Schiltrom

he got lost.

and the napoleon did in fact use divide and conquer as you have said and i never contended against. this is why he sent a detachment to keep on the prussians heels after he defeated them after isolating them from the allied contingent.

and evidence in my opinion that he got lost is that the prussians regrouped. if he had remained hard on their heels this would not have happened.

note lost being he did not follow on the prussians as had been planned and ended up off track to the south of them following what he thought was the prussian main body.

grouchy did in fact finally realize his mistake but by then the prussians had bypassed him.

and just hours before the battle ended is a shocker. also i said that the prussians got within a few miles before they were spotted which would still coincide with your record of the battle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mad cat mech

note lost being he did not follow on the prussians as had been planned and ended up off track to the south of them following what he thought was the prussian main body.

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Apologies...I thought you meant literally Lost, as in he took the wrong road and didn't know where he was.

Nevertheless, I think the traditional finger-pointing at Grouchy by most school-boy history books is a little misleading and unfair. If one actually looks at the facts its clear that if anyone is to blame for the delay in the pursuit of the Prussians it was Napoleon. The final shots of the battle of Ligny were fired at between 8pm and 8:30pm on the evening of the 16th June, and the last Prussian troops had quit the field of battle by about 2am.

Napoleon actually issued no orders to pursue the Prussians until noon on the 17th, the net result being that the Prussians were given 10 to 14 hours of freedom to escape the battle of Ligny and regroup before Grouchy was even given the task of pursuing them.

Not only that but during this period the French had effectively lost track of the entire Prussian army other than Theilmanns III Corps and its deserters and so Grouchy was actually ordered to march towards Namur, effectively in the wrong direction.

That afternoon, Excelman reported that he had followed the Prussians he saw on the banks of the river Orneau earlier and that the Prussian army was now massing at Gembloux. Grouchy immediately directed his troops in this direction and Vandamme's Corps arrived at the Gembloux at around 7pm. However, Theilmanns III Corps had marched 5 hours earlier having successfully regrouped in the town and they were already marching north towards Wavre together with Bulow's IV Corps.

Excelman had already noticed that they had gone and was conducting a wide search of the roads and villages north of Gembloux to try and find them again. He found them moving north through the villages to the right of the Gembloux to Wavre road and after watching them for an hour reported back to Grouchy in Gembloux who immediately sent an update report to Napoleon. This is the first report that suggests the objective of the Prussian retreat might be Wavre, though it still clings to the idea that a substantial portion of the Prussian army was still retreating on Leige and Namur.

By now it was dark and Grouchys Corps spent the night in and around Gembloux before marching north towards Wavre at 4am the next morning.

So, basically as I see it Napoleon wasted 14 hours after the battle of Ligny during which the French could have been pursuing the Prussians, and in doing so lost at least half the Prussian army. Grouchy assumed responsibility for the pursuit at about noon on the 17th and within 2 hours had correctly located Thielmans Corps at Gembloux and by nighfall had correctly concluded that the Prussians were actually moving North towards Wavre, and yet Grouchy seems to get the full blame for the escape of the Prussian Army.

Quite unfairly in my opinon.

PS: If anyone has access to a decent historical map of the area around Gembloux I would like some help. Excelman mentions sighting Prussian troops on the left bank of the Orneau river, with one battalion stationed on the right bank before Basse Baudecet (which I think must have been a farm). However, I cannot find it on my maps and I want to know if it is on the Sombreffe/Leige or the Sombreffe/Namur Road.