Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
In a book that I read there are two politicians
Politician 1:Force never solves anything!
Politician 2:Tell that to the CSA and the Nazi's.
The 1st Politician was blank, because history was an elective.
Like you'll hear, if you don't know history you will repeat it.
Pizzaro in Peru is a perfect example. He invites the Emperor to meet him to talk. Now, any educated person will point to any number of literature pieces that decisively argues against such a meeting. While any Incan with no written literature thinks 'hmmm, sounds good, lets talk!"
An educated populance is key to a good democracy, and while some couldn't figure Iraq from Ireland, they still have views that should be expressed in their vote.
The problem with the news sources and then such together, is that I'll get 4+ news sources in a day (BBC, NPR, local news, TV) while alot of my friends get 2 or so (Newspaper and TV, with some gossip thrown in)
The news (as much as I hate to say it) has a duty to police the government.
However, sometimes I have conflicting views.
In WW2 you hear about booming industry and conflicts and etc. You get very positive feelings, and the Democracy can carry the war on longer. However, Vietnam+ you get news sources that are strong anti-propoganda (whole 1984 thing) and give you the nitty-gritty which totally RUINS the Democratic ability to wage war.
Modern war sucks for Democracies because the nitty-gritty scares people, and they can't take the loses like you could have.
Winter War with Finland is a prime example. Stalin took horrific losses everywhere, but could forge ahead because he was 'Communist fatherland leader man dude.' He could take massive losses and keep on going.
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Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
What I meant by press feeling the need to criticise everything the government does is not anything like Beirut's story in which the council clearly had something to answer for.
It is all the complete CRAP which spews out of the press which frustrates me. Accusations of the Prime Minister's husband being gay, focusing on a story about the Prime Minister's driver driving faster than the speed limit while taking her to some meeting (she was in the back seat and they try to make her look responsible for it), the STUPID story which ran for nearly a week about one rugby player hitting another rugby player with a women's purse, the news special trying to slander my school and the story I mentioned before where they change what was said and reword things so that it gives a different message.
It is these experiences that have caused me to lose all faith in the media as any credible source for information, yet when I tell people that the news is biased they won't believe me :wall:. "But how?" they exclaim. "We are a democratic country, we don't get told lies!"
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Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
Hepcat, I feel your frustration. Most of the news (from virtually all sources) is skewed, to varying degrees - much of it badly. It's hard to know what, if anything, is trustworthy, and even if you think you know, you probably won't get many people to agree with you.
Still, I'd advise you to listen to what the good people here are saying. The press is one of the most important guards we have against tyranny, even when it functions badly. Allowing governments to control the information is a sure-fire way to destroy freedom.
(Hehe, I recently finished reading Democracy In America. Can you tell?)
Anyway, I don't think many people are really naive enough to think their press doesn't lie to them. The key is for everyone to be well-educated and trained to think critically. Then, by comparing the information from multiple sources, we have a better chance at getting closer to the truth.
Of course, that would be impossible if there were only one source (the state press). Look at China for a fine example. :no:
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
Well, oddly enough, the Backroom is my main source of news now, since I can at least see arguments for various viewpoints in the topics and learn a bit more about it from people's different point of view. Though I don't post often in debates because I am not very good at explaining my views without writing an essay, and usually someone says what I am thinking anyway.
I only read the paper during my break at work and don't watch the news anymore, all the major stories that interest me I can find here.
:2thumbsup:
Thanks people!
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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No, I am not a fascist,
Dont knock it until you try it. We've got cookies.... :yes:
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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Originally Posted by Spetulhu
The sad fact is that people can't be bothered. They'd rather go ooh over the latest scandalous bimbo than read something dry about every-day politics.
Indeed.
While there are plenty of intresting news items in the own country as well as abroad, often more then 1/3 of our television news is spent on crap like "Paris Hilton showed her breast", "Wendy van Wanten found a new lover in our new popular television program", "Superstar I'm Not Interested is gay", "Blablabla won "Dancing on Ice" ", "Mister Who Cares??? won Big Brother", "Btw, Superstar I'm not interested is not gay, he's bi", ....
:wall:
I'm waiting for the day televisions cost 1 € a piece. I would throw a few of them out of the window every day.
Unfortunately, since I'm no millionaire, I'm limited to throwing my socks at it to ventilate my anger. Tearing up a newspaper and kicking the shreds around the house is also great fun.
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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Originally Posted by Beirut
What is unreasonable dissent in your opinion?
One without any foundation in fact.
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
And who gets to pass judgement on the factual basis of dissent, then...?
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
Freedom of the press is important but it does need to be kept in check, that’s the hard part because we all want to know stuff even when we know we shouldn’t we still want to. How many of us would open Pandora’s Box (knowing that there was only a little news inside and not the end of the world)? Probably lots, and that’s the trouble, our curiosity gets the better of us and we throw what’s right out the window and we read/watch whatever the media can get to us. It could be a story about troop movement or Britney’s crotch, we shouldn’t be looking at either but we do (some we looked at twice :eyebrows:) and we will again if the media shows us. The people will not look away and we will even sit thru a commercial break to see the rest of the story and that’s what drives the media. It would be nice if the media would turn down a story or report it in respectful manner (like without the exact coordinates of our troops, their equipment and lodging arrangements.) but that doesn’t get the ratings as easily and the media is lazy and sensational.
I work PR with local and national media all the time and the one common thing I have found with all of them is that they are always (some exceptions apply) looking for the laziest way of doing things that will get them the largest audience. I say laziest rather than easiest because it is easy to get a second opinion or verify a source but they skip that part all the time when they have “enough” for the story, that’s lazy to me and often wrongly represents the story. (Knowing and understanding that, I try as hard as I can to provide the right information to make the story as skewed my way as possible, usually works too! ~D)
I have found that if you want the real story (go to the .org ~D ) you should try and catch it in as many sources as you can because they will all want to get a different take on the story just so they can have a shot at the same audience and not be considered copy cats. If you read the same story on FOX, CNN, ABC, etc. you might get a more rounded idea of the real situation. Local news is tougher because there isn’t usually an abundance of sources :sad:.
The government and even some private sector companies/institutions should kick the media out of some of their operations, the media should hold themselves to a higher standard and endorsing companies should look at the morals of the show they advertise in and not the ratings. But that is probably just a dream as kicking the media out will get you less favorable coverage when you do want it, higher standards equal more work and moral shows don’t get the same ratings as sensational ones.
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
The highest return for the smallest investement sounds like solid capitalist thinking if you ask me...
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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Originally Posted by Watchman
The highest return for the smallest investement sounds like solid capitalist thinking if you ask me...
IMO capitalisms greed often ignores hard work and truthiness for a quick return.
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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Originally Posted by Watchman
And who gets to pass judgement on the factual basis of dissent, then...?
The people
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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Originally Posted by yesdachi
IMO capitalisms greed often ignores hard work and truthiness for a quick return.
Anyone who claims different is probably trying to sell you something. :deal2:
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Originally Posted by Redleg
The people
:dozey:
...I can get nothing without asking, thank you.
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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Originally Posted by Watchman
...I can get nothing without asking, thank you.
Your most welcome.
The people must be the judge and jury. In order to do so they must be informed. In order to accomplish this the people must be willing to be informed and must activitily seek to be informed. This is the dileminia we face as the people. Many of us are just to damn lazy to keep themselves informed.
Hince the vicous circle continues. The people want to be entertained, the Press only entertains us.
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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Originally Posted by Redleg
The people must be the judge and jury. In order to do so they must be informed. In order to accomplish this the people must be willing to be informed and must activitily seek to be informed.
Interesting. But from my experience it is not the people who object to uninformed dissenting opinion, but those in power. The people, often as not, could care less. So if it is the people who must be judge and jury, would you agree that a touch a of uninformed dissenting opinion is healthy as it maintains the pressure of free expression and allows Joe Reader the opportunity to know and separate the intellectual wheat from the chaff?
Re: Freedom of the press, a freedom we could do without
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Originally Posted by Beirut
Interesting. But from my experience it is not the people who object to uninformed dissenting opinion, but those in power. The people, often as not, could care less. So if it is the people who must be judge and jury, would you agree that a touch a of uninformed dissenting opinion is healthy as it maintains the pressure of free expression and allows Joe Reader the opportunity to know and separate the intellectual wheat from the chaff?
With the amount of things that any government does - even the most charitable and beneficial government makes mistakes - un-informed dissent only shows how maleable the people are. If your going to dissent have a reason based upon being informed - I detest mob rule.
