Saddam Dead by Sunday

My opinion is that those Spec ops who found him from that hole he was hiding should have shot him on that hole and presented that body to masses.As ridiculous it might sound,some people will now see him as Martyr and try to avenge him.

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

The civilized crowd of the backroom sickens me. To read that people are enjoying even jubilating another individuals death makes me wonder how far our supposed western liberal-deomocratic tradition have actually come?

I will ask the mods to make sure that no triumphing is done (it has been illegal before here to do that) and I see no difference in this thread.

On punishments. You punish someone for a crime he has done, in order to return to the harmony or balance there once were between the perpetrator and the community. When he is punished that balance is once again restored and thus the actions of the criminal have been paid for or in other word has been justified and his actions forgiven. I do not see how mass-murderers and evil tyrants can ever be forgiven their actions and thus a punishment cannot be given. This is the problem Hannah Arendt raises in the book Eichmann in Jerusalem. Makes you think, no?

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Sjakihata. I agree that the glee that some are portraying is weird, but I don't think it is "sickening" (just a natural emotional reaction that some do not suppress).

On the issue of punishment, you hold that punishment is used "in order to return to the harmony..." Others (like me) hold that punishment also serves a retribution function, and thus Saddam's execution is completely justifiable.

Navaros: Saddam was a secularist who used to put down religion by force when he deemed it necessary.

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Originally Posted by article

Saddam Hussein may be hanged within hours, senior Iraqi officials and the ousted president's defence team said on Friday.

One senior Iraqi source told Reuters key legal issues had been resolved and he could go to the gallows shortly. Another official said Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki was meeting key figures, including the Justice Minister, to agree the details.

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Article

Just to make things confusing:

US officials have denied reports that former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has been transferred to Iraqi custody, as speculation mounts about his execution.

Saddam Hussein's lawyers earlier said they had been notified of his handover ... "There has been no change in his (Saddam Hussein's) status," US State Department spokesman Tom Casey said late on Friday.

They're not going to advertise when custody is transferred or when exactly the execution is going to take place. They'll do it was quietly as possible and just videotape it for proof that it actually happened.

To make a big production of it ahead of time would only allow for the possibility of some loyalist whackos going on a killing spree to try and free him.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Just like imprisoning criminals doesnt stop theives. Executions serve as a deterent, a public statement of what happens if your caught.
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yeah, despite what all psychological tests have shown us!

BTW: isn't he going to be killed after that Sjiietic (English word for Sjiïetisch?) holiday?

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Originally Posted by Patriarch of Constantinople

No he wasn't. You know why? He wasn't giving a "fair trial" to the 100 or so Shiites he killed and gassed. Why do you even give these people trials? We know he's guilty, hang the guy. I think the execution method is highly innapropriate. Let's kill him by the way he's lived: by gas or gun.

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He's a witch! Burn 'im!

How do you know he is a witch?

He looks like one! Burn 'im!

Honestly, are you kidding me? "Why do we even give these people trials?"

Are you seriously suggesting that death penalties (or any penalties, for that matter) should be able to be handed out without trial?

Give your head a shake...

:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by gert

BTW: isn't he going to be killed after that Sjiietic (English word for Sjiïetisch?) holiday?

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or before, which is within an hour.

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Originally Posted by Gertgregoor

yeah, despite what all psychological tests have shown us!

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well, the nuremburg trials are what convinced me not to lead a populist revolution in canada, overthrowing the government, instituting a totalitarian regime and "purging" all the quebecois. i was just about to do all that, and then i was like, "man, if i get caught, they'll go straight nuremburg on me!"

so yeah, hanging saddam will be a great deterrent to future tyrants.

wait.. WHAAA!?? :dizzy2::dizzy2::dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

or before, which is within an hour.

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I don't think that will happen, as the president of Iraq would be present. Yet he will not be able to be there as he will return after the holiday. And I guess he already is gone by now. However we'll find out quite soon.

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Originally Posted by Big_John

well, the nuremburg trials are what convinced me not to lead a populist revolution in canada, overthrowing the government, instituting a totalitarian regime and "purging" all the quebecois. i was just about to do all that, and then i was like, "man, if i get caught, they'll go straight nuremburg on me!"

so yeah, hanging saddam will be a great deterrent to future tyrants.

wait.. WHAAA!?? :dizzy2::dizzy2::dizzy2:

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So if you were setenced to prison for life if you got caught, you would do it?

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Originally Posted by Goofball

He's a witch! Burn 'im!

How do you know he is a witch?

He looks like one! Burn 'im!

Honestly, are you kidding me? "Why do we even give these people trials?"

Are you seriously suggesting that death penalties (or any penalties, for that matter) should be able to be handed out without trial?

Give your head a shake...

:inquisitive:

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Do you think there's even the remotest possibility that Saddam was innocent? That it was all just a big misunderstanding?

I am always amused by the fact that Atheists oppose the death penalty and Christians favor it. (Generally speaking of course.)

And so-called bleeding heart liberals actually give less despite being wealthier. http://www.arthurbrooks.net/about.html

heh heh

*Scampers away from pot whilst holding spoon.*

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

I am always amused by the fact that Atheists oppose the death penalty and Christians favor it. (Generally speaking of course.)

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You're only capturing half of the irony there, DA. Not to utterly derail the thread, but to extend your comparison, Christian fundamentalists tend to favor the death penalty but oppose abortion. Atheists tend to oppose the death penalty and favor abortion.

I guess it's all in the timing.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

He's a witch! Burn 'im!

How do you know he is a witch?

He looks like one! Burn 'im!

Honestly, are you kidding me? "Why do we even give these people trials?"

Are you seriously suggesting that death penalties (or any penalties, for that matter) should be able to be handed out without trial?

Give your head a shake...

:inquisitive:

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You're right. He never did anything. He never killed those Shiites or Kurds. He never invaded Kuwait. His regime never fell. Those were all propaganda lies. Really the whole witch thing made no sense. You don't recognize a crazy totalarian who kills by his looks, but by his actions.


YOU should be giving your head a shake.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

This is absolutely sickening that they will be murdering Saddam.

He was not given a trial. He was merely given a farce masquerading as a trial in order to pretend that murdering him via hanging will not be murder.

The soldiers who found him might as well have shot him the head when he came out of the spider hole. At least then the murder of Saddam wouldn't have tried to have been covered up via a totally illegitimate, fake trial.

Totally disgusting that some posts are making a joke out of Saddam's murder.

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Did he give those Shiites A Fair trial? Did he give all the people he killed a fair trial. Last time I check, he didn't.:no: :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by {BHC}KingWarman888

Did he give those Shiites A Fair trial? Did he give all the people he killed a fair trial. Last time I check, he didn't.:no: :inquisitive:

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HEY! :furious3: Copier! :no:


:beam:

less than 3 hours....

Im actually gonna play devils advocate here and agree with the posters who have not applauded the trial and conviction of saddam.

I also think many here are missing the point- the issue is not if saddam is guilty or not...its about 1 million to 1 that he is actually innocent- the primary issue is the legality of the court to judge him in the first place.

Lets look at the recent history of Iraq-

1-US invades without even the decency of a formal declaration of war.

2-Invasion justified on the grounds of finding and removing WMDs.

3-No WMD were (or have been) found and 'surprisingly' the invasion then changes to a 'regime change' mission...ethically questionable and certainly miles away from the original plan (even if the original goal was justified...)

4-US occupiers install provisional government and then Iraqi people forced into a 'democratic' election process (regardless of whether they want it or not) where Ba'ath party members are not allowed to run for office...(good start for a democracy eh?)

5-Quasi legitimate (at best) government (with some heavy US poking) tries saddam.


So- some questions to ponder...

If saddam was the legitimate leader of a sovereign nation- who are we to pass judgement on how the law/the rules/whatever you want to call it
are dispeansed?

How can a court concieved in such a manner be considered true and just to dispense punishment?

Can anyone honestly say that the killing of a killer is ultimately better than adherence to and respect of- the law?

(please no - 'but saddam didnt respect the law' and such statements- coz that is not the issue.

Commence ranting! :beam:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Good riddance... he's a monster.

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I wonder how many politicians and leaders throught history could receive that title. Yet there's only a few whom apparently had fell from humanity and ended being hanged, where others were praised.

My intention is not to defend Saddam, but to defend humanity. If this kind of appreaciation threads keep popping up I think it speaks for itself what an HUMAN can do and is willing to accept to feel comfortable. Not a MONSTER but an HUMAN.

In other news an human is going to be executed on sunday...

Soulforged its A human not An human. An only applies to words that start with vowles:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by lancelot

If saddam was the legitimate leader of a sovereign nation- who are we to pass judgement on how the law/the rules/whatever you want to call it
are dispeansed?

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Good arguments. As for passing judgement on him. We have the power to impose the judgements that's how we pass the laws/rules. Thats how any court can pass it's laws. We are currently the worlds super power, we not only have the ability to pass judgement, but the power to enforce those judgments irrelevant of the sovereignty of that nation. This is how it's always been. Look through history, how could one pass punishment on Napoleon?

We have not only the ability to pass judgement but the strength to enforce the judgement thats why we can dispensed us. It has always been this way, it will always be this way. The strong do as they please the weak suffer what they must

Pax Americania.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

Good arguments. As for passing judgement on him. We have the power to impose the judgements that's how we pass the laws/rules. Thats how any court can pass it's laws. We are currently the worlds super power, we not only have the ability to pass judgement, but the power to enforce those judgments irrelevant of the sovereignty of that nation. This is how it's always been. Look through history, how could one pass punishment on Napoleon?

We have not only the ability to pass judgement but the strength to enforce the judgement thats why we can dispensed us. It has always been this way, it will always be this way. The strong do as they please the weak suffer what they must

Pax Americania.

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Then hope you don't upset too many people now, because when your time passes and someone else is in the top position, people will remember how you behaved when you were strong. We managed the transition without too much rancour because, in the end, we listened to others. For someone who was at the top for so long, the British aren't hated as much as could be expected. How will America be remembered by posterity?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Then hope you don't upset too many people now, because when your time passes and someone else is in the top position, people will remember how you behaved when you were strong. We managed the transition without too much rancour because, in the end, we listened to others. For someone who was at the top for so long, the British aren't hated as much as could be expected. How will America be remembered by posterity?

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This is how it was how it always will be. The strong have the ability to impose itself on the weaker, it is human nature to do so. I suspect in the coming centuries as America's power waynes others will fill it's place and continue on the traditional role of superpowers. Granted that being a whole bunch don't try to fill the growing vacume at once, that causes chaos. But is generally what follows most of the Paxes.

As for the british transition, I suppose your right. Didn't go rancour, you handled it well. The middle east and the parts of your african colonies are civilized contributers to the world. Definately no hatred of the UK being bread in those parts. Just look at them, nearly UK jr's.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

This is how it was how it always will be. The strong have the ability to impose itself on the weaker, it is human nature to do so. I suspect in the coming centuries as America's power waynes others will fill it's place and continue on the traditional role of superpowers. Granted that being a whole bunch don't try to fill the growing vacume at once, that causes chaos. But is generally what follows most of the Paxes.

As for the british transition, I suppose your right. Didn't go rancour, you handled it well. The middle east and the parts of your african colonies are civilized contributers to the world. Definately no hatred of the UK being bread in those parts. Just look at them, nearly UK jr's.

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For an example of the transition put in place by the British, you might want to look at British and Italian Somaliland. Italian Somaliland is the part of Somalia you see in the news. British Somaliland is the part of Somalia that is stable, has a fusion of Muslim culture and British civil infrastructure, and wants independence to get away from the troubles of its bigger relative. You might also want to look at how many countries voluntarily joined the British Commonwealth, a vehicle for political and cultural discussion open to former colonies of the British empire (they weren't obliged to join). Heck, even some newly independent countries who weren't part of the British empire applied to join, when there were no tangible benefits beyond being able to share the political and cultural exchanges. We accepted the first few, but turned down the others when the organisation was becoming too unwieldy. Within the Commonwealth, smaller nations who might otherwise be ignored or bullied were able to form regional alliances to take care of their respective areas, in the knowledge that the rest of the Commonwealth would support them in this.

How many former British colonies hate the British as much as you imply? Even Iraq was quite Anglophilic before the 2003 war.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

For an example of the transition put in place by the British, you might want to look at British and Italian Somaliland. Italian Somaliland is the part of Somalia you see in the news. British Somaliland is the part of Somalia that is stable, has a fusion of Muslim culture and British civil infrastructure, and wants independence to get away from the troubles of its bigger relative. You might also want to look at how many countries voluntarily joined the British Commonwealth, a vehicle for political and cultural discussion open to former colonies of the British empire (they weren't obliged to join). Heck, even some newly independent countries who weren't part of the British empire applied to join, when there were no tangible benefits beyond being able to share the political and cultural exchanges. We accepted the first few, but turned down the others when the organisation was becoming too unwieldy. Within the Commonwealth, smaller nations who might otherwise be ignored or bullied were able to form regional alliances to take care of their respective areas, in the knowledge that the rest of the Commonwealth would support them in this.

How many former British colonies hate the British as much as you imply? Even Iraq was quite Anglophilic before the 2003 war.

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One African country (don't even remember the name) still has close ties with Britain, even though they gained independance.

Pann that's a select few countries that have managed to remain stable after the british hastily pulled out. But for the most part they have collapsed. Breed quite alot of resentment. Just look at your old middle eastern holdings. The withdrawal/collapse of the british empire has brought little good to it's old colonies. But the collapse of any empire rarely brings good tidings to it's old subjects.

As for Saddam, the deed is done, good riddance. I hope he recieves a proper islamic burrial.

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Originally Posted by lancelot

So- some questions to ponder...

If saddam was the legitimate leader of a sovereign nation- who are we to pass judgement on how the law/the rules/whatever you want to call it
are dispeansed?

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Indeed, what business is it of ours if a murderous dictator wants to gas hundreds of thousands of his citizens... :no:

Iraqi State TV has confirmed that Saddam Hussein is now dead.

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Originally Posted by NagatsukaShumi

Iraqi State TV has confirmed that Saddam Hussein is now dead.

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you beat me to it :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

:dancing: :boxing: ~:cheers: ~:cheers: