Skins dont look too good

puhlease, those XGM ones are based off vanilla skins! Look at the shoulder pads on the cuirass, or the helmets! The Spartans are wearing Corinthian helmets! C'mon people...since when did bright colors = quality skins?

Or heck, to compare some EB and RTR units (and be mindful that I really like the RTR polybian romans), say in the faction Baktria. Just try to be truthful and say that a single one of the RTR units looks better than an EB equivalent. The Agema? Not even close. Or what about the Indohellenic units?

Or, to make a really, really, really strong point, how about those Celtic units? When did RTR get non-vanilla Celtic units? XGM? How do they compare? Look at some of those Casse units and tell me they don't look amazin.

Since i may not have described my opinion too well heres a pic doing it

EB unit qualisty is highest
Vanilla Unit quality is Low
XGM quality is highest.

https://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2966/thingytz3.jpg



Another place where it is noticable which I forgot to put in the pic is, compare the folds under the XGMs neck to the folds in the EB sleeves, tell me honestly which you think is better.l

Also I dont know if you can notice it but the EB guys are stabbing themselves in the head lol

Well I have never seen some better units then EBs...Do u realy have your glasses on=???...LOL

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Originally Posted by Birka Viking

Well I have never seen some better units then EBs...Do u realy have your glasses on=???...LOL

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To be honest I think the pic speaks for itself, if you think that eb unit is graphically superior to the other 2 there's no hope for you.

And thats about typical, as far as ive seen, of eb units.

The colors in XGM are horrible...Really ugly. And look at the shoulder. It's deformed. You could pick apart any of the models. But at least the EB one resembles something that would be on a battlefield.

Dunno how you got those guys to have the spears running through their heads. Must be your asinine comments. :rolleyes:

Here's the unit on my version...

https://img70.imageshack.us/img70/6083/gggyd8.jpg

I am not stating that its not historically accurate, I dont care about that (in this context).

The debate as far as im concerned is simply about the quality of the rendering of the texture. How well the 3rd dimension is represented, the detail (even if ahistorical) quality in the texture, etc..

Plus none of the models are totally anatomically correct, the crazy shoulders are due to trying to keep the polys down.

I bet if I look at a topless EB model its shoulders will be messed up (I hope lo0l)

Also its a different unit youve got there, the spears on the one ive got are only just higher than thier heads.

Can we please keep from putting down *any* mods here? If someone likes EB skins, here is a good place to complement them. If you like XGM skins, please go to their forum and tell them that. If you like RTR skins, it would be awful if you didn't go and praise their guys for creating them on their forum or their website. But badmouthing other mods on EB fora does not help us any guys. Further, by saying another mod's skins are better than EB's, and if we do not agree with the statement, then that puts us in the unfortunate position of needing to say that ours are better than someone else's. Well, obviously we think ours are the best - of course. I don't know of a single EB member that doesn't think our units are better than anyone else's. That is our opinion, and other mods probably feel the same way about their own work. But by slamming our units and saying that someone else's (and specifying the other mod(s)) are better, makes it hard for us to say anything about it, other than "we think ours are accurate and aesthetically pleasing as well." So how about not putting us in a hard place here guys. Lay off the comparisons if possible. Fans are probably allowed a little more latitude (than team members) in expressing their opinions, but let's not go too far and keep in mind that all mods are done by volunteers for everyone's enjoyment. Honestly, it's usually people who couldn't make a unit to save their life who badmouth modders' work and modders in general know (or should know) better than to go down that path.

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Originally Posted by Imperator

2 Questions to ask in determining which skin is better:
1) which one looks cooler?
--personally, I think they're both cool- although the EB one is certainly
pretty...unique. The RTR one doesn't look very indigenous Iberian to
me, but has a pretty Roman look to it. But that is 100% moot
because it's personal preference. whichever looks nicer to you wins
in this catagory
2) which one is accurate?
--can either team cite where they learned about what this unit should
look like? If there is a description of them in some source I don't
know about, then let's see it and then we'll be able to say whose is
more realistic and whose is more fantasy.

if you only care about #1, then what's the point of starting a topic? You can't convince someone that something looks cool- it either does or doesn't. Besides, folk round here (and at RTR too) don't just care about "coolness" (which is arbitrary and completely based on perspective) but about Accuracy (quantifiable and gradable). It depends how important each one is.

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I should point out that they aren't the same unit. The rtr one is a celtiberian scutarii not a lusitanian while if I understand correctly the EB one is. So the RTR one is celtic in style with a Montefortino helmet and scutum with pilums.

I should also point out that historical accuracy is completely arbitrary. No one can really say one or the other is more accurate. In many cases RTR has some fairly fantasized units and the same is true for EB. So in the end it comes down to personal preference.

I can have a semi decent whack at making a unit lol.

No the main thing was people saying conclusively EBs were better, without putting any reasons other than historical accuracy.

I was hoping if people were able to put what they saw as faults in eb textures, then your texture artists may be able to iron them out of thier later work.

Like for instance when I draw, (which I can barely do lol) I am happy to be told anything that may improve my drawings in the future.

There, Thureophoroi of the Koinon.

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8962/fffiu5.jpg

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Originally Posted by caius britannicus

I should point out that they aren't the same unit. The rtr one is a celtiberian scutarii not a lusitanian while if I understand correctly the EB one is.

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It's a 'normal' iberian unit, not a lusitanian version. You can recruit them in everywhere in spain but lusitiania.

And HumphreysCraig00, if you want to compare models, compare ones that look somewhat alike, like eb hypaspistai to xgm sacred band. They are of at least equal quality.

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No the main thing was people saying conclusively EBs were better, without putting any reasons other than historical accuracy.

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To aim for historical accuracy....That's as valid as any other reason to like a skin. ( Or to make one.) And the attention to that sort of thing is really what makes EB stand out and "WOWS" people.

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Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards

And HumphreysCraig00, if you want to compare models, compare ones that look somewhat alike, like eb hypaspistai to xgm sacred band. They are of at least equal quality.

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Amen FY. :laugh4: At least it wasn't numidian skirmishers compared to sacred band! (the numidian skirmisher are probably the one unit we agree most on needs reworking).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caius britannicus

I should point out that they aren't the same unit. The rtr one is a celtiberian scutarii not a lusitanian while if I understand correctly the EB one is. So the RTR one is celtic in style with a Montefortino helmet and scutum with pilums.

I should also point out that historical accuracy is completely arbitrary. No one can really say one or the other is more accurate. In many cases RTR has some fairly fantasized units and the same is true for EB. So in the end it comes down to personal preference.

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Hmmm...no. Ours are of the Edetani or Costetani for example, and they're fully attested by pictoral evidence as well as sculptures. The only part that can be argued is the lower mail part. They can however be recruited by the Lusitani of course, and Carthage equips it with the usual heavy infantry kit.

The style of helmet presented there would be completely out of fashion by our mod's starting date in Celtiberia. It's an early 4th century example. The more recognizable shapes of the later montefortino would definitely be more adequate or a slightly taller one, but never that high. All helmet finds that I know of are of bronze too btw. Metal greaves and pteryges (?) are unnatested.

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Originally Posted by HumphreysCraig00

No the main thing was people saying conclusively EBs were better, without putting any reasons other than historical accuracy.

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Nope, I'm flat out saying EB's technically better. As well as historical if you will.

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Originally Posted by Fondor_Yards

And HumphreysCraig00, if you want to compare models, compare ones that look somewhat alike, like eb hypaspistai to xgm sacred band. They are of at least equal quality.

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Don't even get me started on that pathetic "comparison":

"Let's compare the San Diego Zoo to the El Paso Zoo! Here's a mangy hyena from the San Diego Zoo....look how ugly it is! And here's a Beautiful Bengal Tiger from the El Paso Zoo! Big, strong, great color and beautiful muscle tone. As this clearly shows, all the animals in the El Paso Zoo are FAR BETTER than those in the San Diego Zoo!"

Blechh. Can someone loan me one of those vomiting smilies? After trying to stomach the arguments of that fool, I really need to use it now.

FWIW, the eye-offending EB thureophoroi model variants by noob Spartan Warrior (aka, Summer 2006 TWC Best Skinner/Modeller):
Greek ----------------------- Mecedonian --------------------- Epirote ----------------------- Ptolemaic ----------------------- Pontic
https://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4045/17ym1.jpg
Seleucid ----------------------- Baktrian ----------------------- Merc ----------------------- Rebel ----------------------- Carthage Libyans
https://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4605/21wh2.jpg

and the Thorakitai,
Greek ----------------------- Epirote ---------------------- Seleucid ----------------------- Baktrian ---------------------- Carthage Late Libyans
https://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4596/34lk.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kull

Don't even get me started on that pathetic "comparison":

"Let's compare the San Diego Zoo to the El Paso Zoo! Here's a mangy hyena from the San Diego Zoo....look how ugly it is! And here's a Beautiful Bengal Tiger from the El Paso Zoo! Big, strong, great color and beautiful muscle tone. As this clearly shows, all the animals in the El Paso Zoo are FAR BETTER than those in the San Diego Zoo!"

Blechh. Can someone loan me one of those vomiting smilies? After trying to stomach the arguments of that fool, I really need to use it now.

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Even if the Thureophoroi are more mundane, I still think they look better than the elite units presented by him.

The Thureophoroi and Vanilla Hoplites are also selected which gives them the 'glowing' effect, which of course reduces texture quality. ie, reducing textures shadows and removing minor details. Can't see most the pattern on his chest in the screen shot.

Ok, I think it's a good moment to calm down, before this escalates into a pissing contest. There are those who like bright colours, shiny stuff on the expense of historical accuracy. Fine by my book. There are those who think bright colours are too much, that's fine by my book too. To me, EB features the finest units, because it is more near the earth than any other mod, and the bright colours in my opinion are perhaps "fresh" at first, but lose in credibility. It's like a piece of cake. The XGM mod looks like a fancy cake with expensive icing, but it tastes like potato-salad to me. It does not leave a lasting impression to me, and it feels bizarre.

EB reserves the shiny stuff for the truly elite units, and the beauty here is that the team has poured so much effort into making all units look as diverse as possible, in spite of technical limitations. The cavalry, well to be fair many units miss the fine touch of newer horse models and bridles, but it makes up with diversity and credibility and that is a combination that strikes a chord within me. All those thureophoroi, thorakitai and similar units, it emphasizes the beauty of EB. In XGM, taking a look beneath the bright colours, reveals recycled Vanilla units, just patched with booming colours. This is not to downplay the XGM mod which is very entertaining in its own right, but comparing EB to XGM is like comparing an apple to an orange. Two very different flavours, the decision merely based on appeal. I think Kull said it the best. You can't compare a magnificent stallion to a roan donkey.

You guys seem really hurt by constructive criticism, it would be funny i was in the mood...

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-And HumphreysCraig00, if you want to compare models, compare ones that look somewhat alike, like eb hypaspistai to xgm sacred band. They are of at least equal quality.

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I did,. I compared the eb model to its closest vanilla analogue.
And the vanilla one is superior.

I only chose the XGM Sacred band as it is the worst XGM model, so I wanted to give the EB model the best chance against it.

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-To aim for historical accuracy....That's as valid as any other reason to like a skin. ( Or to make one.) And the attention to that sort of thing is really what makes EB stand out and "WOWS" people.

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Ebs main aim may be realism, but the point of the thread was THE EB SKINS DONT LOOK GOOD, not that they are unrealistic, it is possible to have a good looking and realistic model, so saying 'We went for realism not for looks' is a crap defence.

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-Amen FY. FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=" At least it wasn't numidian skirmishers compared to sacred band! (the numidian skirmisher are probably the one unit we agree most on needs reworking).

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I chose that one as it is fairly representative of the EB models ive seen thus far, is there worse ones?

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-I'm flat out saying EB's technically better.

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Please define technically better.

As I have been judging by, the crispness of the textures, which eb loses on, everything in eb is just a little blurry, blurry doesnt equal worn/realistic, it equals blurry.

I have been judging on the illusion of a 3rd dimension created by the texture, which on most of the EB models ive seen is fairly poor.

You're like a bad case of herpes.

Where's the constructive criticism? You're stating your opinion, I've stated mine. You don't like it - we get it. Leave.

Wow. Some comments in this thread border on nationalism. :laugh4:

I can see what Humphreys is saying - unless I've missinterpreted it. It's a question of shading on some units, more so than the skin in it's entirety.

It sounds like XGM is the mod for you mate. Enjoy it. You have stated you like the worst of their units more than ours. Please go praise them on their mod fora and leave us alone. We are hardly hurt - just posting real screenshots of ours (those by Sarcasm and myself) certainly and really does makes me thrilled. In the end, we will not be redoing all our units to fit WoW color schemes or your personal tastes. We are happy with most of them, but yes, a few we will be redoing (like the Numidian Skirmishers). Certainly not the one you have picked out though: the detail, variance, and realism all found above in those three images of thureophoroi and thorakitai shows exactly the strengths of EB, and we are more than pleased with them.

The barbarian units deserve recognition. The shields, troops, and armor add to the overall look. This mod has great skins, take a look at the pezheteroi.

EB's units has styles that would make womens magazines embarrased:yes:

Nope, Humphrys is still not making any sense; perhaps if he posted truly representative units, didn't manipulate his screenshots, didn't attack strawman-arguments, and in general actually gave some constructive criticism (ie. how to make the skins better, what precisely is wrong) in a more polite fashion he would be worth listening to or replying to. As it is, he's not, and this topic is only worth it for the pretty pictures posted by Sarcasm. Looks great to me.

Hey, at least we got a bunch of awesome pics from this thread. I for one loved that one of all the thureophoroi and the thorakitai. Can't get enough EB pics I always say. And the Lusotanann? Mmmm, mmmmm.

-edit-
Whoa, that's funny. Geoffrey and I posted the same sentiments about pics in this thread at same time. In any case, I think Humphrey's biggest point EB can take from all this is that maybe some units could use a little more shading. Now hell, I don't know anything about anything about texturing or drawing or whatnot. But if that's what makes units look better, then go for it.

Ok, Humphrey we got it already. You have iterated your criticism a few times, and though not too widely appreciated, we get your point. I don't share your opinion. You are still comparing apples with oranges. Compare the Hye Sparapet/Grivpanvar to the Vanilla cataphracts, or the XGM Greek armoured cavalry. You can't possibly say that either of EB cataphract elites look worse than any of the others on the technical basis.

As long as we're talking about pics, put up some Polybian Romani

Please?

I would put some pics but I need practice...:embarassed:

EDIT: oops! still need to install EB...