Re: Interesting fact about today's military parade in Warsaw
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Originally Posted by cegorach
Ohh please. Don't use current examples it is like talking about inferiority of feudal infantry tactics compared to Israeli armoured units in the 1960s...
Defeated true, but the 'mopping up' lasted another 2 weeks. Thinking this way the French campaign was over after Dunkirk was reached.
Besides that has nothing to do with this topic just like the modern example
The modern example has a lot to do with what happened. I'm not talking tactics, I'm talking logistics.
If it takes 4 months of prep for the US and allies in the 90's to invade a much smaller nation, then the logistical demand for France and UK to invade Germany in WWII would have been both higher in volume (so taking longer) and the lift rate per unit would have been slower (so taking longer again), so if it took 4 months for the coalition, then 50 years before hand it would have taken significantly longer.
The phony war happened because
a) They still believed despite everything to the contrary that Germany would back down :wall:
b) That they needed far more resources before they attacked (and guess what they got there butts handed to them despite having the 'advantage' of defending their nations)... the Brits and France were stalling for as long as possible (the colonies had a long way to go to help supply extra manpower), so that they would have a fighting chance... as it was France was defeated and UK had an unarmed army after Germany fought them.
So if they lost a defensive engagement how were they supposed to win an offensive one earlier with less prep time?
Re: Interesting fact about today's military parade in Warsaw
I want to scream...
Great a series of posts which have nothing to do with my earlier posts.
I will repeat what I said a thousand times before.
Britain promised to bomb Germany as soon as Poland is attacked. Didn't do so except some night time leaflet delivery. The question is if they were not able to do so they shouldn't promise that.
France promised they will start an all out offensive in time of 2 weeks from the beginning of the fighting.
BOTH countries repeated their promises a dozen of times.
France repeated these promises a long time later AFTER they decided not to lauch an attack - decision was made in May 1939 - promises were delivered several times after that time.
France OPENLY LIED that their soldiers are not only PREPARING an attack, but THAT IT has ALREADY STARTED and that their soldiers are ENGAGED in fighting and that Germans are redeploying a number of divisions from Poland to the West at the very SAME TIME they retreated from Germany withouth engaging the enemy and so on, etc,
It was ALL AFFECTING the defensive plan of Poland, it was all affecting the orders and the way Polish army fought during that war because without such LIES the order to evacuate to Romania and Hungary would be GIVEN earlier - this way Polish forces in the West would be considerably bigger than it really happened.
Yes I am talking about THIS, not something you think I said, assume I said or believe I said. So please answer those questions, discuss that not EVERYTHING except this and with huge amount of sheer ignorance and incompetent assumptions about numerous factors.
If it goes this way I will start to believe there is NOONE here who knows anything about that part of the war - all this time I have examples from 1940, 1944, 19(bloody)90 all directed to something which doesn't need a discussion.:smash: :smash:
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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
So, the Polish based their entire plan on hoping the French will help - attacking a foe with a defensive army. That the French et al did nothing for the Cheks didn't phase them - and they even had the sense to build defences.
NO they didn't plan on HOPES, but on REPEATED PROMISES and reassurances to launch an offenseve. These promises were repeated even when the war was already started, were repeated when French army STARTED RETREATING from Germany - were REPEATED even when French high command KNEW that they would NOT DO ANYTHING.
That is what is important here.
So what the hell are you talking about ???
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Did Poland do everything they could?
Where were the polish tanks? Why didn't they purchase or build more? Where was the Polish army and airforce? Why didn't they have greater ones?
Where were the Polish defence lines: miles of tank traps, mines, bunkers? The threat is there - spend all your money on weaponry to prepare for the fight - begin a war economy!
And what do you thing we did - went to Ibiza ???
You are aware that about 40 % of the entire budget at that time went for military needs ? Do think it should be more ? And how ?
The economy wouldn't handle that, besides a number of weponry was actually bought after public actions i.e. collected thanks to generous society.
In 1939 Poland had probably 7th*** strongest army in the world - mostly equipped with weaponry produced in Poland.
About weponry bought before the war - it includes 120 french MS fighters, some 50 British light bombers, about 20 Hurricanes, 1 Spitfire (for testing), 50 R-35 French tanks, a number of other weaponry - and the list could be longer and longer.
Most of this weponry wasn't delivered quickly enough and for example the airplnes were used by Polish squadrons in 1940 - not all of it, because a part was confiscated by the French...
All this equipment was bought because polish industry couldn't cope with the demand for weaponry - I don't know how can you even openly claim things you are saying - personally I talk only about something I have SOME idea about....
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When Britain was facing invasion we decided to build defences - even though there's a 20 mile sea to cross and the navy and airforce would maul transport vessels. The polish had to all intents and purposes no defences, an unrealistic belief in their allies and yes unsurprisingly they were crushed.
No defences... I salute you for this groudbreaking discovery...
But... wait... I guess these bunkers must be an elaborate forgery to confuse Mr. Rory_20_uk the ultimate living encyclopedia of the campaign in 1939...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...ska_G%C3%B3rka
Please READ ANYTHING, becuase it is not my desire to write a book here.:wall:
What happened to this forum - are all military history enthusiasts moving to TWC these days ??
Papewaio
Quote:
The phony war happened because
a) They still believed despite everything to the contrary that Germany would back down
b) That they needed far more resources before they attacked (and guess what they got there butts handed to them despite having the 'advantage' of defending their nations)... the Brits and France were stalling for as long as possible (the colonies had a long way to go to help supply extra manpower), so that they would have a fighting chance... as it was France was defeated and UK had an unarmed army after Germany fought them.
So if they lost a defensive engagement how were they supposed to win an offensive one earlier with less prep time?
Jesus H Christ... Read a THING I WROTE BEFORE OK ?:wall:
*** or 8th if we count the British Commonwealth to the UK - Germany, Soviet Union, France, Japan, Britain (with the Commonwealth), the USA, Italy - I can't say for Brasil, Argentina and some other states unfortunatelly, but one of more important features here would be the level of independence in equipping your own army and Poland achived that to very high degree with the exception of the navy which only from 1941 would start receiving larger warships build in Poland.
Overall that would be a major minor army of the world.
Re: Interesting fact about today's military parade in Warsaw
OK, this has gotten out of hand. Temporarily closed, pending staff discussion.
