What do you attribute Royal's troubles to? Is it her weakness as a candidate or a failing of the socialist perception in 21 Century France?Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
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What do you attribute Royal's troubles to? Is it her weakness as a candidate or a failing of the socialist perception in 21 Century France?Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Rather ungentlemenly, isn't it? Not playing on a fair field are they? Lousy peasants! :toff: ~;pQuote:
Yes, in the context of the preservation / reform of the social model, the welfare state, the French model.
The frustrating thing is, France is right, the rest of the world is wrong. Our way of life is the best, but is it sustainable in the face of the onslaught of ultra-libéralism and globalisation?
Seriously, though; what if people want to work more? What if a man without wife or kids finds his work fascinating, and his home dull? And why would you take those (relatively) high paying jobs from the Indians?Quote:
35 hours a week is the way it should be, so people can read books and have proper meals at a proper table while talking with their friends and family instead of microwave dinners in front of the tv and not speaking to your children.
But what to do in an increasingly globalised world where 300 million Americans satisfy themselves with 14 days of vacation a year, 1.3 million Chinese work 35 hours a day and a billion Indians do your work for 10 percent of your wage?
But hey, it's your country. As an aside, I too am interested in Pindar's questions.
CR
Thanks for that, I can sign off with a smile now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
- Pourquoi est-il imbouffable?
- Parce qu'il est Juif?
PAF!
- Parce qu'il est noir!
“Is it her weakness as a candidate or a failing of the socialist perception in 21 Century France?”
I have difficulties to vote for her because a socialism is fading… Capitalism failed and fails again, but always succeeded to recover. Socialism, because confused with USSR, has problem of image. However, look to the South American (and Central) what do they vote? Socialism…
In short, she is not socialist enough…
What could be a boost for her, and I am in it, is this 8.56 million € (11.49 million US$) for the former Airbus manager as compensation. For failure. That is capitalism, supported by the righties so-called capitalist. The ransom of the failure. And 10 000 families lost their income.
Airbus is no example of pure capitalism.
CR
Do you have a pic of Le Pen's daughter? :eyebrows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
French politics sounds excitng
They and the Dutch have some of the prettiest politicians. :yes:
Both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pindar
Socialism is under strain. It has never really reformed itself like so many other European social-democratic parties. It has only tried halfheartedly so. With the result that it has estranged the old socialist guard (*waves at Brenus*). And neither does it offer a viable modern version that's palatable for more centrist voters. *myself*
Royal is not a very strong candidate, the novelty has worn off rather quickly. She peaked too early, you can only be the next big thing for so long. Just because I think she's a hot [Mother I'd Like to get Familiar with] doesn't mean I'll vote her. [/needless sexist commentary preventing women from being taken seriously as politicians]
I should write something more constructive, but summer's here and I've been staring at hot chicks in skimpy dresses all day long and I can't think of anything else right now so I'll move the subject on to that:
Are you sure you want to see what this guy's daughter looks like...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
http://www.electionsfrance2007.fr/im...e/LE_PEN_4.jpg
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
That depends a good deal on your definition of exciting. It is different from American politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Srike
Take Dominique de Villepin. You may remember him from his time as minister of external affairs. He was the one that pwnd America at the UN during the row over the Iraq invasion.
He was born in Morocco (to French parents) and grew up in Venezuela. He's fluent in French, English and Spanish. His career alternated between being a diplomat and being a poetry critic and writer. He is together with Bayrou certainly the best author of the bunch.
One of the peculiarities of the French political system is that politicians write books - you know, that dead wood stuff with regular patterns of ink blobs on it.
A regualr subject is the historical biography about great Frenchmen. Their choice of subject, and the way they describe them, is really of covert way of speaking about themselves. Bayrou wrote about Henry IV, the 'good king', a popular favourite whose policy is best summed up by his words of 'a chicken in the pot for every Frenchman!'
Sarkozy wrote about Georges Mandel. Like himself a refugee with Jewish origins, he became a French resistance fighter in WWII.
Royal wrote about Voltaire.
De Villepin wrote about the final days of Napoleon. Not unprophetic, considering De Villepin's promising career ended in ruin during the CPE student revolt of last year, ending his hopes of running for president at the current election. Pity, because he possesses that most important of qualities for becoming president: height. We like 'm tall. Either that, or very short, foreign and of unrelenting ambition due to lack of height.
Shame, just like the socialists, the right wing picked the showy and not the intellectual candidate. (Gah! Americanisation!)
Anyway, the boring stuff above was intended to be a brief prelude to get to the point: my wet dream, Marie de Villepin, his daughter. She studies economics, is very intelligent and is currently living anonymously in New York under a pseudonum, where she's a model for Chanel and Givenchy:
http://www.saelblog.com/dotclear/ima...ar-blog/a3.jpg
She looks like a guy in drag. I prefer the older, drugged up one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
“the old socialist guard”. Qui meurt mais ne se rend pas. Not so old, but socialist internationalist yes. I heard her interview on TV5 - Tele Matin yesterday (or before yesterday), it was not so bad, but still lack of conviction.
Sarkozy looked more and more like the faux-cul he is… I don’t understand how the French forgot how he betrayed every body he could to gain power… Yerk.
Mais de droite. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
'faux-cul', for the French-impaired, = phoney; hypocrite.
Sorry Brenus, I didn't see you had responded. Is your view then if she were more of a socialist then she would have more support? Does this mean you see a strong Socialist segment in France waiting for a champion?Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
This actually made me laugh out loud. My assistant is giving me odd looks. I like the "Avec Le Pen" hottie though.Quote:
Are you sure you want to see what this guy's daughter looks like...?
Are political resurrections possible in the land of the Gauls?Quote:
De Villepin wrote about the final days of Napoleon. Not unprophetic, considering De Villepin's promising career ended in ruin during the CPE student revolt of last year, ending his hopes of running for president at the current election. Pity, because he possesses that most important of qualities for becoming president: height. We like 'm tall. Either that, or very short, foreign and of unrelenting ambition due to lack of height.
Shame, just like the socialists, the right wing picked the showy and not the intellectual candidate. (Gah! Americanisation!)
Hilarious :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Sorry Brenus, I didn't see you had responded. Is your view then if she were more of a socialist then she would have more support?” I don’t know if she would get more support, but she would have got the Socialist one.
The problem with the actual socialist movement is it lost his roots, the Dream. The dream is that every human have the right of a decent life, a right for dignity and the right not to be just a factories/companies fodder… I know, in a world more and more like a jungle it seems odd to think like that but I am too old to change.
So, following the righties “back to the future XIX Century”, the socialists (Blair ahead) just lost the reasons why they were socialist and enjoy a new life of money and power.
The so-call adaptation is just a pure submission to others’ diktats were it is the market (whatever it is) is the new king, money is every things and death to the wreaks and the ills. As my Grand Mother would have say: “better to be rich and in good health than poor and sick”.
“Does this mean you see a strong Socialist segment in France waiting for a champion”. I don’t think so. France is a conservative country, due to her past. Revolutions happened but were only due by minorities, and too much people think they have to much to loose.
To be elected, you have to play on the fears of people, emigration, insecurity, but avoid carefully to speak of the real problems: Unemployment, inflation, taxes on the poorest, homeless, poverty, education, what the French are really concerned when the media don’t built fear on screen like the last election.
...Resisted the urge to take this wildly off topic.
I apologize in advance for any unintended offense. But you cannot begin to understand how odd it seems to hear a French socialist decrying the fact that the leading Leftist candidate isn't Left enough.... Imagine if I said I wish Bush could find a way to help out corporate America more... :dizzy2:
Anyway, I think Madame Royal's troubles started with the now infamous Hillary-snub. I think it was in really poor taste of Hillary, and just goes to show how she treats her supporters. What can we who disagree with her expect in the way of treatment?
From what I know of the situation, which granted is incredibly limited, I'd say France needs somebody that's willing to stand up to the labor unions and end the legally proscribed 35 hour work week. All the French people I have known have been innovative and industrious, but your current system retards your growth. And when I ask your expat brethren about it, they say much the same, that you're simply not allowed to outwork your competitors in the office, and it's a shame.
I also think France also needs to implment more carrot and more stick in terms of dealing with immigrant enclaves. The benign neglect thus far has been anything but.
As to this particular election itself, it sounds like you have 3 stuffed shirts. Some blow hot air you agree with, some you don't, but at the end, you don't trust any of them further than you throw them, and it's clear none of them believe the words coming out of their mouths. Welcome to our world. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, American elections are all about finding the leper with the most fingers left.
Well, this opinion is shared by a lot of the population. Many people from the Socialist Party itself, aswell as all people who will vote for the Communist Party or one of our 3 Troskist (sp?) party, our great José Bové national or even Les Verts (add to them all the various anarchists, communists and troskists who think voting is a waste of time).Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
And well, one could not blame them. Socialism was supposed to find an alternative way to generalised and inhuman (that's not really the word I'd be using in French, but I can't find an english equivalent) free-market.
