The patch is here

Downloaded and installed, haven't toyed with the unpacker yet.

My brand spanking new impressions...

1. Unit cohesion seems to have improved markedly. Still could use some elbow grease, but it definitely feels better. Chasing down routers is still a bit lame, but at least they don't go all over kingdom come when doing so.

2. Infantry gunpowder reforming bug still exists. Jan. Musk. vs. Timurid Muskephants, my Jan's still get stuck in the reforming bit, BUT they will occasionally get a random shot off. Same with Jan. Musk. vs Scottish Noble Archers, they'll keep trying to reform instead of shooting and reloading.

3. As expected, the 2-hander bug still exists. My billmen won't swing a horses. Going to investigate the fix that Lusted and others came up with.

Overall not too bad for a first effort.

Good first impression here as well. Popped back home from work for a quick half hour burst on it just to see what it would be like. Attacked a 2/3 english stack with my full stack of milanese. I didn't get beaten but it was certainly a much action packed affair with the english having a good go at it. Suffered 300 casualties for 600 of theirs which I thought was ok considering I left my formation as the standard formation you start the battle with.

Pity the 2h bug isn't fixed yet but I'll go with putting Lusted's fix in place this weekend instead. At least the passive ai one is now sorted out ~:)

Seems like a good patch although some of my archers still think they're superman.

AI seems harder. It tried to flank my general (who was waiting on the east side of York to smash peasents as my spearment engaged them), with archers by moving out the north side. Turned out to be a bad move on the AI's part as the archers got mangled in a charge. Still better than anything it tried pre-patch.

Plus I suffered more losses in a bad rear charge against spearmen (didn't see em in with the peasants). Probably due to not killing as many in the initial charge :embarassed:

Shouldn't this be stickied?

thanks m8,downloaded in 2-4 mmiuntes :) :)!!

Ouch. Have to work for another 8 hours... But, from what I have read in other forums, it seems, the passive battle AI bug is still there and so is the seige bug. Any evidence among org-ers who already have their hands on the patch?

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Originally Posted by Slaists

Ouch. Have to work for another 8 hours... But, from what I have read in other forums, it seems, the passive battle AI bug is still there and so is the seige bug. Any evidence among org-ers who already have their hands on the patch?

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Which siege bug? Can you point to a thread? I can't confirm or deny either of those.

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Originally Posted by Whacker

Which siege bug? Can you point to a thread? I can't confirm or deny either of those.

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http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=73576&page=3

see the post by Zhuge Liang

Is it save compatible?
And I created a mod with a 1 year per turn timescale, if I load the savegame, will it be patched?

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Originally Posted by Slaists

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=73576&page=3

see the post by Zhuge Liang

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Yuck, thanks for the link. I didn't play enough to notice any problems with the AI in a siege, but I thankfully never did experience the siege slowdown bug.

I also noticed this in that thread:

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Originally Posted by TB666 http://www.twcenter.net/forums/image...s/viewpost.gif
Well I have tried a few custom battles so far I haven't had any problems with infantry charging, their formation was whole and the guys in the back didn't stop.
Also gunpowder units fire even when taking casulties.

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Taken at face value, yes it's my experience that gunpowder units fire when taking casualties. BUT, the true response to this is it's still broken, my guys still get stuck in the reforming bit and for the most part will not shoot back. They do occasionally shoot, but it's so infrequent and rare compared to how much they should be shooting back is that the real answer in my mind is it's still busted. :wall:

So does the patch work with ongoing campaign saves? Or does it require starting over :furious3: (in which case I may finish this game before d/l the patch)?

The patch is save-compatable apparently.

Ooo, patch! Yay!

*looks at his desk and the huge pile of work*
*sobs*

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Originally Posted by Whacker

3. As expected, the 2-hander bug still exists. My billmen won't swing a horses. Going to investigate the fix that Lusted and others came up with.

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It's weird that the TotalWarBlog.com entry specifically mentions the improved axemen and billmen. Yet it's not mentioned in the bug fixes nor, based on your experience, any more effective.

Hmmmph.


-Fizz

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Originally Posted by Fizz

It's weird that the TotalWarBlog.com entry specifically mentions the improved axemen and billmen. Yet it's not mentioned in the bug fixes nor, based on your experience, any more effective.

Hmmmph.

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That because that is the planned fixes for the 2nd patch.

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Originally Posted by Whacker

2. Infantry gunpowder reforming bug still exists. Jan. Musk. vs. Timurid Muskephants, my Jan's still get stuck in the reforming bit, BUT they will occasionally get a random shot off. Same with Jan. Musk. vs Scottish Noble Archers, they'll keep trying to reform instead of shooting and reloading.

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I think the issue here is that when the unit is under fire, they will sooner or later lose parts of their third rank and that messes up their rotation cycle because they cannot properly rotate a full rank anymore. Haven't tried with more than three ranks yet but the bug before was that they wouldn't fire anymore at all, now they just fire less often which seems normal considering that they are missing some men who would be able to fire in the gaps. The remaining musketeers simply won't reload faster so I guess they rotate until the entire frontline has loaded muskets and then fire a volley. If you don't like it, put them on skirmish which ends the rotation completely, they will now kneel to reload and then fire again, but not in volleys(you can imagine the men from the rear give their muskets to them men from the front and play reloaders, maybe it's even meant this way).

And the next patch'll be due in... February. So look for it March or April.

