Re: Speak Dutch or be fired
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Originally Posted by Redleg
One first has to prove that the individuals in question are attempting to do something wrong by hiding behind a language you can not speak.
Well, the boss said he just wanted to prevent the forming of groups, and he probably has his reasons to try to prevent that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Why? Is not a group that speak a language unable to speak that language soley because the public around them can not speak it?
I don't really get that. Noone is forbidden anything, I just said I feel excluded sometimes and that feeling excluded by a friend is not all that nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
I find such a statement to be in a direct conflict with a basic principle of freedom that I hold dear. Freedom is not about convience or having everybody speak the same language.
That's right.
But there is also something called integration and that can hardly happen if you constantly alienate others by speaking a language they don't speak.
By sticking to a non-local language you create your own small group of mostly foreigners and that isn't really the essence of integration, is it?
The question is, do you want freedom or integration?
Re: Speak Dutch or be fired
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Well, the boss said he just wanted to prevent the forming of groups, and he probably has his reasons to try to prevent that.
And I would have to strongly disagree with him. Unless he can prove that the group is engaged in some sort of wrong doing, the boss is engaged in baised behavior. It might not be something that is unlawful but I find it unethical.
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I don't really get that. Noone is forbidden anything, I just said I feel excluded sometimes and that feeling excluded by a friend is not all that nice.
My solution would be to have my friend teach me his language. But then that is just me.
Quote:
That's right.
But there is also something called integration and that can hardly happen if you constantly alienate others by speaking a language they don't speak.
By sticking to a non-local language you create your own small group of mostly foreigners and that isn't really the essence of integration, is it?
The question is, do you want freedom or integration?
I prefer freedom of the individual over intergration. The individual must be able to communicate to the people and the government where he choses to live, but that doesn't mean that he should refrain from speaking the language of his former nation.
Re: Speak Dutch or be fired
What's the big deal? Makes perfectly good sense to me that only one language is used. During lunch is a perhaps bit much, but at least it's consequent.
Re: Speak Dutch or be fired
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
By sticking to a non-local language you create your own small group of mostly foreigners and that isn't really the essence of integration, is it?
You don't understand the dynamics of immigration. The host culture can be very imposing, its ubiquitousness can be crushing at times. Trying to express yourself all the time in a newly learned language that you master only partially is an added burden and it can be very tiresome and frustrating.
And the process of integration comes in stages. In the beginning everything is new and strange and probably exciting to the newcomer, and he thinks he will never ever be able to accommodate and integrate.
Once he begins to understand the local language and customs, the feeling can be exhilarating and total submersion in the new culture seems within his grasp.
That's when the immigrant discovers that there are aspects he will never master, no matter how hard he tries. He will never get all the subtleties, understand every little gesture and nuance, fit right in, have a real sense of belonging or eb regarded as a complete equal by the host culture. That is the sensation that Bijo was referring to. At this stage immigrants realise they will never be at home in their life, either in their country of origin or in their host country. This can be quite frustrating as they get older.
As for language on the job, I guess it depends on the time and place. You can relax the one-language rule during lunch, but you can't have different languages on the work floor where people have to do precision work, where there are health and safety issues, etcetera.
And generally speaking immigrants should learn the host language in the interest of their children. If they don't, they put their kids at a disadvantage in school, and later on they will lose touch with their children as well because they can't talk to them about important or intimate matters.
