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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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You keep telling me to worship the Beatles like gods
No I dont. In fact I said you dont even have to like them.
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You keep telling me to worship the Beatles like gods. And yeah, the were good. Yeah, they changed music. But so did so many others. So did the bluesmen. So did Chuck Berry and the rock-and-rollers. So did Hendrix (yes, he damn well did; I don't care who invented his sound, he was the one who made it big, just like the Beatles. ) So did *shudder* Michael Jackson (ask any modern pop artist; he began *shudder* modern pop.) And frankly, so did *shudder* Kurt Cobain.
None of those even come close. I hate to say it but your showing a bit of ignorance here. Your so far off base its ludicrous and you are starting to piss me off, if thats your intention. Just ignore everything I post. Hendrix never made it big Just like the Beatles. Thats the point Nobody even comes close. Their in a league of their own. If you measure success by sales and fame they Blow Hendrix away. They blow everybody away.
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Does it mean we have to respect and adore any of them? No. Because we can find points of contention with all of them.
As compared to the Beatles certainly. Their pikers in comparison.
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And do we have to like any of them? No. Because it's a matter of taste.
You finally got something right. Its like me sitting here and telling everyone Beethoven sucks because I dont like his music.:laugh4:
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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How can you possibly pass judgement on something you have never done? Trust me, marijuana really does make a difference. I used to be obsessed with Dark Side; I thought it couldn't possibly get any better; I even knew it note for note. But when I started smoking, and I first listened to it high; I quite literally thought I was hearing things I had never heard before, like new notes and rhythms and patterns. The difference is really incredible.
I'm not saying it's better (okay, maybe I am...) but I would insist that, at the very least, it makes a world of difference.
Try a hit of acid and you will hear even more. The great thing about both Floyd and the Beatles is they can take you to that high without the benifit of drugs. Heck I get flashbacks listening to Floyd. The whole point of mind altering drugs is to guess what? Alter your mind, hence your perception of reality. Your not hearing anything that wasnt there in the first place. Believe me I doubt anyone here has done more drugs than I. Dont encourage people to do drugs in the front room . Its not nice:laugh4: Leave that to the Beatles :laugh4:
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Believe me I doubt anyone here has done more drugs than I
as I have said in other posts in other veins, you never know who is on the other side of the screen.
The beatles have been given plenty of "due", enough already. How about giving Bob Dylan some due for getting them high in 65 and asking them "what the hell are you writing about, I wanna hold your hand?" and then presto ! the two best beatles albums
Rubber sole and revolver.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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as I have said in other posts in other veins, you never know who is on the other side of the screen.
I dont care who it is. I dont know anybody in real life who has dome more either :laugh4: You get my point however. Im quite fit to have an opinion on this matter :beam:
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The beatles have been given plenty of "due", enough already. How about giving Bob Dylan some due for getting them high in 65 and asking them "what the hell are you writing about, I wanna hold your hand?" and then presto ! the two best beatles albums
Rubber sole and revolver.
No problem Dylan was another of their major influences. They certainly give him credit as do I. But again he didnt have the effect that the Beatles did. They put it all together.
You know all these years it never occurred to me how fit a title Revolver was. I always though of it as going in circles or turning like a record. But in reality it was the start of the music revolution spawned by the Beatles.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
You know all these years it never occurred to me how fit a title Revolver was. I always though of it as going in circles or turning like a record. But in reality it was the start of the music revolution spawned by the Beatles.
Its a great album, for me all the pop crap they put out was just that crap. They spawned a revolution? Funny I thought it was Dylan all those wantabe beatniks were aspiring to be with the culmination of woodstock.
He's the one we should be giving due to, the beatles have gotten thiers and then some.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I dont care who it is. I dont know anybody in real life who has dome more either :laugh4: You get my point however. Im quite fit to have an opinion on this matter :beam:
Keith Richards? Is that you?
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Im afraid you also are not giving the Beatles their due. Sgt Peppers, the White Album and Abbey Road for instance sound as fresh and new today as they ever did. Thats why teens still are discovering the Beatles today. I still cant think of a better band. Music certainly has gone down hill from the 60s and early 70s not up. There are no better groups today. That was the golden age of rock.
They made rock respectable.
In a way, yes, I suppose I'm not giving them their due. It took me an awful long time to actually start listening to the Beatles, and having heard many good bands strongly influenced by them I can imagine the perception was somewhat dulled. But I'd certainly not say there are no better groups today, though nothing has ever been quite as revolutionary in commercialising the rock genre; listen to many a well-known modern rock act, be it Modest Mouse, Oasis, or Blur and there are certainly many influences, so I'd agree with you that the Beatles were fundamental. But no better groups? That is selling the somewhat less mainstream formations short, in which I've heard many a unique and brilliant sound. The best band of all times is in my opinion Godspeed You! Black Emperor, closely followed by Mogwai, both relatively recent formations.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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They spawned a revolution? Funny I thought it was Dylan all those wantabe beatniks were aspiring to be with the culmination of woodstock.