Oy vey...

the rendering is slow on the larger cities as well, so "auto-resolve" is still the only real way to fight the top 3 city sieges (city, min city, large city) or the top castles (castle, fortress, citadel).

interesting not, when you turn the camera away from the city and face out into just the hills, the lag all goes away. so, if you don't mind fighting blind.... ; )

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Originally Posted by Husar

I think the issue here is that when the unit is under fire, they will sooner or later lose parts of their third rank and that messes up their rotation cycle because they cannot properly rotate a full rank anymore. Haven't tried with more than three ranks yet but the bug before was that they wouldn't fire anymore at all, now they just fire less often which seems normal considering that they are missing some men who would be able to fire in the gaps. The remaining musketeers simply won't reload faster so I guess they rotate until the entire frontline has loaded muskets and then fire a volley. If you don't like it, put them on skirmish which ends the rotation completely, they will now kneel to reload and then fire again, but not in volleys(you can imagine the men from the rear give their muskets to them men from the front and play reloaders, maybe it's even meant this way).

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Gruessen Sie Herr Husar

I only tend to use gunpowder units in two ranks, as they don't suffer from depth/rank penalties and hence kill rates improve. There doesn't seem to be much sense to the way they operate when under fire anyway, if the status given in the mouseover and their animations are evidence and accurate. When functioning normally and not taking hits, they'll fire and rotate as intended. Once under fire, they'll seemingly randomly switch between reforming, reloading, and idle and very rarely get a shot off. Skirmish and fire at will don't seem to make any differences in this. /shrug

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And the next patch'll be due in... February. So look for it March or April.

Oy vey...

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Now, now...be fair. This is pretty quick for them to release the first patch, in my opinion. The fact that they already acknowledge the need for a second and are planning to implement one is fantastic. Or at least a lot better than some companies do.

Can someone, anyone confirm that they were able to d/l the new patch, install it, and successfully re-load an existing campaign game?

I'd like to rock these fixes, but not at the risk of having to start my campaign over.

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Originally Posted by Whacker

Yuck, thanks for the link. I didn't play enough to notice any problems with the AI in a siege, but I thankfully never did experience the siege slowdown bug.

I also noticed this in that thread:


Taken at face value, yes it's my experience that gunpowder units fire when taking casualties. BUT, the true response to this is it's still broken, my guys still get stuck in the reforming bit and for the most part will not shoot back. They do occasionally shoot, but it's so infrequent and rare compared to how much they should be shooting back is that the real answer in my mind is it's still busted. :wall:

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Just think of it as gun jam... or dropping their primer to the ground in the heat of battle.... i'm sure the rate of fire was pretty damn horrible then and their guns unreliable--for pete sakes they didn't even have replaceable parts or standard issued ammos, so be creative in your imagination.

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Originally Posted by BeeSting

Just think of it as gun jam... or dropping their primer to the ground in the heat of battle.... i'm sure the rate of fire was pretty damn horrible then and their guns unreliable--for pete sakes they didn't even have replaceable parts or standard issued ammos, so be creative in your imagination.

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Careful... they might use THIS as the "fix" in the next patch: "just use your imagination, folks..."

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Originally Posted by BeeSting

Just think of it as gun jam... or dropping their primer to the ground in the heat of battle.... i'm sure the rate of fire was pretty damn horrible then and their guns unreliable--for pete sakes they didn't even have replaceable parts or standard issued ammos, so be creative in your imagination.

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I can understand that for maybe one or two guys not firing each round, which would make some sense. However, the ENTIRE group of guys not doing so? For several rounds on end before they get a shot off?? People that have been training and drilling to know their firearms well and how to work them? Don't discount them just because there was no standardization, these men made war for a living and knew their weapons very well and how to use them as a cohesive unit, even in the heat of battle.

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Careful... they might use THIS as the "fix" in the next patch: "just use your imagination, folks..."

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:laugh4: :2thumbsup:

The patch seems to work fine for my 1.0 saves. I've played my old campaign for several hours and fought a couple dozzon battles. No instances of passive AI or anything. However this is with the steam version so I dont know about normal DVD version.

However the problem im having is getting unlimited men on the battlefield to work.

I added the launch option string in steam "Set Launch Options" But all I get is a fatal error messege box. It isnt just the steam version either because I asked a friend of mine with the DVD version to test it. Same error.

Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by Dearmad

Careful... they might use THIS as the "fix" in the next patch: "just use your imagination, folks..."

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LOL... thanks,

as it stands now though, with the game, the gunpowder units are too efficient for what they really were for the period.

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Originally Posted by Whacker

I can understand that for maybe one or two guys not firing each round, which would make some sense. However, the ENTIRE group of guys not doing so? For several rounds on end before they get a shot off?? People that have been training and drilling to know their firearms well and how to work them? Don't discount them just because there was no standardization, these men made war for a living and knew their weapons very well and how to use them as a cohesive unit, even in the heat of battle.



:laugh4: :2thumbsup:

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I'm just stating the fact....

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Originally Posted by Whacker

Chasing down routers is still a bit lame, but at least they don't go all over kingdom come when doing so.

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I have to retract this statement. They go all over the place still, spreading out in every direction instead of staying as a group. :wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

Still @ work and havent got the time to try the patch until I punch out...

I just wondering that is the passive AI still exists in most of the battle or the chances of having them is reduced??

To be honest, I dont really trust most ppl on the TWC (or .com) anymore (bunch of hypocritical whiners who dont critize constructively yet claim to do so + blow every negative bit way over proportion:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: ).. I kinda need an really honest and no-BS assessment.

thanks in advance

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Originally Posted by mor dan

interesting not, when you turn the camera away from the city and face out into just the hills, the lag all goes away. so, if you don't mind fighting blind.... ; )

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You can also experiment with angling the camera inside the city....in certain directions the graphics slowdown goes away. Something inside the city apparently causes the slowdown, but I can't work out what.