What about battle AI? From what i know the AI is not totally moddable and use the AI of roman era is not too good for 19th century..... There are none 17th/18th/19th century single player mod because of the AI problem..
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What about battle AI? From what i know the AI is not totally moddable and use the AI of roman era is not too good for 19th century..... There are none 17th/18th/19th century single player mod because of the AI problem..
What do you mean exactly? Why would the AI not be suitable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar Vastator
Are we talking about Battle AI?
And there are other mods that refer to the same time era. I saw one called pike and musket, i think. We will have to change buildings and such thats for sure but i believe we can change, them, cant we?
I think this maybe refering to gunpowder.
I am assuming any Gunpowder units would simply be made as missile type, however, many battles in that revolution still employ lots of swords fights, charging cavalry with swords as well.
bayonet fights could be switching to a secondary type of weapon or even a sword or knife.
I am not clear as to which AI we are talking about still.
Maybe refering to mechanics of Shooting ranks and the such?
Hy,
I have came back now, and thank you for your offer.
I have read all the possible plans, and after much thinking i have come with an idea to make this mod possible.I basically agree with all what you have said , howewer i think you should make the map to cover all the Balkans.
I suggest to cut out Moldavia from the map, because if you make Moldavia on the map from a geographicall point of view you will be forced to include also Transilvania, and the Habsburgic faction wich had little role in all these events...
The northern edge of the map should be represented by the Carpathian Mountains. In western Wallachia , province of Oltenia (i will help making 10 provinces for Wallachia - not more, 10 is enough), will start with an army Tudor Vladimirescu, while in eastern Wallachia will be located Alexander Ypsilanty`s Eterian army, an ally of Tudor Vladimirescu. The army of Alexander Ypsilany should be scripted to attack the turkish garrisons on the Danube and to cross the river into Bulgaria, to help the locals launch rebellions. Its ultimate goal will be Greece, as it was planned in real history. Or more simply, the player who plays with Greece should have this army stationed overthere, to launch attacks against the Ottomans in the Balkans and to make the other nations rebel.
About the inclusion of Western Nations, i suggest using a similar way, making them single armyes allied to the Greeks. Egypt should also start with an army, on ships, located somewhere near Crete, with the intention of joining the Turkish Allies. I think Greece should have about 50-60 provinces, many islands, because it was difficult terrain.
I propose a map covering the following area to be included :
https://img115.imageshack.us/img115/...balkanstb0.png
NUMBER 1 IS ARMY OF TUDOR VLADIMIRESCU
NUMBER 2 IS ARMY OF ALEXANDER YPSILANTY
NUMBER 3 IS EGYPTYAN FLEET
So could be the western armies added ~ :)
The only thing that lingers in my mind in relation to this mod is actually M2TW...
Its already made to support all that which this mod endeavors, and I feel it maybe double the effort.
Its like why make a medieval TW mod for the RTW when there is M2TW?
It is still your decision Meliritos, this is your idea I am willing to offer reseach support, and depending how things evolve (and time permits) even more, (I can Model and Skinn aswell, script to a certain extent but not really code, althought I can't commit yet for these parts).
Hmmm MTW2 was my original idea in the first place but i know they cant model new units yet for that game, am i not right? And imagine what would happen if they never release the tools to put new models in game. Our efforts would be for nothing. Thats why i thought o RTW 1.6 because it is more modable, isnt that right? About the army of Ipsilantis, we can assign the Sacred Band of his to the wallachian and the greek faction. But from what you say rex i conclude that you want to make ipsilantis army like the Huns faction in B.I, i mean kinda nomadic? I thought that any faction will have three cities rebeling for it and so the campaign starts. The only thing is that wallachia will have ipsilanits army from the start and greece after a while.
Now about the map. Its not bad, but could you put the rough names in the wider territories? I know where greece, turkey and bulgaria is but that little green thinky above greeces macedonia is fyrom? they hadnt fyrom back then. Anyway post the names of the territories to make it clearer.
For the game: Every faction will have two or three cities rebelling simultaneously. (A. Three cities or B. Two cities and an army on the map). The object of the game will be to conquer with your faction what your factions borders are TODAY (I mean the greek faction liberates what greece is today, the bulgarians bulgaria today and so on) or you can continue the game and conquer the rest of the map.
Very Interesting ideas here Rex.
Yes I also like having Ypsilanti start historically and moving downwards, as it moves to the south event triggers revolutions in various settlements for appropriate factions to simulate the revolution.
This map looks modern btw :)
Having allied forces as arriving in an event fashion is also interesting, however I think it may remove a bit of strategical decision making on the part of player in contrast to having them in merc queues.
What do you think?
It will depend on how you want to make this merilitos, do you want a RL scripted approach or a CA Classical approach to it?
A RL scripted approach would be to force the player to follow historical movement evolution and events.
CA classical (how I call it) approach sets the opening as historically accurate as possible within Historical parameters also, but lets the player evolve history from that point onwards (I am sure we all understand that approach, we been playing these game).
the later better. I prefer to have the three main powers of that time (G. Britain, France, Russia) as merc. This is definite. As for the army of ipsilantis my only objection is to what faction will he belong? I prefer to have the sacred band units (ipsilantis army was called the sacred band) for the greek and maybe the wallachian faction if you like, but not having him as a nomad faction running around the Balkans. And the Wallachians wont necessary be allies to the greek in the game. Maybe we can remake the march of his army as a separate campaign.
Now about M2TW, your right, I only recently got in to it and wasnt aware of all its modding possibilities I am realising now that its not as extended yet.
On the other hand, seems like it is a better version of the RTW engine which opens up possibilities lots of the processes of RTW modding are applicable. I just dont know to which extent as of yet.
And I am also getting the feeling of some issues going behind the stage of "political nature"...might be wrong...just a feeling.
we will politics out of our mod. The map looks fine BUT: rex's map will be the territories each faction must conquer in order to win. But at first everything will be Ottoman empire. The player will start with two cities and stronger army or three cities and a weaker army in his faction territory (it wil be nice if we can choose which cities we are going to have at the beggining). But for example a player that plays the Greek faction wont be able to start from Bucarest or Sofia.
yes I agree on politics, I was not refering to this mod btw, was refering the general atmosphere of M2TW ;)
Now on to the Mod, it is possible to start the player with just one army, and have a trigger that will cause several cities of our choosing initially part of the Otoman empire switch faction. I am not the best for this kind of scripting but as I understand it, it is possible.
In any case, I made some more research, this time of Armenia.
If you wish I can bring the findings here however, Armenia since the 13th Century has not really been independent and was ruled by invaders.
It really became Independent in the 20th century, inspite of its very long standing History going back as far as 6000 BC.
So I think we can safelly say that Armenia is not part of the time period of this Mod.
armenia is definetely out
The factions for our first attemprt can be
Ottoman empire
Greece
Bulgraria
Wallachia
Serbia
and maybe the Ali Pasha of Ioannina
G.B
France
Russia
and Austria maybe as merc
Hmm, the map is modern and is good to nothing, but i used it as a reference for the geographicall area which i suggest this mod should encorporate. ~:)
Hmm... can we make him be Greek army then ? Something like in the Crusades, a rather distant and isolated greek army in the Wallachian wayting to come and join the rest of the forces, but in order to do this they will need to cross the Balkans... hmm, just some suggestions ~:) It would be quite interesting to attempt marching the Eterians of Ypsilanty to join the rest of the Greek forces.Quote:
. But from what you say rex i conclude that you want to make ipsilantis army like the Huns faction in B.I, i mean kinda nomadic?
As for the army of ipsilantis my only objection is to what faction will he belong? I prefer to have the sacred band units (ipsilantis army was called the sacred band) for the greek and maybe the wallachian faction if you like, but not having him as a nomad faction running around the Balkans
Historically speaking, There are 2 armies in Wallachian Land at that moment, the army of Tudor Vladimirescu and the army of Alexander Ypsilanti. They where allied but not united. Unfortunately for both of them, in real history they had a conflict and Ypsilanti tried and killed Vladimirescu. The "Pandurii" of Vladimirescu because of this did not join in great number the armyes of the Eteria afterwards, leading to the defeat of the heavily ountnumbered Eterians in Wallachia after some bloody battles against the Turks.
I agree, it is more than interesting. But still, it would be nice if somehow we would be able to make some Ottoman strongholds in certain points. It will make very interesting for the balkanic faction plauer to attempt eliminating all the resistance, while the Ottoman player will need to concentrate in defending these strongpoints, gather forces and launch a counter-attack.Quote:
Now on to the Mod, it is possible to start the player with just one army, and have a trigger that will cause several cities of our choosing initially part of the Otoman empire switch faction. I am not the best for this kind of scripting but as I understand it, it is possible.
Very good ide with the mercenary ! But, what if the allied armyes appear from the very begining (not scripted) and they start as belonging to the faction to wich they are allied... such as the Egyptians start as a Turkish fleet, etc.Quote:
Having allied forces as arriving in an event fashion is also interesting, however I think it may remove a bit of strategical decision making on the part of player in contrast to having them in merc queues.
Oh yes of cource, the trigger is not meant to turn the whole country of a faction in to that factions possesions.Quote:
I agree, it is more than interesting. But still, it would be nice if somehow we would be able to make some Ottoman strongholds in certain points. It will make very interesting for the balkanic faction plauer to attempt eliminating all the resistance, while the Ottoman player will need to concentrate in defending these strongpoints, gather forces and launch a counter-attack.
As an exemple, lets assume(theoretically) that Wallachia has a total of 10 territories, there could be revolutions in 3-5 of them, leaving the other 7-5 for the player to take.
While this would be the situation of the wallachian faction, the revolutions can hapen in all revolting factions in the same faction, so the Turk facton has to deal with multiple fronts while each revolting faction has to deal with their local Turking strongholds, so yes, I agree with you here, it still needs to be a strugle to to free one's own faction. :) Or a Strugle to for the Turk player to hold on to a revolting empire.
Two types of tactical situation are opening here :)
This is something that we can actually try while we play test the mod. It is easy to move Units from bellonging to a certain faction or being mercenaries, so we can try both in practice and see which is more fun and challenging and make a decision there, both present unique way of playing this out.Quote:
Very good ide with the mercenary ! But, what if the allied armyes appear from the very begining (not scripted) and they start as belonging to the faction to wich they are allied... such as the Egyptians start as a Turkish fleet, etc.
One of the main reasons however I am more for the merc approach is that these troops can be more disciplined and trained as professional armies compared to the rebells of each faction.
While important to have in any army, their availability was historically limited, hence the merc queues, it up to the player to assign them to the proper fronts.
If they are buildable by factions it would be a bit odd to have armies full of foreign troops...no?
In other words, it is a Wallachian revolution not a British, French or Russian revolution.
I still think that we should test both approaches nevertheless.
Hmmm thats ver nice. But well need some people with scripting experience (much scripting experience) one more modeller, one to make the map. Thats for starters. Rex Suraknar do you know anybody who can help us?
Map is coming... tommorow the map heights is finished (thanks to BHD and his tutorial). Today i am working on it and progress is VERY GOOD.
It will be usable (i am currently tweaking a little the islands in order for us to be able to make settlements on them, howewer i will stick to geographicall accuracy and keeping the proportions - it will be 99% geographically accurate and 2% pixels ~:) - ,howewer we will still have to use later the Map Editor (wich i do not now yet how to use it properly) for making the mountains look good, etc.
It covers the same area covered by the map i have posted before.
Very Good News Rex! :2thumbsup:
@Merilitos,
If push comes to shove I may jump in and help with modeling & skinning, at this time however I have an overcharged shedule as is and I dont want to promisse and not be able to deliver.
dont worry i will start modeling myself and if i need help i will ask for it. Right now iv got to finish some aztec models for rex BUT next week ill start modeling and skinning. Maybe if we post the first screenshots some will be interested.
Im working the list for the Ottoman empire, trying to make it as historcally accurate and as player friendly as possible. But we need the lists for the Serbs and the Bulgars. Is there anyone who can help? I know the Bulgars had the haiduks, but thats all i know
You rock man!! Keep it up!!
I see you already set a fellow Romanian's feelings on fire LOL :) ,
judging that you're on RTW... if you need any help with ... mapping, coding, units, unit names...whatever... just drop me a PM I might be able to help you...
Best of luck,
Arbaces.
thanks we will use all the help we can get. Ill start modeling this weekend, so you will have sth to script about. We will settle the final form of the mod this week and then rex can contact you to tell you what we need and you can start some sckriptingQuote:
Originally Posted by Arbaces
Here is JPG version of the map...the original is in tga format.
Is it good enough ?
https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/...agreciawk3.jpg
Off course, it can be resized if needed.
Unfortunately, i do not have (YET) the slightest idea how to insert it in the game...
COuld be good loading scenes !
From Eugene Delacroix, Masacre on the Island of CHios.
Could be good idea to use paintings ~;) Plenty of them, and also they make a good imersion into the atmosphere of the era.
https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/...rvonchivu4.jpg
rex man youve read my mind. We will use paintings and old lithographies for the loading screens. Rex tommorow ill send you the protraits for the greek and ottoman faction, so as to find sth relevant for the wallachians.
The map looks fine, only one point but it doesnt matter so much if you leave it unchanged. In thessaloniki area, at chalkidiki you made one ~foot~ look like an island. All three ~foots~ of the chalkidiki peninsula are attached to the land. Arbaces my friend will you script for us?
If you wish to include Moldova too (I would), a good idea would be to rotate the map about 45 degrees so that it won't intersect with any Austro-Hungarian region, thus not making it's inclusion necessary.
Yes melritos, I will join your squad and do whatever I can, with as much time as I can get, to help your LoD Mod!
Arbaces
I am on it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by meliritos
Now I found something interesting while researching units, that can possibly be a Local Mercenary or even a Common Unit amongst the rebelling factions, with appropriat faction colors etc.
Read on :)
Aromanians (also called: Arumanians or Macedo-Romanians; in Aromanian they call themselves Arumâni, Armâni, Rămăni, Rumâni or Aromâni) are a people living throughout the southern Balkans, especially in northern Greece, Albania, the Republic of Macedonia and Bulgaria, and as an emigrant community in Romania (Dobruja). They are the second most populous group of Vlachs, behind modern-day Romanians.
They speak the Aromanian language, a Romance language related to Romanian, sometimes classified as a dialect of it. Due to the common language foundations, dating from the times of Latin language, historians believe that the language link with Romanian was interrupted between the 7th and 9th century, after the most important features of the Proto-Romanian language were formed.
There are many theories regarding the origins of the Aromanians. In Greece, they are believed to be descending from a local Greek population that was Latinised immediately following the Roman conquest of Greece, or later, during the first centuries of the Byzantine Empire when Latin continued to be the official language. On the contrary, in Romania they are considered to be the descendants of Latinised Dacian settlers who emigrated to the south.
In total, the main theories regarding the origins of Aromanians describe them as:
* Descendants of ancient Thracians and/or Illyrians
or
* The descendants of Roman colonizers and soldiers, who would receive agricultural lands as payments for their services.
or
* Latinized Greeks
It is however clear that until the 7th - 9th century, Romanians and Aromanians spoke the same eastern variant of Vulgar Latin, often known as Proto-Romanian.
In the Middle Ages, Aromanians created semi-autonomous states on the territory of modern Greece, such as Great Wallachia or Small Wallachia.
Aromanians played an important role in the independence wars of various Balkan countries, against the Ottoman Empire.
Full Articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Aromanians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Aromanians
And a nice photo for the modeling :)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...h_Shepherd.png
Continuing research...
Hmm, i will corect that area ~:)
Also, Arbaces can help us with the map.
Here i found today some images dating from that period:
SOUTHERN VLAH
https://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1339/pozaib6.jpg
BALKAN TROOP IREGULARS FROM THE OTTOMAN ARMY (from an earlyer period,
altough, i guess)
From left to right, the first 2 are Albanians, the one from the background is Bosnian and the one with the long cap is Vlach.
https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/...acia03ats8.jpg
ETERIA FIGHTING IN BUCHAREST AGAINS THE OTTOMANS
https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/...est1821he7.jpg