Is this power of his "behind the scenes", or does Erdogan weild formal power over the AKP MP's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Komutan
Either way it's pretty disturbing :no:
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Is this power of his "behind the scenes", or does Erdogan weild formal power over the AKP MP's?Quote:
Originally Posted by Komutan
Either way it's pretty disturbing :no:
A political party can make a "group decision" about such votes, forcing all its members to give the same vote. This does not bind anyone legally of course, but if a member does not vote the way it is decided, the party can take disciplinary actions against him, maybe even expel him from the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
I do not think anything is wrong with this. When you are a member of a party, you have to obey its decisions in certain critical issues. If your opinions differ, why stay a member?
In a parlimentary system there is voting and then there is free voting. He weilds formal power over all members of the party. He can order them around (they are his subordiantes). Including demand they vote a certain way on any parlimentary vote. Also as leader of the party he can step on any one who doesn't tow the line as it were. The absolute worst he could do is toss them from the party altogether. But for a contentious issue like letting the US invade Iraq from eastern Turkey, a free vote is the only option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
How so? It's bog standard for parlimentary governments. The exact same powers are weilded by Tony Blair, Stephen Harper, John Howard, Bertie Ahern, and Ehud Olmert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenring
Yesterday they said on the news that there would be riots resembling civil war in Turkey.
They said that a court nullified the last elections because the elected guy was too islamistic and now people protest/riot against that guy(why? if the court already settled the case, why do they riot?) and police fights them(they showed some policement with grenade launchers for gas or so).
Now I wonder whether and how much of that is right and why I think what they said doesn't really make sense?
If people protested against that guy and in favour of secularism, why was he elected?
Why do they riot after the court did exactly what they wanted?
havent seen a post from lefteyenine or komutan in a day or two, both list thier locations as turkey, hope all is well in your world fellas.
Now seriously things are getting more clear for me about the foreign perspective on Turks. If you're all given those "snotty tissues" or "semenic airings" as sources of news, no wonder really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
or that Husar watched series of news and decided to craft them together into an abomination :laugh4: .
Well the elections that The Court of Constitution nullified was the 1st round of president elections made a few days ago, which had to extend to the 2nd round due to the lack of minimum votes required for an exact result.
The elected guy is the vice prime minister Abdullah Gül, who is also the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
This one, he is:
https://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8053/agsb2vv1.jpg
The November 28, 1995 dated paper's headline translates:
Need to say more besides the photo I gave in the 1st page ? Ideals don't change. And power feeds them.Quote:
"Here is Refah 's (Islamic political party of which most of the current AKP were once members) real intention! Terrifying Confession
Vice President of Refah Party, Abdullah Gül says "It's the end of the Republic era". In an interview published in the British newspaper, The Guardian, the Refah party executive obviously challenged secularism and the republic"
The riot is more than "a riot", which encouraged the Court of Constitution to decide (yesterday) in such manner as the nullification of the president elections. The beautifully monstrous marches organized in 14th and 29th of April were reactions against such threats over the top anministrative chairs of the country.
"The police using tear gas on the riot" belongs to the big disorder on 1st of May, Labour Day protests, not something related to the marches of 14th and 29th of April.
You sure have a bunch of idiots or "naaaasty" kids as journalists, Husar.
And, fellow, I doubt explaining AKP's total domination as "people send their kids to have them learn Kuran" and such is very accurate.Quote:
For years Turkish people have been brainwashed by Islamic cults and similar institutions. Some parents send their children, before they can even read and write, to imams for teaching them Kuran. This is the reason why AKP got so many votes. With such a population, I find it absurd that people are blaming USA for the success of AKP.
Here are the election-by-election vote results throughout Turkey's lifetime up to now. You may also claim that people all grew their kids as both Grey Wolves and as social democratic individuals, according to previous results based on your view.
As the 90's and on indicate, the political despair of Turkish society can easily be spotted. Parties who were (/will) never be able to see such election results went through their golden ages by these years.
So following 9/11 and the operations for a better Middle East (Uncle Sam Warns You!), a moderate Islamic portray of AKP with an absolute power could play an ideal role on this "stage". Feeding from the series of political failures and cheer leader-ism of USA (Edelman visits Erdogan while in prison. Cuuute!), AKP beat votes hell out of other parties. CHP's tremendous result after so many years was another politically "down" result of Turkish society.
Don't make me mention about Fethullah Gülen, the leader of "Nurcu" community, the "lovely moderate Islamist" being guarded by FBI in USA ~:)
USA just loves to grow such mullahs up who eventually "hijack planes". :shame:
Edit: We're fine, Odin. Having gone through numerous crises which stirred up many countries, driving things into anarchy there, we are virtually immune to being "sick". :bow:
Thank you for asking, Odin :beam: . But everything is ok here.
What happened yesterday was not about the Islamist-Secularist conflict. 1st of may is Labour Day and every year extreme left groups use this as an opportunity for showing themselves. On some years there are really big riots. But the riots yesterday were pretty mild ones.
Glad all is well with you and lefteyenine. Just to give you an idea of how things are portrayed in the U.S. (mostly mainstream media) very little attention was given to the fact that May Day is a tradtional day of protest, and that the protests were tied into the turkish election issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komutan
Obviously a turkish citizen would know more about the motivations of groups in thier country, but here in the U.S. the media has become highly politicized on just about every issue. Which inturn in this case creates a false impression of the scope of the election issue in turkey, if in fact may 1st is a tradtional protest day.
Its become very sexy in the U.S. media to point a finger at any potential political wrinkle of a percieved Bush admin allie (the current turkish admin is viewed as an ally here in the states).
..summarizes what I'm babbling about, ain't it ? ~:)Quote:
(the current turkish admin is viewed as an ally here in the states).
I agree parties should take measures, even scrap someone from the list who goes against the party line too much, but that decision shouldn't be up to someone who's taken post as a minister but to the leader of the party fraction in parliament or a party chairman without public office. If the actual government can force a majority to always endorse its policy a parliament becomes a rubber stamp charade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komutan
Thought so, we have these here as well, this year I scored 5 policemen.:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
In the news they said the riots were related to the Gül election or so, pretty weird. Well, it was RTL, I was already asking myself why I still watch their news, I think it was because they were presented by Susanne Kronzucker.:sweatdrop:
Turkey is a military dictatorship, not a democracy, judging from today's events. Then again democracy everywhere only applies as long as Islamists don't come to power, then democracy is thrown out and the guns brought it.
Dude, is she your mum or something? :dozey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
No, but she looks better than any dude or the woman who will tell me what the stars have planned for me tomorrow...Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
There's not much choice on Tv when you're bored around midnight and don't like sexual content or quizshows.:juggle2:
Don't like sexual content? Sheesh, Banquo's Ghost was right: you do need to get out more. :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
:laugh4:
Damm ! That woman is freaking hot. I should watch the news more often, on RTL.
Oh my.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinan
Democracy is something we haven't achieved -yet I'm not sure if people wholeheartedly are asking for it in its pure meaning.
However I find the "military dictatorship" extraction from the recent incidents too harsh -which were contradictively the indicators of how Turkish society was more and more getting used to using their democratic rights, being aware of its effect as a measure against policies they don't agree.
It depends on the content itself, I don't know whether that word, and you know it anyway, is kosher on the org, don't see it often here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
And yes, I do need to get out more.:help:
For the UK this is somewhat "logical" because ministers are simultaniously MP's, and I imagine the same is true for the rest of the commonwealth.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
This is not the case in the Netherlands (or other, non-Westminster style systems AFAIK), where ministers-to-be have to renounce their seats in parliament. This comes from the principle of "dualism"; the position of minister is incompatible with the position that's supposed to watch over minsiters: MP's.