Well then you think wrong. :laugh4: We werent beatniks we were hippies. Your thinking of Maynard G Krebs
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...&ct=image&cd=1
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He's the one we should be giving due to, the beatles have gotten thiers and then some.
Are you kidding me? No one gives Dylan his due? Tell me about it. By the way who was it who showed him that hey Bob you can play rock too. Just plug yourself in? I know many think this ruined him. The point is Dylan nor anyone else had the influence on music that the Bealtes did. Dylan is an incredible song writer, Hendrix maybe the best guitarist ever but nobody put it all together like the Beatles. Not then not now. They are greater than the sum of their parts and thier parts arent that bad.
Now growing up when I did my favorite groups before the Beatles were the 4 Seasons and the Beach Boys. Both these groups not only wrote their own songs but played their own instruments before the Beatles. But they didnt make it popular the Beatles did. My first album was the Beatles vs the 4 Seasons. Its worth 5 grand now. Wish I still had it. I was into Motown as well but thats pretty much all that was around. Everything was 2-3 minutes long and there were no messages in any of it. Just like the early Bealtes. They changed all that. You would never even have heard most of Dylan on the radio if not for the Beatles.
And while were giving people their do lets not leave out the Beach Boys. Pet sounds was one of the most innovative and influential albums ever made even being the main inspiration for Sgt Pepper. Pets Sounds in turn was inspired by Rubber Soul.
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Brian Wilson says that like most of the songwriters and producers of the '60s the Beatles pushed him to do his best work. Wilson told the avclub.com that his inspiration to create the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds was due to feeling direct competition with the "Fab Four," recalling that, "I heard Rubber Soul one night in my house here in L.A., and I was so blown out that I said, 'I have to record an album as good or better than Rubber Soul. If I ever do anything in my life, I'm going to make that good an album.' And so we did."
What the hell does he know ?
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Are you kidding me? No one gives Dylan his due? Tell me about it. By the way who was it who showed him that hey Bob you can play rock too. Just plug yourself in? I know many think this ruined him. The point is Dylan nor anyone else had the influence on music that the Bealtes did. Dylan is an incredible song writer, Hendrix maybe the best guitarist ever but nobody put it all together like the Beatles. Not then not now. They are greater than the sum of their parts and thier parts arent that bad.
but prior to this you conceded Dylans influence on the beatles (at least I think you did, your clever like that :2thumbsup: ). Sorry, but Dylan still pumping out great lyrics and has done just about everything you can, country, blues, pop,folk, the beatles cant touch his range.
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And while were giving people their do lets not leave out the Beach Boys. Pet sounds was one of the most innovative and influential albums ever made even being the main inspiration for Sgt Pepper. Pets Sounds in turn was inspired by Rubber Soul.
I wont dispute Brian Wilson is one of the greats, but he was great before the beatles even got to Rubber soul, his song writing and melodies was eerie and even motown would be hard pressed to match his arriagnments.
For the record I place him neck and neck with the beatles for sheer ability, a 2nd place finish for influence.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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but prior to this you conceded Dylans influence on the beatles (at least I think you did, your clever like that
And I still do. Again many people influenced them
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Sorry, but Dylan still pumping out great lyrics and has done just about everything you can, country, blues, pop,folk, the beatles cant touch his range.
Other than the last sentence your absolutely correct.
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I wont dispute Brian Wilson is one of the greats, but he was great before the beatles even got to Rubber soul, his song writing and melodies was eerie and even motown would be hard pressed to match his arriagnments.
For the record I place him neck and neck with the beatles for sheer ability, a 2nd place finish for influence.
Again we agree. And that was my point. But you must admit that the Beatles were more influential than the Beach Boys. Or anyone else in music history for that matter no matter who their inspiration was.
Me and my friend who lived behind me went battled on forever over which band was better. In the end the Beatles were more versatile IMO.
My point with Dylan is everyone gives him the respect he is due. At least I certainly do. Besides I was big into Peter Paul and Mary. Just as influential as Dylan IMO.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Again we agree. And that was my point. But you must admit that the Beatles were more influential than the Beach Boys.
I'll agree to that.
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Or anyone else in music history for that matter no matter who their inspiration was.
I dont know Elvis, Dylan, Zep come to mind as potentially more influential given thier particular genre's of music.
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Besides I was big into Peter Paul and Mary. Just as influential as Dylan IMO.
:7jester:
"It proves one thing mr hooper, it proves you wealthy college boys dont have the education enough to admit when your wrong" Quint (robert shaw, in jaws).
If you truly believe this Gawain that dosent bolster your credability one bit my friend. Sorry but I'm crying foul on this one.... oye
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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I dont know Elvis, Dylan, Zep come to mind as potentially more influential given thier particular genre's of music.
To their own particular genre's of music yes. Again Zep is nothing more than a blues rip off band with rock roots.
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If you truly believe this Gawain that dosent bolster your credability one bit my friend. Sorry but I'm crying foul on this one.... oye
So you dont think they influenced Dylan?
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What began as individual solo careers in the Village became a "family" through the insight, creativity and foresight of Albert Grossman, their mentor and manager. Grossman at that time was managing Bob Dylan, who two years later in 1963 wrote the "In The Wind" album liner notes - - the album is a classic and Dylan's notes are a poetic tribute to Peter Paul & Mary.
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1962 marked the trio's debut on Warner Brothers Records with "Peter, Paul and Mary" which brought folk music to the vast American public and to the top of the charts. As Billboard Magazine noted, "It became an instant classic. The album was in the Top 10 for ten months, remained in the Top 20 for two years, and did not drop off the Hot 100 album chart until three-and-a-half years after its release." The trio's version of "If I Had A Hammer" was not only a popular single from this LP, it was also embraced as an anthem of the civil rights movement.
By virtue of the trio's popularity, their recordings effectively introduced the work of important new writing talents to the American public. Their renditions of Gordon Lightfoot's "In The Early Morning Rain" and John Denver's "Leaving On A Jet Plane," engineered by the legendary Phil Ramone, helped launch an appreciation and awareness of these "new" artists. By 1970, Peter, Paul & Mary had earned eight gold and five platinum albums.
Hey can you tell me who made Blowing in the wind a hit? Yes they influenced each other. Believe me they did as much if not more to make folk music popular and no one has stuck more to their roots.
I still would rather listen to their beautifu harmonies than that grating voice of Dylans. It shows just what a great musician he is to be able to have all those great songs with a voice like a frog. I hate to say it but In his case the covers are almost always the hits. Dont get me wrong Just like Ringos drumming I prefer Bobs versions. Its just the way they were supposed to be. I mean who else can sing rainy day women like that?
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
To their own particular genre's of music yes. Again Zep is nothing more than a blues rip off band with rock roots.
That's a surprising statement coming from you. You've been extolling, rightly I would say, the Beatles musical merits this whole thread. Yet you've referred to Led Zep as "nothing more than a blues rip off band with rock roots".
Don't you think that's a bit harsh, as well as perhaps unrealistic given the quality of their music and their historical fame?
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
[QUOTE=Gawain of Orkeny]
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To their own particular genre's of music yes. Again Zep is nothing more than a blues rip off band with rock roots.
Well maybe but the fact they ripped off some blues dosent speak to thier influence. Pick a hair band from the 70's and 80's and if they arent a carbon copy of Led Zep, then perhaps it was Sabbath, anyway you slice it,Zep influence on right up there with the best of them.
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So you dont think they influenced Dylan?
I didnt say they didnt influence him, I am saying they arent as big an influence (not by a long shot) as Dylan, are you?
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Hey can you tell me who made Blowing in the wind a hit?
Peter paul and mary did, they released it a few months before Dylan, but he wrote the lyrics, so clearly its his influence on them.
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I still would rather listen to their beautifu harmonies than that grating voice of Dylans. It shows just what a great musician he is to be able to have all those great songs with a voice like a frog. I hate to say it but In his case the covers are almost always the hits. Dont get me wrong Just like Ringos drumming I prefer Bobs versions. Its just the way they were supposed to be. I mean who else can sing rainy day women like that?
Dylans voice sucks, but it works on just about all his songs, why? Because the lyrics are superior, and you, me, the wall, and every muscian since 65 knows it.
If I recall correctly even the sex pistols cite dylan as an influence, I have to look it up though.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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That's a surprising statement coming from you. You've been extolling, rightly I would say, the Beatles musical merits this whole thread. Yet you've referred to Led Zep as "nothing more than a blues rip off band with rock roots".
Don't you think that's a bit harsh, as well as perhaps unrealistic given the quality of their music and their historical fame?
No its the truth .Their one of the most over rated bands of all time. Most of their hits are ripoffs where they didnt even credit the original artists. Give me Cream any day. And again it was the Who , who started this not Zep.
