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I use lots of spies now. For once, they kill enemy assasins as well as border forts. And when they get high scores you can send them onto provinces you want to conçuer yet you don´t want to wage war over (rebellion->peacekeeping force).
At worst you´ll have weakened the enemy, and improved further that spy. An early warning about an attack can be lifesaving. Althrough in Shogun you got more of those, and with more details.
One of the other main issues of civil war that I forgot earlier is faction reappearances. It can be a real killer having a faction reappear in some of your former provinces.
I love civil wars in the game, myself. The OP in fact should feel *thankful* that he experienced a civil war rather than a simple loss of the game from lack of heirs! Although a civil war may look hopeless at first, usually you can come back from it within a few years, unless you've got a superpower nearby who's just waiting to gobble up the rebel provinces that you used to own.
I almost never intentionally cause a civil war, but I do wish I experienced them a little more often. In the last civil war(s) I experienced (see my Last Lord of the North thread), I ended up backing the rebels simply because I had grown attached to this one particular general who was the ringleader. I ultimately lost the game, but I'm pretty sure I was doomed anyway, and at least it was a fun ride.
It's not necessarily true that the only way to get back your old provinces after a civil war is by bribery or conquest. I've experienced situations where civil war rebels have spontaneously re-aligned themselves with my faction -- it happened in my latest Northumbrian campaign. A civil war caused me to lose Lindissi and East Engle to rebels, but a few years later I had the armies and provinces back under my control. No bribery, no conquest. I'm not at all sure what caused it to happen... maybe my king gained a point of influence?
I've also experienced the phenomenon where rebels who were *never* affiliated with your faction spontaneously join your side. This was in another VI campaign as the Saxons a few years ago. I had killed the last Mercian king but they still had armies all over the map which promptly turned rebel. A few years later those rebels turned Saxon. Good deal. :beam:
In certain cases i tried to "engineer" a civil war taking an on-purpose disloyal bunch as army leader when a King would have an influence of 3 or 2. The puspose was to change the line of incompetent rulers i've been having seemingly without an end in certain campaigns.
In more than one occasion the civil war took 20 (!) turns or so to occur.
Civil wars can happen in the flash of an eye, though.
In one particular campaign the leader of a Crusader Foot unit that was very famous for gaining an impossible victory against the Saracens* but had subsequently led a second crusade to its death, decided to rebel against his father-in-law, king of France upon his second return as a ransomed prisoner!
Noir
*that vistory is an epic in-it-self: the small and outnumber crusader army stood the high ground in loose formation and was being litteraly shot to death - when they've decided to charge the enemy lines in a desperate sortie of sorts! the enemy general a Camel Warrior rushed from his line to meet the outnumbered crusaders, however the Crusader footsoldiers charged with such vigor and momentum downhill that the enemy general was dismounted off his camel and speared to death at the first seconds of impact. This resulted in a mass rout of the saracen force and a very unexpected victory. The next turn, the tiny now Crusader army was defeated and the general taken prisoner. The king of France payed graciously - even going into debt - the ransom for him, gave him his daughter and and placed him at the head of another Crusade, that unfortunately failed miserably and ungloriously. The general was ransomed back only to incite a civil war at home together with his comrades and some others that were not satisfied with the warfunds and men that have been lost in the Crusades, i guess.
Just for the record, he was defeated, captured and executed, personally by the King :whip:
"...a noble man making a good end!" :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir
Indeed. Nice mini-story, Noir! ~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cambyses II
But I digress. Back to topic....
This is a good point. I'm usually grateful when I suffer a civil war, because usually the alternative is that I simply lose the game from my ruling family having died off. Most of my civil wars are a result of the faction leader dying without a direct heir, as opposed to a civil war started by a rebellious general -- the latter only happens if I allow it to, as it means I intend to back the Rebels anyway. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CountMRVHS
I've not experienced that myself, but I have heard of it happening on rare occasions. In your example, had you tried to take back Lindissi and East Engle yet? I'm just wondering if former rebels can return to you if you've already fought them before. :book:Quote:
Originally Posted by CountMRVHS
Hmm, that's odd. I could see you receiving former Mercian lands as a result of a marriage between your two rulling families; but the problem with that theory (aside from assuming you two and Mercia even *did* have blood ties) is that you should've received those provinces immediately upon the destruction of the Mercian kingdom, and not several years afterward. Very strange. :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by CountMRVHS
Hi Martok: in my example, I had forgotten all about Lindissi and East Engle, assuming the Mercians or Vikings would snap them up instantly. I didn't try to take them back, or even send an agent down there to see what was going on. But a few turns later they were back in my possession. That was during a period when I was suffering a civil war every few turns, so maybe that had something to do with it?
Regarding the former Mercian rebels spontaneously turning Saxon... it *was* several years ago so I suppose my memory might be a bit sketchy about it. But I'm almost positive I had no ties of marriage to the Mercians -- and even if I did, I shouldn't have inherited anyway since I was at war with them. I know I didn't bribe those rebels -- they just joined my side. But maybe I'm remembering it wrong, and the rebels were actually formerly *Saxons*, in which case things would have progressed like with Lindissi and East Engle above. Not sure.... But whatever happened, it was nice at the time. Too bad the Irish (of all factions!) ended up steamrolling me in the end! :dizzy2:
Maybe they were in a province that belonged to you and there was a pseudo-loyalist-revolt after the Mercians got wiped?
How come you have civil war ? My Byzantine empire extends from Egypt to Novo., but my King die at 71. Then a few year after that, his successor die at 57. The game end there, no civil war, no chance for recovery.
I am playing MTW vanila version.
Nine times out of ten when your faction dies out it's game over. Occasionally, certain conditions permitting, instead of this occurring a civil war may break out. This is caused by your having generals married into the royalty (you had married your princesses to your own generals) or you have generals with Royal blood that were still when the king died.
Personally I always try to create some strong individuals with links to the royalty. When the faction leader dies and his heir succeeds to the throne, the faction leader's brothers usually drop out of succession (the "uncles" you may hear mentioned on occasions). These men can be both an asset and a major problem in that they can be very disloyal to the new faction leader and on occasions lead a civil war against him. They can be an asset as they provide you with an extended Royal line that can help to guarantee your faction's survival. When these men additionally drop from succession you can do a number of things with them:
i) Ignore them.
ii) Disband their units to save on support costs, especially if they're vice ridden useless cowards with 2 loyalty and pathetic stats. In this case it's best to use their units to merge into others that need topping up and then disband what's left. You could also use him as some training for your spies.
iii) You can give them an administrative title to boost their loyalty and other stats.
iv) If they have good acumen they can be given governorship of a province to improve loyalty in particular - and sometimes other stats.
v) They can now be married to your princesses without gaining the Secret Incest/Incest vice - to improve loyalty and more firmly attach them to the royal line.
The first and second points are self explanatory, the next few points can be combined and need some further explanation. The main issue with generals, even those that were previously heirs is that they die of old age (if you're playing MTW v1.x ignore this bit). This means that though a man can be of royal blood and/or married to a princess, when he dies, even though he is replaced by a general of identical stats, vices and virtues, he loses his royal connections and royal bride. The loyalty increasing effects of marrying the princess remain, but the marriage itself does not (signified by the ring icon disappearing). At this point you may want to marry this new man again to another princess, though if you have another finer general he may make a better candidate. The problem is that, not really knowing a general's age, you have no idea if the man you've just married your 15 year old daughter to is in fact 75 years old and could die the next year. This is why you need to keep a constant watch on such generals if your royal line is getting a bit thin. You should marry your princesses to them to improve their loyalty and give them governorship. I regularly demote governors and hand their jobs over to newer more fitting candidates. If I find a group of newly demoted "uncles" (ex heirs) I will very often award titles to them if they're suitable.
The moral of this is: Don't hand your princesses over to other factions, there is very little to be gained from this and they are better used at home.
:bow:
Actually, I wonder if the uncle get the throne if his brother the King passed away without a heir (or a heir too young) ?
Also, without cheat code, how do you get your King to produce offspring ? I think my King is married, but he didn't produce any son for too long (mostly daughter), then go on to live to an extreme age which make the cheat code unusable for his old-heir :(
And finally, in emergency, I can marry one of the princess to the heir, but will that affect my King's line ? I mean will their stats start to deteriorate over time ? That "incess" vice, will it continue with the line all the way ?
Uncles are ruled out of the equation once their nephew ascent to the throne. Their only option is to accept these terms, or try to lead a rebellion.
Offspring is random. Besides the cheat, you just have to be lucky. I don't think it has ever been confirmed that staying put in certain provinces will enhance your chances, but maybe somebody else will prove me wrong.
As History Geek said, uncles may get the throne as part of a civil war that may occur as a result of your leader dying heirless. There is no guarantee of this though.Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight
This is just the luck of the draw. You need to keep a close eye on your heirs and if you have none at all, consider using .unfreeze. The other option you have is to marry your daughters to your generals and hope that when your faction leader dies, there is a civil war among these for the throne.Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight
You can marry your princesses to your leader or heirs with no side effects other than the Secret Incest/Incest vice that affects piety and nothing else. This won't affect future generations and is not linked to the inbred line of vices. ("inbred", "chinless wonder", etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by dknight