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The reason why I referred to the earlier episode is that there has been a continuity of Turkish-Islamic nationalism from the late Ottoman period through the Third Republic. Don't you agree that as long as Turkish identity is associated exclusively with ethnic Turkishness and Islam, and as long as the Turkish State supports this association directly and indirectly, there will be incidents like the one in Malatya?Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
Quick question:
In today's paper it was said that it was illegal for people (missionaries) to convert people away from Islam in Turkey. Is this true ?
It doesn't match very well with the idea of Turkey as a secular state.
But the chat has come to a point where is there a genocide or not? That's not the place for it, that's why I asked if we could talk about something related.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
I can't judge Mustafa Kemal Atatürk 's decision on the basis he founded Turkey.Quote:
Don't you agree that as long as Turkish identity is associated exclusively with ethnic Turkishness and Islam, and as long as the Turkish State supports this association directly and indirectly, there will be incidents like the one in Malatya?
As long as it was a religious state again, it would be impossible to keep up with what he called "muasır medeniyetler" (=modern civilizations). So he decided on a nation-based state again and built the state over this basis.
Politically, I mean scientific politically, every state needs a self-identity. And for the foundation years, Atatürk chose the best possible. It was nationalist but not racially oppressive. What could have gone wrong, went wrong after him.
Most notable of his quotes is "Ne Mutlu Türk 'üm Diyene!" which means "How happy is one who says I'm Turk !". If it was around an ethnic Turkishness he'd say it out as "How happy one who is Turk!". His very basic quote emphasizes about an over-identity of "Turkishness" representing patriotism and connection to the country.
I'm utterly disturbed with fascist movement of 80's that embraced Turkish nationalism as if Turkish nationalism is all about having pure Turkic genetics, which is, in these lands after so many years, a nutjob. Ethnic nationalism is a nutjob from the start anyways. I'm a Turk because I feel connected with the land, state, language and the history.
The only government obviously supporting ethnic Turkish nationalism after 80's was MHP's, in coalition with DSP. Seriously, for quite some time, regarding only one example of government, ethnic Turkish nationalism was rarely a state policy. Islamic affections were a lot more frequent.
Newspapers, toiletpapers.Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
Glad to hear that :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
We really need a politically correct cheers smiley