Remember earlier when I said to someone were a rock generation apart? Well thats what Zep and the Beatles are. I still can remember me and my friends making fun of the 'kids" who thought Zep was something new that they had discovered. We thought they were nuts. I appreciate them much nore today than I did back then. The first two albums and most of the third however looking back are outstanding. Even if they are rip offs. Im not denying they are very talented.
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anyway you slice it,Zep influence on right up there with the best of them.
Not in your wildest dreams. They were original in the least so any copy of them is copying someone else and it wasnt Sabbath either . Again it was the Who.
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I didnt say they didnt influence him, I am saying they arent as big an influence (not by a long shot) as Dylan, are you?
No I dont. Im trying to illustrate that comparing Dylan to the Beatles is like comparing Peter Paul and Mary to Dylan.
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Peter paul and mary did, they released it a few months before Dylan, but he wrote the lyrics, so clearly its his influence on them
They are the ones who opened the door for folk in pop music is my point.
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Dylans voice sucks, but it works on just about all his songs, why? Because the lyrics are superior, and you, me, the wall, and every muscian since 65 knows it.
And I totally agree I even said so. No one writes better songs.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
No its the truth .Their one of the most over rated bands of all time. Most of their hits are ripoffs where they didnt even credit the original artists. Give me Cream any day. And again it was the Who , who started this not Zep.
Oh, be nice. I'm certainly not denying that The Who are great, a lot of the bands of that time were great, including Cream. But that does not mean Led Zep is not.
I think this business about "rip off" is a bit much. Everyone influences everyone else. It's the natural progression of art (and warfare for that matter, as Machiavelli wrote that all great men are influenced and follow the lessons of other great men). If only true originality is great, then we would be limited to very, very few musicians. We could carry it to extremes and say everyone after Robert Johnson sucked because they all ripped him off.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
you can tell those overrated 60´s hacks that I still don´t care!
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Beirut
Everyone influences everyone else. It's the natural progression of art
^^Uuuu, Look everybody. Truth and wisdom there.^^
edit: If we're discussing the seething cauldron of 60's popular music, yeah, we gotta give props to John, Paul, George, and Ringo. They were great, but they weren't Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
Once they stopped playing live In My Humble Opinion (which I understood, as they couldn't hear themselves over the din of 13-year old girlie-girl screams) they lost their edge. Sgt Pepper was their peak, I think. All after was sell-records pop sludge. That money influence, + drugs = the death knell of rock-'n-roll, as a stand-alone art form, IMHO.
Later stuff, by Floyd or Zep or whoever - while notable and entertaining, has been an attempt to resusitate, if not resurrect, the dead corpus that rocNroll had become by 1972; a victim of it's own popularity and hyberbole, and the attendant riches heaped upon the unsuspecting artists.
The holy ghost of rock and roll has been haunting the hallways of radio stations, television outlets, and now internet sites, desperately seeking the new next step in its evolution, without success. Punk failed. 'Country' has become smarmy. Jazz is distracted by its own irrelevant intracacies. Rap peaked with RunDMC, and is now a parody of itself. 'World music' stopped being about new sounds, and started being about political agendas. Electronica has no soul.
I conclude: we need a new music-religion. Some sound we can all sink our teeth into, understand at both a primeval level and an intellectual one. Something that borrows from the past without shame, expresses the present, and gives hope for the future.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Oh, be nice. I'm certainly not denying that The Who are great, a lot of the bands of that time were great, including Cream. But that does not mean Led Zep is not.
Your missing the point Zep was not of their time. They came later.
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I think this business about "rip off" is a bit much. Everyone influences everyone else. It's the natural progression of art (and warfare for that matter, as Machiavelli wrote that all great men are influenced and follow the lessons of other great men).
No when I say rip offs thats exactly what I mean. They could at least give the original artist who wrote and perfomed it credit.
I think I posted this before
Now back by popular demand! A list of some of the songs Zep stole from other artists:
* "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."
* "Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.
* "Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).
* "Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."
* "Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."
* "Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).
* "Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
* "How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."
* "In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).
* "The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.
* "Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
* "Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.
* "Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.
* "Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.
* "White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."
* "Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."
Thats a lot more than "being influenced by them" Its exactly what early white rock and rollers did with back music back in the 50s and 60s.
And those are only the ones they ripped off. It does not include the ones they actually gave credit on. They did nothing new. What they did was perfect their sound.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
What would anyone with your name know about drums?
Wow, I really don't appreciate the personal attack and I find it rather sad that you resorted to that to refute my claim that Ringo's drumming is average. Not to mention the fact you took it out of context, because I did say he's good/decent and underrated as a musician.
