Has anyone here read Michael P. Speidel's Ancient Germanic Warriors?

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Originally Posted by Teutobod II

There is no real Germanic cavalry, they are actually only better trained warriors on horseback who would also dismount and fight on foot...
a Germanic specialty was to cut the attacking horses knee tendons - maybe that was their success against the Gaul cavalry ?

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Here i disagree with you - a example is the description of the battle between Ariovist and Caesar. And in this battle it is definately clear that the germanics had a cavalry clash with the romans and did not dismount before.
Also a battle between the Aedui and the Suebians is mentioned in this way.

Alone for the previously described tactic the germanic had to train those fast runners along with horsemen over a long time.

But i agree with you when you mean they had no typical cavalry that was only trained for cavalry warfare, because germanic horsemen were very versatile and could dismount if necessary.

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Originally Posted by SaFe

Here i disagree with you - a example is the description of the battle between Ariovist and Caesar. And in this battle it is definately clear that the germanics had a cavalry clash with the romans and did not dismount before.
Also a battle between the Aedui and the Suebians is mentioned in this way.

Alone for the previously described tactic the germanic had to train those fast runners along with horsemen over a long time.

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yes, read that too...

[/QUOTE]But i agree with you when you mean they had no typical cavalry that was only trained for cavalry warfare, because germanic horsemen were very versatile and could dismount if necessary.[/QUOTE]
:yes: yes, thats about what I tried to say

Don't want to state the obvious but the only way to simulate this fast moving infantry with cavalry tactic in the RTW engine is 2 seperate units. A cavalry unit and an infantry (skirmisher?) unit that is deployed infront/behind it and engages the enemy at about the same time.

As a player you can do this. If the infantry hit first then they soak up the enemy charge, making your own cavalry's charge more effective. If your cavalry hit first then the infantry 'infiltrate' the melee, adding extra attacks etc.

Now, getting the AI to simulate this is another thing.....

Cheers,

Quilts

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Originally Posted by Quilts

Don't want to state the obvious but the only way to simulate this fast moving infantry with cavalry tactic in the RTW engine is 2 seperate units. A cavalry unit and an infantry (skirmisher?) unit that is deployed infront/behind it and engages the enemy at about the same time.

As a player you can do this. If the infantry hit first then they soak up the enemy charge, making your own cavalry's charge more effective. If your cavalry hit first then the infantry 'infiltrate' the melee, adding extra attacks etc.

Now, getting the AI to simulate this is another thing.....

Cheers,

Quilts

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Your're correct here, but the AI would never field up such kind of troops in this way.
Sadly:-(

So I take it nobody has read the book?

I guess I'm wanting to encourage the reading of the book because a lot of the warrior styles discussed in the book could be used to develope new and interesting units for the Sweboz or perhaps a future Germanic faction when the mod is exported to Medieval 2.

Who is the current Germanic expert guy? I'd be happy to quote the book and discuss the subject further with him/her(I assume its a him)

Viking Im glad you mentioned the book, Ill be looking for it. Im not familiar with the author but hopefully it was well researched.
Safe the only thing I disagree with you on your last posts is about the Teutons. I believe it was the Ambrones who were considered to be part Celtic. I believe the Teutons and Cimbri were Germanic. The cavalry discussion Im in agreement with you. I am also in agreement with you on the baritus. I think that would be great if that could be implemented.
Geoffrey s I have to agree with you on the time frame. In 273 the spartan war machine was weak compared to its former abilities. I still have a hard time with the Gaesatae being ranked so tough. It mostly comes from the lack of armor. One on one armor may not be so important, but in unit combat its very important. I have read what I could on the Gaesatae but I havent come across much information on their exploits. Ive checked wikipedia and a few other places but found little information on their martial prowess. Wikipedia did say that they had an edge on other Celtic armies, but in the battles I read about it didnt say much about them being a major part. Im hoping that you or someone else can tell me where to look up information on the Gaesatae. I appreciate all of you guys responding and the information you have been providing.

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Originally Posted by Frostwulf

Viking Im glad you mentioned the book, Ill be looking for it. Im not familiar with the author but hopefully it was well researched.
Safe the only thing I disagree with you on your last posts is about the Teutons. I believe it was the Ambrones who were considered to be part Celtic. I believe the Teutons and Cimbri were Germanic. The cavalry discussion Im in agreement with you. I am also in agreement with you on the baritus. I think that would be great if that could be implemented.
Geoffrey s I have to agree with you on the time frame. In 273 the spartan war machine was weak compared to its former abilities. I still have a hard time with the Gaesatae being ranked so tough. It mostly comes from the lack of armor. One on one armor may not be so important, but in unit combat its very important. I have read what I could on the Gaesatae but I havent come across much information on their exploits. Ive checked wikipedia and a few other places but found little information on their martial prowess. Wikipedia did say that they had an edge on other Celtic armies, but in the battles I read about it didnt say much about them being a major part. Im hoping that you or someone else can tell me where to look up information on the Gaesatae. I appreciate all of you guys responding and the information you have been providing.

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http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-German...6439639&sr=1-3

Thats the book if youre interested, and about half of the book seems to be footnotes and references.

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Originally Posted by SaFe

The runner cavalry is modelwise not possible. At least that was told me different times as i tried to implement this important unit to get rid of the typical defeats germanic cavalries suffer in the game by their gallic counterparts.

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We actually had this unit included in v.74, but the problem was you couldn't get it to run as fast as a horseman, and you definitely couldn't get indivdual foot units to pair up with a cavalryman. Although.....(heads off to "New Concepts" forum with a completely insane idea) :viking:

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Originally Posted by Kull

We actually had this unit included in v.74, but the problem was you couldn't get it to run as fast as a horseman, and you definitely couldn't get indivdual foot units to pair up with a cavalryman. Although.....(heads off to "New Concepts" forum with a completely insane idea) :viking:

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I'm really awaiting those insane ideas of your EB-structured mind.

Could that be done in MTW2 though? If you can have differently equipped soldiers in the same unit then could you mix mounted and foot soldiers in the same unit?

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Originally Posted by Conqueror

Could that be done in MTW2 though? If you can have differently equipped soldiers in the same unit then could you mix mounted and foot soldiers in the same unit?

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No. M2:TW makes use of a modular skin (i.e. something like 4 head variations, 4 torso variations, 4 shield variations), but all soldiers still use the same model.

Thanks for the link viking, Ill look into it. :book: