Glorious Cities!!!

I care a great deal about the way siege warfare works in this game. In fact it's the one aspect I've dedicated my studying to. Except I have studied ancient siege warfare, not mediæval. Artillery was such a tiny aspect of ancient siege warfare, of little consequence compared to the vast array of other siege-related articles. Just as you'd love to have the 3 concentric walls of Konstantinople, I'd love to have the 3 progressively taller concentric walls of Qarthadast and Thapsus. The coastal walls of Syrakousoi. Every city unique. This is a very important thing. Sieging becomes bland when every city looks the same. I'd love to have the ability to invest a city with a periteichismos (greek 400s BC, encirclement of a city using a stone wall), or simply surrounding a city with ditches and palisades like at Lilybaeum in the 1st punic war. Or a double-encircling wall circumunnitus as engineered by Vitruvius for Cæsar at Alesia. Also, sapping would be carried out in a turnbased manner, not as little molemen from some cartoon series. Logistics would also be a crucial aspect, with great ramifications for siege warfare. I had an idea which involved a timer. The moment you moved an army into an arid or desert area, a timer would start where the army's supplies would be counted down. You could essentially lose your entire army if you didn't move your army from waterhole to waterhole. Crassus made this mistake, but his army was spared the horrible fate of dying of thirst, as the Parthians attacked them at Carrhae.

Unfortunately most of my aspirations fall short of the technical limitations imposed by this otherwise great 3d engine.

But I do think it will be possible eventually. Gotta be optimistic.

Certainly, unique cities - many for which we still have maps! Though Mediæval cities are far easier to acquire maps for, we even have some accurate maps for ancient settlements! :smash:

First of all, having every city made unique in this game would be a GARGANTUAN task. Maybe "Medieval 7:TW" will have them. Thats why i said that we could at least find a way to do this with the most important ones. If a pattern is found, then we could all contribute and do them all!
But some of the cities that you refer to werent so important in the middle ages, and maybe didnt have the fortification you say, cause they would probably have moved forward for the antiquity. So lets stick to Medieval 2 and not to Antiquity TW.

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I had an idea which involved a timer. The moment you moved an army into an arid or desert area, a timer would start where the army's supplies would be counted down. You could essentially lose your entire army if you didn't move your army from waterhole to waterhole.

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Excellent. Now thats what i call realism. The thing is, that a waterhole could be a well, or a fountain, too small to put on a map. And the huge,dence forests in Germany for example arent considered friendly either. I think that this is getting it too far. At least the way TW games are layed nowadays.

I remember someone making a custom Rome in RTW but untill the modding geniuses crack the code of M2, these ideas are just ideas. I would love to fight a river battle in a city like Paris (OR VENICE!!!) or see the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

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Originally Posted by Crusader Invasion

I remember someone making a custom Rome in RTW but untill the modding geniuses crack the code of M2, these ideas are just ideas. I would love to fight a river battle in a city like Paris (OR VENICE!!!) or see the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

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Do you know where I can find that custom rome??

This may be a litle out of the main topic. I noticed that the settlements that have castle, fortresses (and so on) do have a huge "thing" planted on them that is supposed to represent the castle. Though you can't use it, its complytely useless. Wouldn't it be a great addition to the game to make it possible to have soldiers running around the outside of the castles, theres a lot of space and it would be very realistic as well as awsome to play.
Is it possible? Is it a good idea?

If i get you right, you mean the main inner building of the fortresses. I totally concur, it would be great if you could use that!

Precicely that:yes: . You could even the city centre somewere in the inner fortress, it would be awsome to use it. I hope some of the modders see this thread.
Still, is it possible or not?

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Originally Posted by Sandouras

Hello to everyone!
I would like to suggest two things for MTR.

1) Wouldnt it be more interesting if cities where not identical to each other? As i think it is impossible to make every one of them, why not make the most important cities in Medieval history? Wouldn't it be awesome if you could assault the triple walls of Constantinople (pic related), Jerusalem, the eternal city (Rome), or fight on both sides of the river Seine (Paris).....etc?
I am just tired of besieging those bland cities that they have made for us!
Anyone who has played the game "Imperial Glory" will remember how cool it was to fight in the others capital (it had Paris,Bradenburg,Moscow and London)!
It would make those particular sieges so interesting, tactical and different! GLORIOUS! Besieging Constantinople for example (the city that didnt fall for a thousand years) would be something to behold and would not be just another bland siege on the battle map!
And on the tactical side, i think that there should be some "spice" in those sieges, like for example capturing specific points of the city or outside of it that would help you defend or capture the city. If we search at the real sieges of those cities, we could find the right and realistic "spice" to add!

Is it possible? I have no modding skills but i am so frustrated with sieges that i am willing to try it myself if someone can give me any directions.

2) I think that Huge Cathedrals should be allowed only at capitals and have an effect on public order and religion on the whole kingdom.
Also, and adding to the personalisation and awesomeness of the above cities, i think that it would be great to personalise the Huge Cathedrals of those cities on both the campaign map (name and image) and the battle map (building). Imagine St Peter's basilica in Rome, Hagia Sophia in Constantinople and Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem!

I hope you read this post and respond. I might be asking too much, but i think that things like that would add so much to the game. You would really feel the medieval air and glory!!!

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1. Surely I agree
2. I think that it will be the best that you will be able to build huge cathedrals anywgere.
the Dome of the Rock is actually a mosque and it is not so magbificant, believe me

It was magnificent at the time. Its not that big, but it is gorgeous. Maybe for us now its nothing, but for an average man back then....
Anyway, the point was customization. Its not just seeing Dome of the Rock, but believing this is Jerusalem, because it has the same shape, topography, main buildings and such. All we see now is a city in the middle of a desert with a GARGANTUAN mosque in it! Lame....

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Originally Posted by Sandouras

It was magnificent at the time. Its not that big, but it is gorgeous. Maybe for us now its nothing, but for an average man back then....
Anyway, the point was customization. Its not just seeing Dome of the Rock, but believing this is Jerusalem, because it has the same shape, topography, main buildings and such. All we see now is a city in the middle of a desert with a GARGANTUAN mosque in it! Lame....

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Believe me, I live in Israel and I know how the Dom looks like

Yeah, and as i said, admiring a monument is not the point!

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Originally Posted by Sandouras

Yeah, and as i said, admiring a monument is not the point!

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Wait a second! what you said about that Jerusalem is in the middle of the desert is not true! its a huge metropolitan area with a lot of trees and grass in it

Just how old are you orko? I bet less than 15.

God damn it, Orko...:wall: It's surrounded by a desert in the game, not in real life.


It's okay for most settlements to be square-lookin' towns, but Jerusalem, Rome and Constantinople should have been made unique... This way, it's just lame...

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Originally Posted by WarHeart88

God damn it, Orko...:wall: It's surrounded by a desert in the game, not in real life.


It's okay for most settlements to be square-lookin' towns, but Jerusalem, Rome and Constantinople should have been made unique... This way, it's just lame...

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He talked about the real city that will be copied to the games, but in real life there is not any desert!

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Originally Posted by King Orko

He talked about the real city that will be copied to the games, but in real life there is not any desert!

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I don't think that there is anyone who actually believes that Jerusalem is surrounded by a desert and nothing else. His exact words were "All we see now is a city in the middle of a desert with a GARGANTUAN mosque in it! Lame...."
It's obvious to everyone that the city in question is the vanilla city of M2TW. Don't get so easily aggravated...

In a perfect world every city would be unique and you could actually fight sea battles/amphibious landings.

Well if we're discussing what could be;

I htink the make a settlement a castle or a town was a good idea in theory -
good options from a gameplay point of view

In actuality; i think they should rescind this.
for one it makes disloyal populations too easy to pacify...

BUT IDEALLY

what you would have is that FORTS get upgraded into castles -
and the acstles can be IN a city - or anywhere else

Just about every medieval town in addition to being walled; had (usually several; but one would do for game purposes) private strongholds within it.
(google champagne fairs - troyes town map for a nice example)


this would go towards making the cities more unique AND give the player more flexibility...

addressing what was said earlier about putting those 'dead spaces' to work

I have been told in seperate; previous modding conversations that such changes are not possible - too hard-coded - to mod into m2tw -

Perhaps next time?

keep expressing what you want to see; maybe so.:yes:

God damn you Badger, are you dyslexic or something? I cant make out a word you say!

This is what happened when i tried to use my spell check:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Am_ID61Zs