There's not one thing people in this thread mention missing that i do not ALSO MISS! OMG there were a lot of cool things stripped from the game! :wall:
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There's not one thing people in this thread mention missing that i do not ALSO MISS! OMG there were a lot of cool things stripped from the game! :wall:
Many of the things people miss have to do with the strategic map changes... it makes all the diference. Regional units, pace of conquest, local bonuses and the iron-swordsmith thing, all were made possible with the previous map, and apparently are harder to implement with this one... I do miss them and i think they make the games that much different, and the new one not necessarily better in many aspects.
I miss the regional units and regional bonuses as well.
I'm of the reverse opinion on the battles, however. There's more field battles. In the original MTW, the opponent would retreat to the castle frequently and it's siege after siege, which sucks. The battles against brigands gets old very quickly in MTW2, though. I just bring a group of 3 family members and autoresolve. It bogs down the mid to endgame too much, otherwise.
Why couldn't they just keep the orignal content of the MTW and slap nice graphics on them. Why did they rework everything, why change what works? I mean people loved everything about MTW escept the graphics, so the only logical change should have been the visuals.
I also badly miss the titles (much much better system than the curernt governers), but most of all I think I miss the re-emergence of factions.
In my current game, Spain went out early. Skip forward a hundred years or so, and half of Iberia has gone rebel (I love spies + assassins + sabotage). In MTW Spain would've re-emerged out of the rebel provinces, which would've been really cool. Now if a faction is destroyed, that's it... end of faction.
I also miss the old style crusades, and the regional units, and the region specific bonuses... they gave different regions so much more character, and although the topography of the map in M2TW provides some individuality to a specific region it's not the same as having local units and abilities. A lot of the things in this version (provinces, tech trees, mercenaries especially) seem very uniform and generic.
I don't know that the importance of the battles has changed too much.. I've still had decisive fights with the future of whole faction sresting on them in M2TW, although I agree the bandits become a pain rather than a menace in the mid to end game.
the efficient REINFORCEMENT system...not impose a burden of additional system source to use it in battle map. simple and convient.
it is very pity that current dev concept focuses just on improvement of gorgeous graphic rather than strategical one.
What I miss:
The Titles always helped add that personal touch to my Realm.
The Ability to move an army from one end of the map to the other if you had ship on each area. (Two years now to go from Dover to Calais.:laugh4: )
The Fact that I actually started to get the jist of LATIN
-Open Fire! (Taylar Ententete!)
-Stop! (Comstat!)
And hearing the foreign languages of the Muslims on the battlefield. Sounded exotic! :yes: And that they really were a foriegn enemy.
Regional Specific Troop recuitment. Like highlanders for their nutty Highland Charge attack bonus and Swiss Pikemen protecting my Nails Longbowmen. Regions became a necessity for what it provided instead of just another notch for the victory conditions.
The Ability to organise my reinforcements prior to battle instead of now just making do with what comes onto the Map. It made it far more strategic!
Factions re-emerging
Might be just me, but I felt like there were far more open field battles instead of what now feels like loads of repetitive city/castle assaults.
And finally the glum/dark medieval music with the Lute and the random wind rain and church bell in the background.:laugh4: It ALWAYS made me want to wear a fleece!
I happen to miss a few things that many people hated at the time of MTW: civil wars and re-emerging factions. Yes I hated it too when e.g. the Almohads would re-emerge in Finland, but if it could be confined to a faction's historical homelands it is a great feature. However, in my M2TW campaigns up to now, most AI factions seem to survive a long time and are doing much better than they would have in MTW or RTW.
I also miss civil wars. In MTW you always had to check a character's loyalty regularly. In RTW/M2TW it doesn't seem to matter much.
In a way, I also miss the vices&virtues system from MTW. In RTW/M2TW characters can get a lot of traits very quickly and it becomes too cumbersome to check them all.
My list:
- re-emerging factions
- civil war
- exploding/collapsing siege engines and cannons
- titles
Titles
Civil Wars
Reemerging factions
Area specific troops and bonuses
i loved the loyalty element and how u had to play around with titles to keep u empire intact. i loved how when the king died and his heir took over all his brothers loyalty dropped and he had to gain influence fast to bring loyalty up. sucession had an impact in gameplay so if u king died at the wrong time it could affect your game. whereas now i dont even know where my king is lol
hes just anther gov raking money for the warmachine.
man jut writing here has made me miss those disloyal bastards more lol
Am I the only one who liked Glorious Achievements? I didn't always go that route, but it felt more realistic than trying to conquer the known world with a Medieval army; also gave the game some variety.
I also miss the 'darker' atmosphere of the original. That tolling bell; the bedraggled character portraits; the stark building and unit portraits (though they got more cartoony in VI); even the creepy singing when you played a Muslim faction. Even the intro was darker; the knight with the ice-cold blue eyes looking up at you after he pulps the scorpion with his dagger and the narrator's hoarse voice grinding out "Meeeed... EEEEvilllll... TOW-tal War!" (That's my best attempt at phonetic British English, sorry...)
Seconded. There was so much right with MTW that didn't need changing....Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackboots
I can't believe I forgot to mention that! Yes, glorious achievements were great because they often required you to do more than just conquer. They didn't always work correctly though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackboots
What I miss f.e.:
- the fewer but longer main battles
- regional troops
- dismounting
- titles
The only reason I would never go back to MTW is the campaign map.
But when I have found EB 0.8 a few days ago feelings of missing something had decreased rapidly.:laugh4:
I miss Border Forts so that I wouldn't have to be worrying about the 46 French spies surrounding each of my cities trying to kill my royalty.
I miss a battlefield AI. Last night I had a battle of my 1300 men versus their 1300 men. I lost 13 men and killed every one of theirs. And this is only my first campaign and I haven't played RTW in years. I miss a challenge!
I miss Medmod 4.0! How is Wes doing these days?
The only things I really miss are titles and regional units. Other things like reveling secret traits and killing off family members were cool but not that important.
On the other hand from a campaign perspective MTW2 has taken two steps forwards (religion is a lot better, and a proper map (though RTW had that)). However it has taken one step back (titles and regional units.), MTW2 is a better game but if they had kept some things from MTW it would be amazing rather than just another good game to distract me for a couple of months at the start and then for a month or two next year when some good mods have come out.
I, too, absolutely loved GA mode. In fact, I never played a regular domination game in vanilla or with a mod. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackboots
But the new system of the councils and Pope and guilds giving you missions is not bad, but I think it ought to be ramped up. The missions are so infrequent (other than "take this rebel town", which, while fun, gets boring)that they are of little consquence. In short, there needs to be more missions and more types of missions. Hopefully, some of the mods will address that.
i miss:
epic battles - when your one army stack fought against a force 3 or 4 times stronger
titles - it really made the differerence and if you roleplayed it, then your really strong generals got the titles
unit diversity - too much vanilla for my taste, the mtw1 factions were a lot more different
flow of time - 2 years/turn??? even if you mod it to 0.5, armies don't advance fast enough, while building cities is much to fast in comparison
spear/pike defense efficiency - that whole vanilla stuff is just fodder
counterintelligence - too many assassins and no good way to actively deal with them
mercs - current selections is boring and I as well miss the regional units (where are my SAP and swiss halberdiers!?!)
historical tidbits - all those small information bits about the origins of the hashishin, byzantine coup d'etats and the magna charta...
vanilla - the game is just that, way too much vanilla in animations, movies, gameplay... where is the diversity?!
but there are some things I like in MTW2:
- more complexity in diplomatic dealings
- much more interesting strategic map/game
- vices and virtues not as random
- looks and animations on tactical map
- mapsize
Provincial bonuses to particular units, remember the +1 valour to >insert unit name here< bonuses? Not to mention the regional specialist troops, like Woodsmen in eastern Europe and Steppe Cavalry in the Russian regions. I dunno maybe I'm just sentimental but I was really hoping to see this stuff again. :sad:
I miss being able to move an army a *reasonable* distance in a TWO YEAR PERIOD!!!!:furious3:
I cant get from Denmark to the closest German province in two years?!?!? yea right
:: No sarcasm is intended here ::
I honestly find this thread fascinating! A week and a half (give or take) ago I created a topic asking what does MTW:2 do better than MTW and the concensus opinion seemed to be "everything!"
Battles are more epic. The strategy map is important. Crusades and Jihads are implemented better....etc.
And now it seems that in that space of time the list has almost completely reversed itself.
I have no point here other than stating how remarkable I find it. I'll still be play 2 when I get it and I expect I'll enjoy it. Sounds like I'll be keeping M:TW installed too now though. ;)
I miss needing to use tactics. In MTW battles were about morale, and secondarily about causing casualties. Now as far as I can tell even lowly units take about 75% casualties before they think about routing, turning battles into slugfests.
The strategic game does seem a lot better but I am not sure that compensates.
I may well reload MTW to remind myself...
It would be nice if:Quote:
Originally Posted by JFC
Ships moved 500 a turn instead of 150.
Blockading a port prevented ships inside from leaving.
The reason for the cap on ship move speeds is because otherwise there would be no way to intercept an invasion fleet before it reached the target. But if blockading would stop the enemy's ships from leaving, then you could do what the Royal Navy did and keep the enemy buttoned up in their harbors.
I miss the actual desire to play past the first 30 turns of a campaign. After you've secured a position in M2TW, none of the AI factions can touch you. In battle, the huge epic ones, the AI has no chance! In MTW, I lost battles like that on Easy. Granted, i just started the TW games, but still.
In fact, if M2TW had JUST upgraded graphics and done the new campaign map thing. (and gotten rid of inns--required for mercs thing), I'd like it alot more then I do now.
I am still playing MTW and RTW a bit..but have to say that it is hard to go back to them..even though I liked them a lot..after playing MTW2...
MTW looks ancient..even RTW looks a bit barren..and maybe too fast in the battles.
CA are so close to hitting most of the right spots..if only they give us the patch! lol....
On a serious note..I would like to see some of the requested ideas here put into the game..sure not all will make it..but titles etc..and making turns into years isnt hard to do...
I also miss the great achievements campaign also....
Let's hope CA take this onboard..and add something more than just fixes...
Apart from the things already mentioned, i'd have to say the unpredictability of the campaign. Especially with the mods that add more factions.
You could be suffering at the hands of a specific faction and then BAM, civil war for them, their lands are carved up by other, smaller factions, and another one takes the opportunity to reemerge. All this sparking off new wars and alliances and angering the pope.
Egypt could conquer the British isles, Ireland could swell into a super empire, it made every campaign new and interesting.
I find M2 severely lacking in this department...
Especially the more extensive unit roster of MTW (where are Urban Militia, Militia Sergeants, the whole sword-armed Men-at-Arms line? Not to mention the regional units), the extensive building tree (multiple buildings required for advanced units) the individual characters of the unit commanders, historical figures (my favourite was Jeanne d´Arc heading a unit of Swiss Armoured Pikes in one French campaign), titles, re-emergences, a rational rebel system (i.e. one tied to provincial happiness), dismounting, Glorious Achievements, a battle AI paying close attention to terrain (the "rush for the hill"), recording my campaign battles...
However, I do like some things in MTW2 (and RTW, for that matter), namely the improved diplomacy (especially, or so it seems to me, in MTW2), the campaign map to determine the strategic outset for a battle, multiple stack battles instead of three hours waiting for the enemies´ reinforcements running out (yes, I had that happen), Spies and assassins that actually can do more than die, the new recruitment system (it would work so well with regional units). One thing I very much like about MTW 2 is the way the city defenses are handled now, no more auto-firing turrets when the defenders are a puny ten peasants huddled in the central square. That´s a major - and long overdue - improvement. Now, if my system only allowed me to play sieges as fluently as field battles...
I´m not yet decided whether the castle/city system is better or worse, at least it´s different.
I think part of the problem is, by using 2 years/turn and slowed movement across the map, they are trying to make the game last longer by pacing us... instead of making the AI more challenging (perhaps they weren't able to).
All of these assume the various things like towers and shields are fixed.
Things that should return
-Glorious Achievements
-Regional Units/Bonuses (tie it to settlements if you got to)
-Routing Faster/Rallying SLOWER (8 guys left decide to rally once their around my flank? That's just stupid. And cheap.)
-Faction Re-emergence. And Emergence! Anybody seen a Swiss faction??
-Civil Wars
-Internal Assassinations
-More distinctive unit advantages/disadvantages
-More specialist units
-Dismounting!
-1 year/turn
-Change of religion (from other TW games)
Things that should stay
-Diplomacy
-Reasonable Papal/Cardinal System (well, mostly.)
-Campaign map (nice being able to force the type of battlefield)
-Castle/City defense/income differences (could even be amplified)
Things that need to go
-Castle/City recruitment differences (The settlements still represent whole regions, not just their own walls. The unit difference feels forced.)
Things still missing
-Protestant Reformation (With change of religion and faction emergences, makes a GREAT late game complication when you'd thought it was won...)
If you did that there would be no point in having castles as you would just use all cities as they make more cash.Quote:
-Castle/City recruitment differences (The settlements still represent whole regions, not just their own walls. The unit difference feels forced.)
I liked the system MTW had for tracking your agents. Remeber the agent scroll?
If the agent was on a mission he/she was highlighted in red and it gave the location. You could click on that agent and the map would take you right to him/her. In M2TW I have to search all over the map to find them. I know you have the arrows you can click to browse through all your agents and generals, but it doesn't list them which makes a big difference.
I miss the ability of any Christian faction to call a crusade if you had advanced far enough in the tech tree. I had all but two crosses filled for Pope support. I requested a crusade and it got disapproved. THat's BS. Especially in light of the fact the Pope never allows me to take more than one Catholic city before telling me to cease hostilities. If I could crusade on my own I would rarely if ever attack the other Catholic nations.
I miss the Holy Roman Empire of MTW. It was fun. You were guaranteed to fight at least one huge civil war as HRE in MTW. It just added another dimension to the challenge. This is completely absent in M2TW.
I miss the Varangian Guard of MTW. I know everyone has their own opinion of who the best units are, but my Varangian dominated every opponent they took on in every battle. I loved my MTW Varangian. That's just not the way it is in M2TW.
I miss the Florins in MTW. I'm on my first campaign still in M2TW and maybe I just don't have the economics of this game figured out. But I made bucket loads of money in MTW. (By the way if someone could help me out with that in M2TW. I own all of the British Isles, all of France, half of Germany, Denmark, 2/3 of Spain, Jerusalem, Acre, Gaza, Alexandria and Cairo and at most can only come up with 12,000 florins per turn. Any advice or a link to a thread that already lays this out would be appreciated).
I miss the Mongols. Again, I'm on the first campaign still, but the Mongols came on the scene and conquered maybe 5 or 6 of the eastern provinces and sputtered out. Whereas in MTW they'd conquer almost all of the NE portion of the map and a lot of Asia Minor (unless I was playing as the Turks in which case I'd stop them).
ON THE FLIP SIDE; I THINK TO BE FAIR WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT WHAT ASPECTS OF M2TW WE ARE GLAD THEY ADDED.
First, I like the 3D map and the movement of the agents and armies on the board. That's a keeper in my book.
I do like the selection of crusading units when you do undertake a crusade.
I love the guilds. Holy Cow someone should get a big 30 foot diameter cookie for that addition.
The merchants are a good addition (not great, but good). I'd like to see them generate more quid. Again, maybe I just haven't figured out how to really use them.
I like the operation of the artillery. Last night I assaulted Cordona and had a mortar, a ribault and a bombard in my army. It was a full stack army. The Spaniards had about a 3/4 stack in garrison with elite troops. That mortar had those bastages two stepping all up and down the walls. I brought the wall down in two places and by the end game statistical count my 3 artillery pieces had killed ~300 people. Most of those died falling down with the walls. I never had a battle like that in MTW. Happened a couple times in RTW, but my siege machines never killed that many.
Naval units are better even though Naval play hasn't changed.
The fortresses and cities are much more detailed and realistic. Sometimes during a battle I just coast the streets with the camera admiring the handy work.
The stakes the archers emplace before a battle are a great idea. I love that. I use that feature like crazy. The rotten cow carcass firing Trebuchets were intriguing at first, but I'm over it and relatively unimpressed by that feature.
The black plague. Can I get another 30 foot diameter Chocolate Chip cookie with sprinkles for CA on that. I hate this event because since it has occured I have -12,000 florins in the bank and Marseille, Bruges and Caernervon have all revolted (right in the middle of my war with Spain and Denmark). But it, like the civil wars in MTW, add another dimension to the challenge. Now, imagine playing as HRE in MTW and a civil war breaking out. THen all of a sudden the plague hits. Man, I hope someone mods that.
I'm sure there's other things, but I figure none of you are reading this anymore so I'll just stop typing and post this thing already.
M2TW has at least as extensive a unit roster as MTW did. Take England, for example. Urban militia and militia sergeants are covered by town militia and heavy bill militia, while sword-armed MAAs are covered by dismounted feudal knights and armoured swordsmen. Plus this time you can recruit dismounted knights in the SP game. And of course, there are many more kinds of English archers in M2TW. Indeed, M2TW has more unique units for each faction and leads to less generic ("Catholic") armies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
Going back to the OP, I don't miss much from MTW. Better spears would be the big one, I guess. But I am hopeful that will come with the next patch.