Argh!
I hate the government.
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Argh!
I hate the government.
I think your missing that the upbringing of people is hugely different today then it was back then. Most of the more's we have today did not exist back then. There was no wrong in raping and pillaging in their minds, it's what you did. They didnt feel shame, didn't have nightmares, it was the norm. They were also raised around death, they would have known even seen most of their elder's die in bed, maybe even seen their parents. There was much less of a cultural offence to those who killed. Life of strangers was not valued as much back then. I highly doubt that most were insane or mentally unstable, a few were here and there but most, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by holybandit
Let's remember sniper's have the highest suicide rate of any other soldier. Usually due to extreme shame felt for their actions on the battle field. That shame is not breed into them, it is learned from childhood. We are taught from a young age to value the persons life next to us, that only monster's and evil people kill others.
It is the same principle's and morales that tell us we all are equal, we all should be valued equally that cuase so many problems for soldiers. It is those with sign's out in the street's screaming baby killer's that cause these mental problems, not the deed itself. :shame:
Nurture > Nature
No, rape and pillage have always been looked down upon on one level or another, at the least it exibited a lack of control. Soldiers back then were unstable, which is why they used to kill each other over tavern brawls.
Her Majesties Forces are now officially pathetic...
The Army=The Militia
The Royal Navy=The Royal Coast Guard
The RAF=The Rusting Air Force
I think that was mostly due to excessive drinking and the view that life was cheaper compared to today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
Ill give you that. But surely you dont think there was more then "A few" crazys in medieval armies? Read about medieval armies, they were savage killers. Besides, you have to be extremely brave or extremely nuts to charge a enemy army.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holybandit
I agree that they're were a few crazies among them. But not all or even most. Berserker's are a good example of the truly crazy out there. While sure they did alot of drug's, those do have so wonderful long term side-effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex
Extremely brave maybe, but that's how they fought. It's how they were taught. You would also have all your comrades abreast of you, something I think would go far in calming you and if nothing else give peer pressure to perform and follow through with the charge. Not only that, but for the most part good martial prowess could give you decent chances of surviving.Quote:
Read about medieval armies, they were savage killers. Besides, you have to be extremely brave or extremely nuts to charge a enemy army.
I would say soldier's today have it far more dangerious then back when melee combat ruled. Back then you could see your enemy, you could even smack him. Now they are hundreds of meter's away, even upwards of hundreds of miles. You wont even see what can kill you, let alone touch it. I consider that requiring far more bravery to go through then just charging the enemy.
That has far more to do with alochol then anything else. But also speaking we don't have the morales we have today. Killing someone else was not looked at like it is today. While rape and rampant destruction has never been looked upon as horribly as it is today. Roman levy armies would look forward for the most part to that massive loot and plundering after conquering a city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall
Soldiers today fight for good pay. Back then they fought for loot and adventure.
And I wish we still fought melee in modern times. It seems so ....simple. No satellite photographs, high technological machinery.
That certainly seems true.Quote:
She said: "We treat prisoners better than our soldiers."
CR
Government doesn't need any armies! They need more cameras and surveillance software to keep an eye on their real enemies.
(Would that be us????)
Soldiers fight for more than just pay... if the money were the only thing, there's far more lucrative, and safer occupations to be in.Quote:
Originally Posted by holybandit
Some people were meant to be in the military. And some people like being in the military.Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody Else
Tex: Why do you think they drank so much? The same reason soldiers do today.
Bandit: Soldiers fight for each other, for the men next to them, for their families back home. Most soldiers will fight a LOT harder when women and children are at stake.
Why they join is another matter.
"Justin Smith, 32, told the Prime Minister during a debate on ITV's Westcountry Live programme: "I have lost my house, my security and any self-belief," adding: "Now I'm living in temporary accommodation that is forcing me to go to work rather than concentrate on getting better, and I want to know what the Government is going to do." Mr Blair promised to look into the situation, insisting that there was supposed to be adequate provision for those who are medically discharged."
:bigcry:
Please tell me that's not the best you've got in the UK. People complain about the nanny state yet they champion people like this. Shame indeed.
I'm sure letting him sit around in a wonderful government hospital will make him all better. Has the UK ever been in a war before? What did the government do then? The article doesn't get off to a promising start.
Well what else were they going to do on their nights off? Go to view the local art gallery?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall
That's unfairly harsh. I suppose every man coming back to the US is bright and hale and hearty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
The man has done two tours of duty in Iraq. There's many a soldier, US and UK who has come back from that theatre with terrible mental anguish.
There are few facilities for supporting this specialist need. A military hospital is likely to have more staff with experience to help this condition. If this soldier is not recieving specialist help, it is likely he is in a hostel for the homeless, drawing a benefit called Jobseeker's Allowance, which requires him to work. If he is suffering from post-traumatic stress, he'll only get worse.
I think the government that sent him to Iraq has a duty of care. And in one previous war at least, the government dealt with this kind of thing by executing the men as cowards. Would you exhort a return to that solution?
Neither you or I can have any conception of what this man may have gone through. I suggest you find some compassion for men who have given a great deal for the sake of mistaken policies.
:no:
In essence, as it's clear we can't support looking after the mess we cause in our own populace, we have no place meddling in the running of someone else's country.
~:smoking: