It can't be, can it?...*whispers* Abokasse?
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It can't be, can it?...*whispers* Abokasse?
who the hell is that?
*whispers* Some say a genious, others a madman...a few call him a prophet...who knows...
he sounds like a dumbass to me...
Wow the intelligence of this thread just dropped to zero.
Thou shalt not typo the name of our saviour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasm
Thou shalt not pass judgement unto others based on their grammatical mishaps (except if the name of our saviour is typoed).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lignator
Thou shalt not evaluate the intelligence of a thread by it's content... no wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen851
Matter resolved, judgement has been passed.
Now... a big hug!
~:grouphug:
Repent you sinners.
...ok...joke's over... :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lignator
Someone called?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lignator
~ Death Comes to you ~Quote:
Originally Posted by Lignator
Dont tell me you don't know me? Im the god of bartix!
:weirdthread:
Anyway, back on topic:
Spartans... a weird bunch, huh? Not too laid back, a little too serious if you ask me... All in all, pretty nice people.
Does anyone have anything to add to this?
I have not played with KH in 0.8, just because they are going to make a lot of changes to that faction in 0.81.
I think that Spartans in EB must have the same stats as a classical hoplite since they both use the same weapons. The only thing I would chage is making them have a huge moral boost so that they all decide to die fightin before running away.
I would also change, more than their cost, the time they take to be trained. I think like 3 or 4 turns to show the little population of Sparta and the hard training of this guys.
I dont think the stats are merely a reflection of the type of weapons. If you give a farmer the same spear as a soldier trained from childhood, theres no way he would be able to do the same damage. Knowing how to use the weapon effectively is a large part of being dangerous.
Such as? (just curious)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduorius
I'm not sure but I believe it's done like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kugutsu
Elites have a greater chance at doing a succesfull hit than peasants. But the lethilty of weapon is the same or something.
Well I heard that King Areus will start with better units like Spartans and Cretan Archers. I think all the region of Greece will have changes in the army composition at the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlax999
On the other theme what people are saying is correct. I didnt tought of that, but a strong guy does more harm with a spear than a weak one.
Well surely the "Defence Skill" of a unit is based on skill and can therefore be increased with elites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moros
It's also interesting how RTW doesn't have an "attack skill" and say "weapon quality"... or are those combined for the melee/missile attack? It's just that Attack and Defence seem to work differently in how they are worked out/represented. Not the best sentence i've uttered but surely you know what i mean.
Oh yeah spartans... Nice enough guys (aye Thaatu)... But bad breath... real bad. :yes:. *Waiting patiently to see if anyone gets my not-so-funny-cryptic-joke*
Units have both the actual attack score (you know, the one that shows up on the info card and goes up with exp and weapon upgrades) and a lethality rate (the last number on the weapon statline in the EDU if you're interested). The EB team clearly have a system for allocating the former, but they've fixed the latter by weapon type. For example, daggers and knives have the feeble "kill rate" of 0.04; infantry spears 0.125 or 0.13 (both appear in the EDU); mid-sized swords 0.13, axes 0.165, longswords 0.225, kontos lances a whopping 0.4... Mind you' I've no idea what the "kill rate" values mean in entirely practical terms beyond "higher is more killy", but I wouldn't be surprised if the nosy folks who post at Ludus Magna had figured it out long ago.
Anyway, far as I can tell the Spartan stats relative to those of standard Classical Hoplites seem to be pretty much in line with the usual difference between line troops and well-equipped elites in EB.
.125 is for underhand spears while .13 is for overhand. Overhand spears get less of a bonus against cavalry though.
So that's what it was. Wondered about that for a while.
actually, if you put the EB Spartans in HOLD they can kick some serious ass.
p.s lost my RTW CD!!!!!!!!!!!! haven't played EB in a week :embarassed:
So that HOLD thing actually does something for the unit (statwise)? I thought it just told them to sit still. Hmmm you really do learn something every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSpartan
Sux about the CD.
Put one spartan unit on defensive, on a perfect square, on each of the flanks of your line, and you can forget about your flanks until the end of the battle.
Place some Thorakitae behind them, at a prudent distance (30m, if hidden, better), and once the cavalry attacking your flanks is tired, charge your rested thorakitae units on each flank, and crush the enemy flanking units, leaving enemy flanks exposed.
