split up" "hmmmmm, why isn't Kenchi here annymore" and "hmmmmm, where have all the good players went?", there you go. Shogun for example, He gave me such a hard time with everything, plus he didn't respond to half my PM's.. Plus, he posts alot at the MTW2 section when the Chat Ban was in Past last winter, but he didn't post in the Chat Ban Section for a few months. Hmmm, Why? That Why, I hate CA with such a Passion. The Communtiy have to bust our ass to make it what it is today. And Yet, NO Help from CA. WE, have to run CWB, WE, have to run CWC, WE, have to Run TWPL and everything else. What the Hell do we get in return? a MP that is dying and getting overrun with these Jackasses who don't know a god damn about Being Skillfull. IEveryone here can argee with Me and Melon, even the Most Honorable Players here, will also. You know why? If MP wasn't such a hell hole, It would be Such a Better Game. you would see Old Clans on, and the RTW clans on, and it would be a GREAT MP IF CA stops pissing around. know I'm proably going to get warned for this, but at this point, I don't care.I just have to vent.
The reason you pay monthly for MMO's is because they are always releasing new content. New items, new levels, new areas, new monsters, new features, etc.
I would not pay monthly for any game that did not release new content, and M2TW type games do not fit the MMORPG model.
So no.
I play WoW and some other MP games, like BF2142 and similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morindin
There is a grave difference between a game like WoW and MTW2, for instance.
On my server alone, there are thousands of people logging in every day. Lots and lots of people, yeah. I pay the monthly fee for a developing game, where the engs must bust their kneecaps (though often people think they never do) holding everything together. In a MMORPG of the dimensions as WoW, you have a steady inflow of fixes, items, quests, new implemented ideas... The complexity of the game's system is mindblowing, even though sometimes only z0mg kids appear to play it (which is not true; z0mger suxxorz leeterz are verywhere, even in - how sad - TW games...), and the amount of things that could go wrong is outrageous.
MTW2, for better or worse, is a SP game primarily, and they would never muster a will or ability to support the MP community 10% (maybe even far less) of the output of the Blizzard crew. Also, do not forget that Blizzard people are being criticized everyday, and with much harsher tones than CA, even if you may think that's impossible. Example; item X is broke in WoW. Crowd flames Blizz. Somewhere in their dungeons, folks are testing item X until they find out the reason, they hurry to fix it while their supervisor lash them and rush them to be more effective. They introduce the fix at the regular weekly maintenances, at the same time registering dozens of new ones, working on them as well. They listen to suggestions, they communicate with the fans, even though they don't get it right all the time, they try.
I believe CA's respectable reply so far was "there is no bug; the bug exist only in your mind". After several months of bickering, the reply is "ok, that is not a bug, its a feature". And after a year or so, when that one traditional patch is out, they may even sort the issue at hand... And raise three new ones in the process...
Imagine CA responding to our complaints, fixing issues at hand, responding to our needs, organizing decent servers, stop desync MP issues and so on? Maybe add new maps every few weeks or introduce new features? I find it hardly to believe even in theory, AFAIK, folks in CA were doing work on some patches in their own spare time, unpaid and unsupported...
There is no critical mass for something of a grand scale of MP support as you would hope, for, Kukri-sama. If we had thousands and thousands players, maybe then, but not as the things stand now.
Thats why piracy will kill companies like CA....Quote:
Originally Posted by Voigtkampf
The 7 million people of WoW are there because there is no free alternative with private servers sucking big time....
Well I would pay for a multiplayer only version of the game where all focus is on mp ... I did pay for several mp only fps -s .... on the other hand a monthly fee for a game when your own pc is the server why would any1 want to pay for that ...
TGI
I don't want to bash CA or anything, But It still seems they still don't care about MP, which isn't new.
I think it's because, CA might think, "It's a SP game, plus, why should we care about a game with only 200-300 people on MP?"
there you go.It doesn't matter if Palamades (Jason) works for CA and is also a MP player or not, That why BF2/2412 and other FPS and WOW and other MMORG's get more help, because they got more people, in the Tens of Thousands and in the Millions.
This is the crux of the whole thingQuote:
Originally Posted by KukriKhan
alot of people thought MTWVI was ok MP - I was one who disagreed
STW original had a simplicity like chess - there was a very restricted range of units and all players had the same units to choose from. This lent very well towards MP - it was like chess - you both had the same sets of pieces - you knew each pieces strengths and weakness - it was all TACTICS
maybe you had to out manouver - maybe outlast - these men vs those - this unit first - then that
the simplicity of the RPS model and the restictions meant it was all down to your tactics vs your opponents
why STW MP was king and still is in my view
Even in those day the MP side of STW was the poor neglected cousin - the MP community flourished in spite of this - so the fact people feel MP isnt well support still - nothings changed
how to get those days back - maybe they cannot come back because those that made them so are now gone or have become disillusioned.
certainly are alot of neg nellies regarding M2TW - which if looked at on its merits is a superb game - yet people were critising before they even understood how the game worked - really these people need to walk away from games - because they are never going to find a game that meets their expectations - I pity them - buying these games and not allowing themselves to enjoy it or have fun for even a day - is it still worth playing games - if you never have fun
recreate STW with the graphics of M2TW but the simplicity and tactics of STW - then maybe - your dream could be realised