I'm not denying the fact The Beatles were/are good and influencial. They are a great bunch of musicians and songwriters. But when it comes to drumming Ringo is not the best drummer ever and Harrison/Lennon/McCartney are not the best guitarists ever.
John Henry Bonham
Ginger Baker
Mitch Mitchell & Here.
These are a few, and very cliche, I'll show you some more obscure ones if you like, because when it comes to drums I know what I'm talking about.
All music is a rip-off of something done before, Led Zeppelin did do that much too often I know that. However, that still doesn't mean your not a great musician on whatever instrument you play, you can't say that Bonzo is a bad drummer or Paul-Jones is a rubbish bassist, because if you do then you are simply being foolish.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
All you need is love. Da-da-da-da-da -da... :daisy:
(Especially in this thread. Let's all be nice, please.)
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Wow, I really don't appreciate the personal attack and I find it rather sad that you resorted to that to refute my claim that Ringo's drumming is average. Not to mention the fact you took it out of context, because I did say he's good/decent and underrated as a musician.
I find it very sad that you take offense at an obvious joke using your name as a pun. I took no offense at all from your post. Everyone has their own tastes and no ones is better than anyone elses. And of course I took it out of contest I was joking. I apologise if you think I meant it.
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But when it comes to drumming Ringo is not the best drummer ever and Harrison/Lennon/McCartney are not the best guitarists ever.
Not once in this thread with all the praise Ive heaped on the Beatles have I made any such claim, I said the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Do you understand that concept?
I posted things like this
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"He had a style that was simple and basicand it fitted the style and the time. He was a low-profile drummer which was absolutely right for The Beatles. He was an extremely good accompanist. ... He had great empathy with what The Beatles were doing. He was very modest in his approach to drumming." --
I said he was perfect for the Beatles, I never claimed he was the best drummer ever or even better than anyone. Your turn to apologise.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
, I said the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Do you understand that concept?
As much as I enjoy your discussion, I must say that the whole cannot be greater than the sum of the parts. The parts make the whole or the whole consists of the parts. What you mean is understandable but the wording is unsound.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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I must say that the whole cannot be greater than the sum of the parts.
It most certainly can. The Beatles are an illustration of just that. Alone they were very good but together they were great. This is a very old saying.
Heres a few examples
A house is worth more than the value of the individual pieces of wood, sheet rock, drywall, wiring, and other components that it consists of.
A Rembrandt painting is worth far more than the canvas and paint that were combined to make it.
Yes mathamaticly speaking its impossible. But were not talking math here are we?
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
It most certainly can. The Beatles are an illustration of just that. Alone they were very good but together they were great. This is a very old saying.
Heres a few examples
A house is worth more than the value of the individual pieces of wood, sheet rock, drywall, wiring, and other components that it consists of.
A Rembrandt painting is worth far more than the canvas and paint that were combined to make it.
Yes mathamaticly speaking its impossible. But were not talking math here are we?
:logic:
I enjoy Bijo's posts, he reminds me of a book I read on Zen from Daisetz Teitaro Suzuki (Had to look his name up, I only knew the initals DT), but Gawain gives very good examples of how the whole is greater then the parts.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
Bijo, the whole can be greater than the sum of its parts, at least as far as the human equation goes. Together, John, Paul, George and Ringo (why is Ringo always last?), created something bigger and better than their individual talents would suggest. You see the same thing in sports. Teams loaded with great individual talent (all-stars caliber) fail to win because team chemistry isn't right. Or a team with average players winning it all because they learned to play well together, elevating their team play to something beyond their individual talents. The Beatles were the same way, as Gawain suggests.
As for the point that others did things before the Beatles did, they may have. But the Beatles took those things and brought them to the masses. Fringe thinking or concepts suddenly became mainstream thanks(?) to the Beatles.
You may not like the Beatles as a group or individually, but I think they do deserve their dues.
Edit: Do'h, Gawain beat me to it.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
It most certainly can. The Beatles are an illustration of just that. Alone they were very good but together they were great.
It was not what you stated before it. What you stated is the following:
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the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
The parts make the whole; the whole consists of the parts. It is undeniable. What you mean is value, beneficial effects of the whole.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
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The parts make the whole; the whole consists of the parts. It is undeniable. What you mean is value, beneficial effects of the whole.
What I said is what I meant. If you want to get semantical over it be my guest.
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Re: Give the Beatles their due
If there were no semantics, would we be even discussing matters using semantics? It is important.
But don't let that get in the way of your main train of thought regarding giving the Beatles their due. I truthfully hope you are able to convince many more youngsters to give them their due :)
