Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
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None of those seem like “excrement” to me.
I know , thats the problem :idea2:
So which part ......
Without a strong economy the west will fall like a ton of bricks.
Well that is debatable , but weakening the economy by screwing with markets for petty political aims instead of sound business practice weakens the economy , diverting cash and resources in pointless ventures weakens the economy .
Who cares if an enemy is democratically elected, they are still an enemy and should be dealt with.
It matters to the people who elected them , when you screw over a government that you don't like you also screw over all the people who elected them . They will not like that , they will remember it for a long time , their neighbours will also remember it for a long time . So for a pointless short term fix you build yourself some massive widespread long term problems .
I like the idea of bringing friendly (to us) democracy to places that have unfriendly (to us) dictators, but I don’t mind coup’ing unfriendly (to us) democracies and replacing them with friendly (to us) democracies.
See above :idea2:
If you think about it, supporting a coup to replace an unfriendly government with one that is friendly is a pretty nice alternative compared to bombing the crap out of them or invading them ala Iraq
Nope , since there are other alternatives , and supporting the coup can be a lot worse for you in the long run .
In hindsight do you think the Iraq people would choose an Iraq invasion or a Saddam coup?
With the way events have turned out perhaps in hindsight they would have prefered neither . It really comes to something when there are sections of the Iraqi population who really got put through the grinder with saddam saying they wish he was back in power .
Coup isn’t so bad if it means that the US isn’t wrecking your country.
A coup doesn't neccasarily mean that the US isn't wrecking your country , neither does that take into consideration that the coup and resulting regime may well wreck the country just as much .
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Let's go easy on the feces similies & metaphors, lest someone accidentally steps in a pile and needs Moderator "help".
OK , I shall refer to it as badly thought out rubbish instead .
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
Without a strong economy the west will fall like a ton of bricks.
Well that is debatable,
Debatable?!? If I have ever said anything more true I would like to know what it was. The west (US in particular) has worked very well with many other countries in economic terms, but of course the squeaky wheels get the attention.
It matters to the people who elected them , when you screw over a government that you don't like you also screw over all the people who elected them . They will not like that , they will remember it for a long time , their neighbours will also remember it for a long time . So for a pointless short term fix you build yourself some massive widespread long term problems .
If a people have elected a government that promotes unfriendliness to the US, then the people have been misled and deserve (for the benefit of the US) to be enlightened. Trouble is we don’t typically fully enlighten and you are right, that leads to people disliking and holding a grudge against us. The US has supported plenty of coups, more than I thought after just a little digging, and all those countries don’t hate us any more than the average. Not all are shining beacons of hope and prosperity, we can’t all be Norway ~D but they are not all Iraq either.
Nope , since there are other alternatives
Sure there are more options than I listed but of the 3, coup, bombing and invading the coup is more desirable to me in most cases.
With the way events have turned out perhaps in hindsight they would have preferred neither.
Well then they (the people of Iraq) should have controlled their countries leadership so that they didn’t break UN rules and taunt the US every chance they got. The best lesson from the past couple of decades is that if you don’t want your country to get all messed up, don’t piss on the US, or do it with a European accent; we are suckers for them, but not for open antagonism.
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
You want freedom. Choose the Timon way and abandon society....abandon all....stop paying taxes. Taxes are the ropes of tirany. A tax payer is a subject....not a free man. You want to be free.....pay no taxes.
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
Yes very debatable , while the strengh of the economy may have some relation to the metophoric gravitational influence on a ton of bricks , it is not the be all and end all, and since the policies that you advocate end up harming the western economy then what planet must you be on to try and make such a case in the fiorst place ?
But you don't see that do you .
Hence.......I know , thats the problem :idea2:
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If a people have elected a government that promotes unfriendliness to the US, If a people have elected a government that promotes unfriendliness to the US, then the people have been misled and deserve (for the benefit of the US) to be enlightened. Trouble is we don’t typically fully enlighten and you are right, that leads to people disliking and holding a grudge against us. The US has supported plenty of coups, more than I thought after just a little digging, and all those countries don’t hate us any more than the average. Not all are shining beacons of hope and prosperity, we can’t all be Norway but they are not all Iraq either.
and deserve (for the benefit of the US) to be enlightened. Trouble is we don’t typically fully enlighten and you are right, that leads to people disliking and holding a grudge against us. The US has supported plenty of coups, more than I thought after just a little digging, and all those countries don’t hate us any more than the average. Not all are shining beacons of hope and prosperity, we can’t all be Norway but they are not all Iraq either.
Sorry 'bout this Kukri , but a definate faeces similie is required there , since that post is an absolute crock of manure, in fact its more than a crock its a whole industrial farms slurry pit . Entirely devoid of any rational thought whatsoever , a recipe for self perpetuating effluent discharge.......of the bovine variety .
BTW yesdachi , you speak of average countries hatred for your foriegn policy .
How do you measure average ? is it countries screwed over , countries whose neighbours were screwed over , or countries who watched other countries get screwed over ?
Now don't get me wrong , many powerful nations do this crap , China and Russia being good current and past examples , but they don't try and sell the freedom and democracy rubbish that your tries to sell .
Sop I will highlight one part of your passage there....... then the people have been misled
....and ask if you yourself have been seriously misled . Considering......more than I thought after just a little digging......does suggest that perhaps you may not be so much misled , as just uninformed .
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Sure there are more options than I listed but of the 3, coup, bombing and invading the coup is more desirable to me in most cases.
Wow you didn't add a whole new option , or several . So without the options then all you are left with is which rubbish might be least trashy.
Not a very clever approach :thumbsdown:
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Well then they (the people of Iraq) should have controlled their countries leadership so that they didn’t break UN rules and taunt the US every chance they got.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Damnit Kukri , surely that little gem deserves a waiver on the "visit from the moderator front" .
But OK I shall try and steer awar from the Steer waste approach .
So now Yesterday . :dizzy2:
You have this nice dictatorship that has been supported to varying degrees , that came about and remained in power through the "our interests" foriegn policies of several powerful nations . That had its peoples attempts (even when they were encouraged) put down brutally with the assistance of those powers and the weapons , finance and intelligence they supplied . Had those same people listed as criminal terrorist subversives who were a threat to your own national interests .
And now .....YOU WANT TO BLAME THEM FOR IT ???????????
Fruityloopymoonbat:furious3:
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
Wow. A coprological tour-de-force, worthy of John Bourke's Scatologic Rites of All Nations, right here on our stage (I lost count after the fifth reference). I don't know about you guys, but I feel absolutely covered with - um, honor. Well, it's warm anyway.
While I can appreciate the absurdist humor, please let's not beat the uh, stuffing, out of this dead horse.
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
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Originally Posted by Tribesman
Fruityloopymoonbat:furious3:
I don’t even know where to begin… perhaps first I will put on some waders to avoid some of the poo you are tossing! ~D
…where to begin, ah, the economy. The US’s economy drives the world (some exceptions) I don’t see how that can even be disputed. Our capitalism is not always very ethical especially in regards to other countries but it is what makes the world go round. Is there ever a grand venture started in another country that doesn’t consider how America’s economy will affect it? How many projects were put on hold to see how America would rebound after 911? Consider them rhetorical questions; I’m sure you would just throw poo at them anyhow.
Now without trying to separate all the poo from the apologies from the actual argument against my responses I will just say that countries that actively oppose the US are foolish and the leaders are only using the easy target to bolster their position, not for the benefit of their country, because countries that are friendly to the US are better off. Big or small who hasn’t benefited from peaceful relations with the US? China has come a long way since befriending us and other smaller countries wouldn’t even exist without our aid and protection (heck even countries that hate us get our aid). What do countries that oppose the US get? Ask Saddam before his neck is stretched, they get screwed, if he spent half as much time and energy running his country as he did waving his finger at the US he would still be in a golden palace rather than getting a golden shower.
If it is fair to say that Americans are responsible for the quagmire that Bush has made of Iraq isn’t it equally fair to say that the Iraq people are responsible for the actions of their former president? Sure we supported him for some time and that is what makes it even more foolish for him to have opposed us, he had it made if he dad just acted reasonably. You said that in hindsight they (Iraq) would have preferred neither a coup nor an invasion and to that I said that the people should have controlled their leadership better and they wouldn’t have had to worry about it. If we are not happy with Bush’s leadership isn’t it our fault for supporting him? Isn’t it their fault for supporting Saddam’s opposition of us? Shouldn’t they have been a little more informed about the consequences of opposing the US? Shouldn’t the American citizens have been a little more informed about the consequences of removing a hydra’s head? Throw poo on it all you want but the Iraq people are every bit as responsible for the state their country is in as the Americans are for the state of theirs. :juggle2:
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
Why, of course, my ascension to powe-- er, nothing. Move along. :vanish:
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
I say we have a good ol fashioned revolution here in America. Down with the goverment, death the tyrants who call themselves presidents!
viva la resistance!
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
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If it is fair to say that Americans are responsible for the quagmire that Bush has made of Iraq isn’t it equally fair to say that the Iraq people are responsible for the actions of their former president?
Not at all , since people had a choice in whether to vote for your President , they had a choice if they wanted to vocally object to his policies .
Nice simple choices .
The Iraqis had a choices too .
Speak up and get fed through an industrial meat grinder .
Get the hell out of the place and then speak up while hoping that the place to which you fled doesn't treat you as a nasty terrorist .
Join a nice little rebellion and have the foriegners who don't really like the nasty dictator and wish the locals would do something , turn round and decide that the rebellious locals are not really their cup of tea and its better to have the nasty little dictator in place slaughtering the rebels and their families .
So no , no bloody way is it fair to allocate that as equal responsibilty on the citizens part .
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
I'd just like to interject my personal thanks to all concerned for their observance of my obviously silly request for civility and honorable conduct in words towards each other in this delicate thread.
You see, I've been assigned to this forum, but not yet given the tools to Moderate it after 3 days. Rather like training infantrymen with broomsticks, I guess. So I've been forced to use my persuasive and diplomatic skils - which, judging by this thread, are = nil, zero, nada, ziltch.
So, you Lads go along, please. Have your flamewar, since you apparently want one. I'll keep saying, ineffectually, "Stop", "Don't", "Please". Eventually, an Admin will come along and take care of this.
Regards,
your friend in ignominity,
Kukri
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
Kukri , surely there is nothing in either the content or tone of that last post that is inflammatory , uncivil or dishonourable .
With the possible exception of the 4th word of the last line .
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
How odd I tought we were going to discuss Bush...
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
I skipped the last 5 or so posts so this might be a little off topic but what you guys were saying about civil rights violations during ww2 and the civil war, etc. made me think of this. Is it possible that the US isn't and wasn't free at all? Is it possible that we have been brainwashed into believing that it is? The constituition and the bill of rights could have been written to make us believe that we are,and even if it was written with good intent it doesn't stop anyone. As long as the government has the military/lies and excuses to enforce what it does it can do whatever the hell it feels like.
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
Wel lLignator ,possibly ,but the church hearings did show to some extent that illegal and uncositutional actions by agencies of the government may eventually be bought to the attention of the electorate (if they can be bothered to hear) .:juggle2:
Re: The biggest threat to the "free world".
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Originally Posted by Tribesman
... the church hearings did show to some extent that illegal and uncositutional actions by agencies of the government may eventually be bought to the attention of the electorate (if they can be bothered to hear) .:juggle2:
Aye. The crucial bit, that. Of which I despair lately.
