Faction thread 4: Dwarves

I have plan some more dwarven tech system.

From cities you could get Miners, Slayers (Troll/Giant), Rangers and warmachines. I think that Miners and Slayers should be get from cities because that is the place where civilians really live and Miners and Slayers are civilians right? Or then Rangers will go to castle tech system and there could be Clansmen.

From castles you could get real army. Warriors, Quarrelers, Thunderers, Longbeards, Ironbreackers, warmachines etc.

Should Hammerers be general's bodyguard or independent unit or both?

If racial bonuses are doable then Dwarfs should get bonus to mining profit and maybe cheaper armour.


Is there going to be more faction threads. Empire and Bretonnia have units so they could have their own threads. Especially The Mighty Sigmarite Empire. :2thumbsup:

That's all... For this time.

Bonuses for mining are tricky because the abilites of buildings are set for all factions. While it is possible for dwarves to build a different set of mines that will provide more bonuses if this factions is conqured then another faction could build a regular mine in addtion to the dwarven one. It way be better if dwarves could build more mine related buildings or upgrade to a higher level of mines than other factions.

I believe that the EDU can be modified to change a unit's upgrade cost, so it is possible that dwarves can get cheaper upgrades.

Building effects can be set by faction.

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Originally Posted by Jubee

I have plan some more dwarven tech system.

From cities you could get Miners, Slayers (Troll/Giant), Rangers and warmachines. I think that Miners and Slayers should be get from cities because that is the place where civilians really live and Miners and Slayers are civilians right? Or then Rangers will go to castle tech system and there could be Clansmen.

From castles you could get real army. Warriors, Quarrelers, Thunderers, Longbeards, Ironbreackers, warmachines etc.

Should Hammerers be general's bodyguard or independent unit or both?

If racial bonuses are doable then Dwarfs should get bonus to mining profit and maybe cheaper armour.


Is there going to be more faction threads. Empire and Bretonnia have units so they could have their own threads. Especially The Mighty Sigmarite Empire. :2thumbsup:

That's all... For this time.

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Slayers aren't just civilians. every dwarf can become a slayer.

a slayer is basicly a dwarf that has done something bad etc.. and wants to redeem his sins by finding the strongest enemy possibly and die a honorable death in battle

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Originally Posted by overkill1991

Slayers aren't just civilians. every dwarf can become a slayer.

a slayer is basicly a dwarf that has done something bad etc.. and wants to redeem his sins by finding the strongest enemy possibly and die a honorable death in battle

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Slayers in armies are Slayers who've gone out on their troll-/dragon-/whatever-slaying quest. Killed the beast but survived. Since they survived and the only way the can die honorable is in battle they give their services to a Dwarf lord/thane.

Since regular army is raised in castles, and militias are raised in cities, it makes most sense that Slayers returning from quests would gravitate toward castles only. They're basically the elite of elite. Just not so well armoured.

As far as I know most slayers are no elite troops. The stats of troll slayers are the same (apart from Ld) as simple warriors (at least in my old dwarf army book), they take advantage of being some sort of berserker to have easier fights against monsters and heroes as well as being unbreakable. They are doom seekers, as soon as they see an opportunity for a heroic death, they run towards it no matter what, may it be battle (if by any chance there is one around) or beasts (which I agree is the most common starting point).

In Grudge Bearer they describe slayers running in front of their armies towards a huge chaos dwarf army even if it's a waste of good dwarfs...they should be almost impossible to control (charge without orders and the such).

In Gotrek and Felix (dun remember which opus...think it's dragon slayer) they speak of the temple of Grimnir in Karak Kadrin being the center of the slayer community and the place where they solemnly take their oaths...therefore imho slayers should be “trained” wherever there is a temple of Grimnir be it town or castle.

Another suggestion is that slayer units surviving battles (shame on them) pick up negative points: create unrest in settlements, disband...a massive bonus would be to have them refusing to fight when the odds of the battle are in favour of their army :laugh4:

Another suggestion for temples and deities:
temple of Grungni
improved armors and/or weapons

temple of Grimnir
give xp to units or allows training of slayers (simple temple gives troll slayers, more advanced giant slayers,...)

temple of Valaya
bonus against unrest or faster population increase

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Originally Posted by Casuir

Building effects can be set by faction.

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Can you please explain how this can be achieved without creating a whole new building just for the dwarves?

Please tell me then what will be the goods if the slayers die in battle.what they will rise from their graves?ok i am just kidding,but the opposite may be intersted:egypt:

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Originally Posted by uanime5

Can you please explain how this can be achieved without creating a whole new building just for the dwarves?

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put "requires factions { whatever, }" after the effect.

So for the mines it would be

Code:

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              mine_resource 7
                        mine_resource 9 requires factions {dwarves, }

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Would this give the dwarves' a mine resource of 9 or 16?

How about gyrocopter? That would be awesome...

@uaime the second one, you put requires factions {Elves, orcs and everyone else, } after the first bonus so the dwarfs wont get it.

Amazing work with the dwarfs so far, they look bether than many other gameplay dwarfs proffesionaly made by paid artists! But i am a little concerned about their balance in gameplay.

Remember that the dwarfs who are lacking the speed and mobility of other races and rely more on armor and guns, is a defencive race. They are most happy when they can fortify themselves on a hilltop and gun down the enemy from afar.

I know many TW players hate the ideas of "defencive" and "Offensive" armies, so i was kinda hoping you culd make it so that the dwarfs are less aggressive in battles, but not overly defencive.

The dwarfs have no cavalry whatsoever. But have the strongest armor in the old world. you have to find a way to balance this, as dwarfs wuld get easely Outmanovered by their quicker enemies, beeing surounded will be evryday bouissness for the average dwarf warrior, make him an effective fighter to counter this...

I have full faith in this mod, I assume you will sort it out..

The issue with Dwarves will be covered in balancing. They will have strong morale, and good defensive ability. To offset this, they will also be relatively expensive to maintain.

Their build times for armies will be long, and they will be hard to build up to huge scales for a major offensive. This is only natural for them. While they build and prepare, they will be hard to overrun or destroy.

Their lack of mobility will be an essential tactic to fight against them, and should be the over-riding consideration when playing them.

As far as basic stats go, they are not impetuous or ill-disciplined, and when facing them, they will be hard to break. We will try and replicate the basic dwarf attitude as far as teh game AI will allow.

OK....built so far for this faction:

1) Crew ( light armour and an axe when needed )
2) Miners
3) Warrior ( chainmail and an assortment of axes with shields )
4) Heavy Warrior ( breastplate or heavy scale armour, 2 handed weapon )
5) Longbeards. Warriors with...er....longer beards and fancy helmets!
6) Iron Breakers. Stacks of armour!
7) Quarellers
8) Thunderers
9) TrollSlayers

Only thing left to make are the artillery units now.

Unless, of course, someone can come up with something vital that I have overlooked! Hammerers were considered... but they are really only heavy infantry...which I have already made. Should I just modify the heavy infantry to make them hammerers? Would only need to delete the axes in the MS3D model!

aren't Hammerers the dwarfen body guard unit as they dont have cavalry?

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Originally Posted by Bwian

OK....built so far for this faction:

1) Crew ( light armour and an axe when needed )
2) Miners
3) Warrior ( chainmail and an assortment of axes with shields )
4) Heavy Warrior ( breastplate or heavy scale armour, 2 handed weapon )
5) Longbeards. Warriors with...er....longer beards and fancy helmets!
6) Iron Breakers. Stacks of armour!
7) Quarellers
8) Thunderers
9) TrollSlayers

Only thing left to make are the artillery units now.

Unless, of course, someone can come up with something vital that I have overlooked! Hammerers were considered... but they are really only heavy infantry...which I have already made. Should I just modify the heavy infantry to make them hammerers? Would only need to delete the axes in the MS3D model!

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I think you should.

A hammerer is much cooler than a ''heavy warrior'', and as you said, a hammerer is basicly the same, they only use big 2h hammers to smash people with :)

I agree, although I like two-handed axes as much as the next bearded warrior I think it's more appropriate to have Hammerers. They would serve pretty much the same function as Heavy Warriors, but already have a little history in the GW universe. Plus smashing foes with big fecking hammers is quintessentially dwarfish if you ask me.:smash:

You could always salvage the Heavy Warrior as an officer for the warriors.

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Originally Posted by Enthes

aren't Hammerers the dwarfen body guard unit as they dont have cavalry?

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This is how I would consider doing them, but of course, you're the guys in charge!

OK...Hammerers they will become :beam:

I will add a couple of extra hammer variations to replace the axes, and that will make them nice for Hammerers. I will also add a standard bearer variant of the basic design so I can make officer units for the others.

Nice Bwian! So... where are the pictures? :yes: :beam:

The 'heavy warrior' should still be included, as the dwarf warriors get a 2h axe equipment option in the army book.

Basically 2h axes are preferred by some clans fr thier warriors, hammererers are bodyguards only.

I'll do a variant on the basic warrior with 2H weapons. Won't take mych effort to do... I'll use the longer scale/chain option I have done for the Hammerers, and add back the 2h axes. Throw in some helmet variants and some extra arm-armour and gauntlets, and we are done.

Just need to finish off some skins, and then I can screenshot it.


Just now, I am trying to make sense of the extra files that make up the Artillery pieces. That...and why there are 2 very different models for a Dwarf Cannon. One 'traditional' Napoleonic type pattern...and one that looks like it came off a warship.

What kind have you planned for bodyguards? surly you will not use "generals bodyguards"

im sure that they will use the units that specify themselves as generals body guards empire greatswords / knights dwarfs hammerers chaos chosen warriors / knights

Dwarves will have a dwarf unit for Bodyguard purposes. I am going to do a 'Heavy Infantry' unit which will serve as a bodyguard type unit.

For our mod, each faction will have to have it's own unique bodyguard units. Chaos will have Chaos Knights...Tomb Kings will have Tomb-Guards.... and so on. No way would we use stock 'bodyguard' units!

I also need to do some General models for each faction. That will be a challenge!

I hope to see some lords ridding dragons and such :laugh4:

OK...that's the Dwarves just about done!

Just finished making all the low detail lods for the Dwarf faction, and put placeholder stock siege weapons in forthe full set of dwarf siege artillery.

we have:

Crewmen
Miners
Warriors
Heavy Warriors
Hammerers
Iron Breakers
Slayers
Longbeards
Quarrellers
Thunderers

plus a musician and standard bearer

artillery is

Bolt Thrower
Grudge Thrower
Flame Cannon
Organ Gun
Cannon

Phew.

Just need to touch up a few textures ( grey up the longbeards beards, add some colour to the shield textures... that sort of thing ) and then we are done. First faction to be finished!

sounds good.
you should make a thread with a list of all the races units that are complete then evryone can see at a glance whats been done :beam:

That is definitely going to happen as soon as I get the time. I want to get a good set of screenshots up, and have a proper 'Faction' thread for each as a showcase. The thread itself will be locked...since these threads form the discussion threads, and the finsihed faction threads will only get clogged up with comments and chat, which is self defeating really.

I can also mirror those posts over at TWC, to keep the profile up. I also considered setting up a website to showcase the finished factions. Don't know if that would work better, or just take up more of my time that I could be devoting to other stuff!