And, Royal and her friends are in now way doing such a thing. They just accepted the system and are trying to live by it. They're not trying to promote a new way of life, but just doing their best to limit the worst consequences of economical liberalism.
They're not to be blamed, because I doubt there's any real alternative to liberalism for a developed country atm (as Mitterrand could say if the damn bastard was still alive), but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people in France still think this can (and should) be done.
Brenus summed it up fairly well. I don't give a crap about a President who promise to reduce unemployement rate by 2% and an increased growth. I want someone who promises us to get ride of unemployement altogether, who promises us that incompetent managers won't go on retirement with millions of euros while other people are just trying to buy food for their families, and so on.
So have we any predictions the day before voting?
I'm tending towards seeing all those undecided voters pile in for Bayrou. There seems to be a lot of anger at Sarkozy, but enough support to get him into the second round anyway. I suspect many people may decide in the ballot booth that Bayrou might just be the guy to beat him.
So there's my hostage to fortune: Sarko and Bayrou to the second round.
:stupido2:
Well Brenus and Meneldil gave the answer. France is a conservative country, even the socialists. The left still decries the waning of Trotskyism. Just watch all those half a dozen leftists clowns tomorrow each get their million votes or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by me
It is a pity, because at heart I consider myself a progressive, but I can not support a socialism that is not prepared to take the step towards a modern social-democracy. I may even vote Sarko in the second round, even though he's pathologically ill and needs help, not a presidency.
To a certain extent, I like Royal, her style. She is willing to engage in a 'dialogue'. But at the moment, I'd rather have a major shake-up than her soft touch, her one hundred little steps forward. Let Sarko be a hammer of progress first, then we'll see.
Don is more correct in his assesment than he thinks:
The thing is, I think Sarko means a major step forward, for the right. At least he has a more realistic assesment of the world, of France. In contrats, there is no new left. Royal, for all her talk about her new, 'feminine' style is still teh old. She shouldn't have surrounded herself with all those elephants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
The campaign has been rubbish for the past month. All this talk about French identity and immigration from the canditates, blech, get to the real issues. And then there are all those voters, what a bunch of :daisy:, complaining about politicians all the time, mistrusting them, demanding this, wanting that, hoping for promises, promises promises. Gah! Yes I would mistrust politicians too if I would share the idea that the state should take care of my every need. Bunch of children they are. Sarko isn't going to clean up the suburbs and Sego isn't going to get you a job. Get it yourself. Get over it.
It's rubbish, and to think we're at such an interesting crossroads of history.
The polls are closed. It is forbidden to publish polls or forecasts until after the elections of tomorrow. Which means I'll be watching BBC and CNN all day long tomorrow - long live globalisation. :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
As to my prediction: Sarko is certain to make it. I think Sego will come in second.
I will vote Bayrou, but I fear he's not going to make it.
One never knows about Le Pen, he could actually make it again. God forbid, we'll be the laughing stock of the world if he makes it twice in a row.
I still have the feeling that Bayrou could win the second round against Sarko, now if only we can get him into the seond round...:knight:
The socialists will be the laughing stock if their candidate doesn't make it to the second round....again.
*crosses fingers*Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
America could also use a more economically free ally...
Sarko - Ségo
Enjoy
That certainly seems to be the case with the early exit polls. Pretty substantial turnout reported too. :book2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
Well, it will be interesting to see what will happen from now on. I'm fairly sure all far left voters will support Royal, since there afraid by Sarkozy.
On the other side of the spectrum, there are about 12% of people who will probably support Sarkozy.
The outcome will likely be decided by Bayrou's voters and I can't tell if most of them are former right or left voters.
Around 83%, counting only registered voters - the real turnout in % of the total electorate is much less impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
from a brit perspective I will be cheering Sarko on to the finish line, for two very good reasons:
1) our Armed Forces hating lefty politicians are unwilling to spend enough on the Defence Budget, and thus we are in the silly position whereby it is considered essential to partner with the french on the proposed new aircraft carriers. Royale has said she would cancel the french carrier, which our stupid politico's might take as an excuse to dump all UK carrier plans. We could easily afford this on our own, but in the absence of any British spine i will happily see the UK collaborate with the french on this.
2) Sarko is the only politician who has campaigned for a mandate to rejuvenate the french economy, to once more add real dynamism to france. i want france to be powerful and independent, as a proud france is less likely to tolerate this rampant euro-twaddle. most of the pro-euro arguments revolve around how independent nations cannot survive on their own anymore, and populaces are most receptive to this flawed argument when their own economy is sclerotic. While this may have some truth for small euro nations, it certainly isn't true of the likes of the UK and france, and federalism is not the right answer anyway.