They work wonders to hold enemy flanking units in place (they are not terminators though, if they are attacked by Ethiophitai Agemata and Hetairoi from all sides, they will suffer). To flank them yourself, use the thureophoroi or thorakitae you may have on reserve.
You do keep a reserve in battles, do you?
Having some of the current underhand fighting guys (hoplitai haploi?) fighting over hand. At least Teleklos Archelaou mentioned a while ago that KH would feel completely different from it's northern neigbours by 0.8.1 in battle compared to what is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlax999
The KH will have both classical phalanx units and the underhand iphikrateans. They will also eventually have a sarissa unit or two.
I was under the impression that even southern Greeks were fighting in a more macedonian style by 272.
Does Achaean greece have it's own fighting style? Or did it, rather?
It's not that cut and dry. Different greek states adopted macedonian style fighting forces at different times, and they didn't always stick with them. Competting iphikratean, celtic and thracian influences were all important as well, as was the glorious tradition of the hoplite of the past.
Here's a passage from Plutarch's Life of Philopoimen, these events are about 210 BC:
In the first place, however, he changed the faulty practice of the Achaeans in drawing up and arming their soldiers. For they used bucklers which were easily carried because they were so light, and yet were too narrow to protect the body; and spears which were much shorter than the Macedonian pike. For this reason they were effective in fighting at a long distance, because they were so lightly armed, but when they came to close quarters with the enemy they were at a disadvantage. 2 Moreover, a division of line and formation into cohorts was not customary with them, and since they employed a solid phalanx without either levelled line of spears or wall of interlocking shields such as the Macedonian phalanx presented, they were easily dislodged and scattered. Philopoemen showed them all this, and persuaded them to adopt long pike and heavy shield instead of spear and buckler, to protect their bodies with helmets and breastplates and greaves, and to practise stationary and steadfast fighting instead of the nimble movements of light-armed troops. 3 After he had persuaded those of military age to arm themselves in this manner, in the first place he inspired them with confidence that they had thus become invincible, and then made most excellent reforms in their luxurious and extravagant ways of living. For it was not possible to remove altogether their empty and idle emulation from a people long addicted to it. They were fond of costly apparel, the coverings of their couches were dyed purple, and they vied with one another in banquets and table array. 4 But he made a beginning by diverting their love of show from what was unnecessary to what was serviceable and honourable, and speedily persuaded and incited them all to check their daily expenditures upon bodily wants, and to find their chief adornment in military and warlike equipments. 5 And so one might have seen the workshops filled with goblets and Therycleian plate which were being broken up, with breastplates being gilded, with shields and bridles being silvered over, while in the places of exercise colts were being broken in and young men were learning the use of heavy armour, and in the hands of women there were helmets and plumes for dyeing, and horsemen's tunics or soldiers' cloaks for embroidering. 6 The sight of all this increased men's courage, called forth their energies, and made them venturesome and ready to incur dangers. 7 For extravagance in other objects of display induces luxury and implants effeminacy in those who use them, since something like a pricking and tickling of the senses breaks down serious purpose; but when it is seen in the trappings of war it strengthens and exalts the spirit, just as Homer represented Achilles, when his new armour was laid down near him, as exulting at the sight and all on fire to get to work with it.
That would be interesting to train these troops in Thermon (or the AI would), and then get some type of reform (fighting macedonians/epirots?). I do notice how Sparta/Corinth/Athens all seem to train different troops. Sparta has classical and spartan hoplites, Corinth can train Theroporoi, Athens outrunners (forgot name). Rhodes can build freakin' anything (all the influence coming from abroad?). That's just as far as I got in my 1.5 before I switched to Bi. What a fantastic game... I just wish every culture you're fighting wasn't maxed out technologically by 245. Kind of annoying fighting thorakitai and heavy libyan spearment with my camillan legions..or is this correct? AI obviously has hugely reduced build times.
If we did add them they would be trained in Corinth, the Achaean League was in the north Peloponnese.
Some of the reforms and recruitment in 0.8 aren't working correctly and so you get that surge of elites.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlax999
Nope. But some of the main cities have MIC lvl 4 or 5 in them and therefore allow the production of some elites.Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlax999