How to Attract Guilds

I got the swordsmith guild once as the Turks in Constantinople shortly after I took it from the Byzantines which was quite early in game and it was not there in the first place because I got the guild offer message. Not sure how that happened because the only thing I trained there were spear and town militia. But when I restarted the campaign I never got it any more. I did get the Swordsmith HQ when I captured a citadel which had it. Now I'm trying to get my other fortresses a swordsmith but no luck. Oh and btw the alchemist guild finnaly showed and I mangage to get it to HQ also

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Originally Posted by supadodo

I got the swordsmith guild once as the Turks in Constantinople shortly after I took it from the Byzantines which was quite early in game and it was not there in the first place because I got the guild offer message. Not sure how that happened because the only thing I trained there were spear and town militia. But when I restarted the campaign I never got it any more. I did get the Swordsmith HQ when I captured a citadel which had it. Now I'm trying to get my other fortresses a swordsmith but no luck. Oh and btw the alchemist guild finnaly showed and I mangage to get it to HQ also

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I got an already built Master Swordsmith in Ragusa, and I was offered a Swordsmith in Thessalonica as well. So it looks like the "guild counter" for a settlement carries over regardless of how much the settlment changes hands?

Oh that would be great, otherwise I'll have to churn Hashashamshims.

very informative =D

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Originally Posted by Sinan

Oh that would be great, otherwise I'll have to churn Hashashamshims.

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The "swordsman produced" event does not appear to have an o value, just an s value. If people are correct in saying that s = settlement count and o = overall count then the swordsmith guild does not get any o points from unit recruitment, unlike the horse-breeder guild.

Another blow for the hapless Turk! Maybe I will just have to add a swordsmith to Damascus? :(

Has anyone got the alchemist guild yet in game?, its the only guild ive not been othered as the english yet. I have the assasins guilds headquaters, theives guid headquaters, merchants guild headquaters, explorers guild headquaters, swordsman guild headquaters, masons guild headquaters & the woodsman guild headquaters.

I have noticed somthing though i did have the knights hospitilar and i was trying like mad to get the templars so in the end i destroyed the hospitilars and instantly next turn i was offered the templars (and every go after that all over the place). Now if i remember corretly in the original medieval:TW england could not have both hospitilar & templars at the same time they could only have one at a time. Ive got a feeling aswell that the english (maybe every faction) can only have one guild of a certain type as in you can only have one cavalry guild in your civ or one missle guild. Can anyone confirm this as i dont realy use the woodsman guild but i'd preffer not to destroy them to get the alchemist guild .

I finally got the theologians guild as Milan, but with some oddities:

I got it at turn 97/98 and the next turn was immediately offered the masters version and the following another normal one.
Funny thing is, I used to pump out a lot of priests before and build all the catherdrals and huge versions, but only when I kind of stopped doing that and was focussing and killing the final enemy in my campaign (England) I suddenly got that offer.

Now I wonder, is it possible that you only get this guild after a certain amount of turns played maybe?

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

I finally got the theologians guild as Milan, but with some oddities:

I got it at turn 97/98 and the next turn was immediately offered the masters version and the following another normal one.
Funny thing is, I used to pump out a lot of priests before and build all the catherdrals and huge versions, but only when I kind of stopped doing that and was focussing and killing the final enemy in my campaign (England) I suddenly got that offer.

Now I wonder, is it possible that you only get this guild after a certain amount of turns played maybe?

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It looks like the only prerequisite is that you are required to have a "city" to get a first level guild, a "large city" to get a Master guild, and a "huge city" to get a guild HQ. Plus the required guild points.

Thanx this post was very helpful.

I cranked out lots of churches, and made all priests in Milan and got a theologians guild very early, then cranked out mercantile buildings and all Merchants from Venice and got a merchants guild there very early as well, ditto with assassins guild in Bologna.

I think the "s" stands for Settlement and "o" stands for Overall. What I believe happens is the game keeps track of different total points, settlement points just for that settlement to use to determine which guild(s) get offered there and overall points empire wide. Any city large enough to have a guild but lacking settlement points to qualify for one would be offered a guild which your overall points qualify for. I keep getting offered assassins guilds in cities where I've never trained an assassin. I expect the "a" stands for Agent, because you earn those points by agent actions, like a successful assassination, sabotage, or infiltration of a foreign settlement.

What if a stands for action. We seem to get points for producing and building. Could it be som sort of action points? I get a lot of theologians guilds as spaninsh when converting muslim lands. Maybe we need to use what we build.


G

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Originally Posted by Gustav II Adolf

What if a stands for action. We seem to get points for producing and building. Could it be som sort of action points? I get a lot of theologians guilds as spaninsh when converting muslim lands. Maybe we need to use what we build.


G

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I would have to second that thought...

I was 'inactively' using my priests. Then I began a hearty 'upgrade' programme for them, so I could dominate the College without the need to kill the other cardinals (my good old assassins got old). Suddenly I get three Theologian Guild offers in a row after some time spent converting lands (one of my cardinals and his priest sidekick are having a convertion-battle with four imams near Nicaea).

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

I would have to second that thought...

I was 'inactively' using my priests. Then I began a hearty 'upgrade' programme for them, so I could dominate the College without the need to kill the other cardinals (my good old assassins got old). Suddenly I get three Theologian Guild offers in a row after some time spent converting lands (one of my cardinals and his priest sidekick are having a convertion-battle with four imams near Nicaea).

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It probably doesn't really matter so much whether "a" stands for "agent", "action" or "all". What matters is what the game does with the points. This story seems pretty consistent with the view that "a" points are awarded to all your settlements.

A cardinal promotion gets you 10 "a" points, as does a denouncement. Converting population itself does not appear to earn points, but it does get you Cardinals.

Ahhh... Then it makes sense. I have gotten a whole load of cardinals lately. And some of them have been vicious killers of heretics (the agents not population... well them too). After I pruned the College down to four cadinals I haev almost exclusively been the one to repopulate it. I think I have 8 cardinals and there are three others.

A few beliefs (to be tested this weekend) from my perusal of the export_descr_guilds.txt file to add to the OP.

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The structure of each entry in the file looks similar to below:
;------------------------------------------
Trigger 0004_Normalise ##TriggerName
WhenToTest SettlementTurnStart ##When triggered

Condition I_TurnNumber > 25 ##Condition to be met

Guild all s -1 ##(Category label) (guild type(or all/this keyword) (a,s,o) (#points)

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So what i think happens is that the game keeps a running tally of how many points each settlement has 'earned' towards each and every guild type.
When you meet a condition points are assigned either to a=all settlements, s=settlement that triggered, o=all other settlements. I believe that's what the letters stand for as all triggers with 'a' points are for things like trade agreements and the actions of spies, assasins where it doesn't make sense to tie things to a particular settlement. As well, some triggers give both 's' + 'o' points, or, 'a' points, but you never see 'a'+'s' / 'a'+'o'.

As well, I believe the OP is wrong on the normalise value - you lose 1 point from every guild tally in every settlement every turn after turn #25, not every 25 turns.

Ok, so that's great info for the modders, but what does it mean for play, huh?

Well, explains why i always seem to get theives guild offers so soon - every spy mission adds to tally for every settlement, throw in a couple of brothel-line buildings, and spy trainings at a particular settlement and voila = theif guild offer. The assassin's/Hashashim guild works much the same, just a little slower as there's less/harder triggers.

So, use those spies, assassins, priests and merchants actively ie don't just let them sit there doing there passive thing, make them spy, kill (not sabotage??), burn and acquire.

Some guild-specific tips:
Explorer's guild - train merchants and send fleets to far away lands

Alchemists/Swordsmith's guild - train and build gunpowder/sword line stuff (units as listed in OP).

Might be obvious, but appears Woodsmens guild is England faction only based on this file alone let alone any hard-codedness that might exist (would be very difficult for any other faction to get, esp anything higher than 1st level).

Mason's guild - will take a while just build, build, build as per OP

Horse breeder's guild - a tricky one as is city-based guild but really requires the training of cavalry to level up (except I think muslim factions can easily train cavalry in cities). Tip: as spain produce Jinetes from the plaza del toro. Not sure about workarounds for other western factions (races maybe), if none exist then u'll just have to produce 100's of cavalry from your castles!!!!

Various Knight's Chapter Houses - Hospitaller's are easier to get than Templars. Hospitaller's (St Johns) have extra triggers to earn points - DoW on islamic factions (no need to actually fight battles!!!) and neighbour islamic factions.

Can't see any workaround atm for muslim factions re swordsmith guild catch-22 (have an idea but need to test it....)

Also, need to test - if reach points for two guilds at same time, what order are guilds allocated in? Do you get a guild offer the moment you satisfy the threshold, or does this just satisfy part i) of a further random chance condition?

For the Horse Breeders guild for western factions, doesnt the merchant militia cav count towards getting it?

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

For the Horse Breeders guild for western factions, doesnt the merchant militia cav count towards getting it?

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Yes, it would.....but.....you can only have one guild per settlement, as far as I'm aware (certainly that's what the manual says).
This leads into my thinking on the possible workaround for the muslim factions re swordsmith's guilds. It should be possible to 'tech' up the required points with the assasin's guild making lots (34+ for the top level guild!!!) of hashashim, then destroy the assasin's guild and wait for the swordsmith guild to happen (or merchant's for HB guild and cav). Of course, you'd have to wear the GuildDestroyed costs ie -100 from that settlement for that guild (no matter as you've finished with it there anyway), but also -20 to all other settlements chances at the guild you just destroyed (though that's only one succesful assasination or 2 trained merchant's/acquisitions respectively). And, of course you have to beat the other factions to the top level guilds!

I don't think it would be too hard to add a trigger to the file for an appropriate muslim unit so that they can get the guild more easily.

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Originally Posted by Eldon

So what i think happens is that the game keeps a running tally of how many points each settlement has 'earned' towards each and every guild type.

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Yeah, i think that's pretty much been the assumption all the way through.

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When you meet a condition points are assigned either to a=all settlements, s=settlement that triggered, o=all other settlements. I believe that's what the letters stand for as all triggers with 'a' points are for things like trade agreements and the actions of spies, assasins where it doesn't make sense to tie things to a particular settlement. As well, some triggers give both 's' + 'o' points, or, 'a' points, but you never see 'a'+'s' / 'a'+'o'.

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Good stuff, that makes an awful lot more sense than my bodged interpretation of it. Will edit the OP to make more sense in that case

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As well, I believe the OP is wrong on the normalise value - you lose 1 point from every guild tally in every settlement every turn after turn #25, not every 25 turns.

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Hmmm... i'd figured that 1 point every turn was a bit harsh, and would probably wipe out any gains far too quickly (i'd figured I_TurnNumber was an Increment in turns since the last time the event was triggered), and you'd have to gain another 200 points over the course of the game in order to get those guild HQs.

But having said that, 1 point every 25 turns is pretty low - only 9 points throughout a normal speed game - so youre probably correct.

Just convert one of your castles to a city and you'll get a horse breeders' guild. I got tired of waiting for swordsmith in Toledo and switched, got a horse breeder next turn.

My other post got eaten somehow so I'll post again on how to tweak so that Muslims get swordsmith. Do a search in the guild file for "TrainedUnitCategory". You will see a trigger that gives horse breeder points for building cavalry. Since cavalry get bonuses from swordsmiths and you can't have a horse breeder in a castle (or a swordsmith in a city), It stands to reason that building cavalry could also contribute towards swordsmithing (another point is that cav get shiny lances when they upgrade while swords mostly don't). Change or copy the trigger and make it give guild points for swordsmith too.

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

Hmmm... i'd figured that 1 point every turn was a bit harsh, and would probably wipe out any gains far too quickly (i'd figured I_TurnNumber was an Increment in turns since the last time the event was triggered), and you'd have to gain another 200 points over the course of the game in order to get those guild HQs.

But having said that, 1 point every 25 turns is pretty low - only 9 points throughout a normal speed game - so youre probably correct.

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I figured it was If TurnNummber > 25 so as to let you get things up and running in the very early stages when you can't probably afford to specialise. Then they start taking -1 from everything so as to make you(from manual):

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Keep working for upgrades
you will need to cotinue to support your guild's interests
to receive an offer to upgrade it to the next rank of building.
Thus only factions that truly focus on something find a
guild HQ in their lands.

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Originally Posted by dopp

Just convert one of your castles to a city and you'll get a horse breeders' guild.

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D'oh!! So obvious!! That would be much easier!

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Originally Posted by dopp

Since cavalry get bonuses from swordsmiths and you can't have a horse breeder in a castle (or a swordsmith in a city), It stands to reason that building cavalry could also contribute towards swordsmithing (another point is that cav get shiny lances when they upgrade while swords mostly don't). Change or copy the trigger and make it give guild points for swordsmith too.

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Not sure I understand you, but atm the file doesn't include any triggers for cavalry units to contribute to swordsmith guilds. Or, are you suggesting to make new triggers for muslim cavalry units so they can get swordsmith guild that way?

Yes. That's what I meant. Just have one general trigger that gives points for creating cavalry units for any faction.

I've noticed that swordsmith guilds don't give melee bonuses to missile units. Since JHI are city trained and hybrids don't get melee bonuses, swordsmith guilds aren't as useful for the Turks. Only a few units would seem to be able to get the bonuses.

Also, I'm playing the Russians and can't get a thieves' guild hq even building spies on one building almost exclusively. The problem is that the Polish, Hungarians, Germans and Byzantines built a lot of spies and had thieves' guild everywhere. I had to destroy quite a lot to get other, more useful guilds.

Probably it's just me but whenever I play either the Turks or the Egyptian the only guild that I were offered is the Assasin Guild. :help:

Never seems to be the case when I played England and Sicily.

Not whining, just an observation. Maybe because I modded something to the files.

Great work on the guide mate.

If i see it disappear to the second page of the forums i'll sticky it, but otherwise I think you'll find more people look at it when it's not ;)

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Originally Posted by sapi

If i see it disappear to the second page of the forums i'll sticky it, but otherwise I think you'll find more people look at it when it's not ;)

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Cheers dude. ~:) Econ's already put it in the FAQ sticky, so this probably doesnt need to be stickied on its own.

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Originally Posted by Daveybaby

Woodsman's Guild
Recruit archers (England only!): +10/15/20 settlement (depending on unit)
Build brothel series: +10/15/20/25/30 settlement, +0/0/0/2/5 others
Governor with chivalry >4: +5 settlement (per turn?)

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are you sure brothel is the building line? Bowyer would make more sense.

I find that Thieves Guilds and Theologians Guilds the two most common and easiest guilds to get no matter what you do in the game. Explorers, Swordsmiths, and Knights (Templars, Hospitalers, etc.,) the next easiest to get.

I find the guild missions more useless than the Council of Nobles and Pope missions. They want you to carry out some silly scheme of theirs that most of the time doesnt work to your advantage in any shape or form. CA should have put in a 'Mission Turned Down' feature in this game so a player can turn down a mission and try to get something better to work with his campaign strategy.

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Originally Posted by Trithemius

I noted this as well. Extremely annoying actually. Also, all the likely foot units for swordsmith guild chance bonuses are built in cities - so it looks like you are out of luck if you want guilds in castles if you are a Turk. :(

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The same with Egypt :( I tried to get that guild but I couldn't. Tabardariyya with the weapon upgrade would rule even more !

In my next Egypt game, I'll take a castle from someone and keep the guild, instead of tearing it down to make a merchant, me think.

Necromancy is bad.