How to beat the Mongols on open ground -no seiges, assassins, bridges or weird armies

Very nice post. I never used infantry in a field battle against the Mongols. I defeated the Mongols and the Timiruds in a few campaign on Vh/Vh and my strategy was:

1. I had all the towns and castles garrisoned 100% by the best crossbow units I can produce. If a town is sieged then I sally out and fight a grand range battle, where the Mongols have 2 or 3 stacks against 1 mine. The loses ratio was 1 mine per 2 Mongols.

2. I tested successfully two types of field army, both 100 cavalry.
2.1. The first type was 100% mounted crossbows without a general, upgraded to the max. In a loose two rows formation the front 5 or 6 units fix the Mongols, when with the rest try to surround them. The real damage is delivered by the units which are behind and on the right side of the Mongols, where the shields doesn’t count.
2.2. The second was 100% knights, preferably the Guild ones (hospitalier and templar). The tactic was to flank the Mongol formation then all out charge targeting the furthest unit on the other flank. When my mass knights army reaches the middle of the Mongol formation and kills the general, then the mass rout and slaughter starts.

The loses ratio in all the above scenarios was about 1 mine per 2 Mongols.

quick question, are elephants affected by stakes?

If you have a 2 to 1 loss ratio the 3 mongol stacks should win:inquisitive:

That would be true if you had to fight the Mongols to the death but all you have to do is make them rout. 3000 Mongols vs 1000 Good Guys, if the Mongols rout after losing 1000 troops, Good Guys only lost 500.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tuidjy

In the real world, or against a human, his infantry would be flanked,
softened by mounted archers, and then obliterated in a massive charge,
and his few cavalry units would not be enough to stop the massacre.

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I've fought many mongol battles using army composition very similar to GuyofJerusalem. Against me, the AI attempts all the things you say. They try to outflank, soften via mounted archers, then finish things off with a charge.

So I prefer to deploy my spearmen in shiltroms out in front of the shooting line. The mongols can either shoot up my spearmen (they are welcome to it, I bring extra just for that purpose), or they can waste their heavy cav in suicide charges.

Meanwhile, the Mongol horse archers suffer badly against mass ranks of foot archers/crossbows. The result: I take a few casualties while the Mongols lose most of their horse archers. A trade I will gladly take.

The AI seems programmed to skirmish and lure the opponent to be counter-charged by heavy calvary. A good tactic against unprepared opponents, but against disciplined enemies with a good unit mix, it sacrifices bait units for no gain.

Another way to beat Mongols:
The Mongols are susceptible to an well-supported infantry spear push. Push a heavy wall of spears right through the mongol foot shooters, and engage the heavy cavalry before it is ready to charge. This disrupts the mongol infantry shooters. Support the spear push using a second row comprised of archers, and/or cavalry to counter the mongol horse archers. The spearmen must be supported or they will lose their morale and run. If your spear line successfully engages the mongol heavy cav reserve, you should win the battle. This approach probably wouldn't work against human opponents :laugh4: