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I mean marginalized, so that they don't have any real influence in this(and many other european countries) any more ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Corleone
And half my family are mad, blood-hungry and hellbent fire and brimstone christians, just so you know ~;)
And I am the grandson of the former leader of Buskerud's Christian Peoples Party...
OK nav , you done quite well on your piss take Christian fundamentalist stance .Quote:
The above quoted phrase is but one of endless examples of sneaky media bias towards a secular humanist agenda.
Can you offer anything much in the piss take Islamic fundamentalist stance ?
No way?Quote:
Originally Posted by currywurry
so england ceased to exist once they united with scotland and N ireland?
Dont be stupid. You knew thatQuote:
Originally Posted by K COSSACK
So true it hurts. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
Ah, yes -- that's why each of them has a different national language. That's also why each of them has their systems of law completely seperate, inviolate and unique. That's also why they have national symbols, history and identities.Quote:
I know i'm dragging away from the original subject here, but it really gets on my nerves this whole 'scotland, wales and england' thing. STOP BEING NATIONALISTS IDIOTS AND JUST BE UNITED AS YOU HAVE BEEN FOR THE LAST 300 YEARS. The country functioned fine until you all started thinking about countries of olde that ceased to exist a long time ago.
What you describe as "British" is nothing but a construct devised three hundred years ago and become English by virtue of England's massive demographic advantage in this union. This is not said to denigrate the United Kingdom -- this is simply how it is. The Union may not have been concieved exclusively by Englishmen, nor was it (completely) created by them, but it was inevitable that they would come to dominate it in almost every concievable way. What is happening now is simply a reverse of that process.
Sorry, mods, for further derailing this. I will stop if you wish it so.
Read my post but yes, sort of. England and Wales share a church, schooling system and legal system. Scotland maintained it's own of each.Quote:
Originally Posted by K COSSACK
With the acts of political union England ceased to exist as a political entity distinct within the British Isles. With the acts of devolution Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland came back into existance as semi-autonomous political entities but there is still no political entity that is England.
It is a great political injustice which if it isn't eventually remedied will likely cause the English to initiate the breakup of the Union. I think the Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and others will find themselves swamped in a tide of Anglo-Saxon rage if that happens.
Well, let's be honest here. The Union Parliament is the English one. It's even held in the same place
nm.
Not so. Not at all, excepting the location.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba Ga'on
There is no "English" parliment - the Scotish and Welsh MP's sit and vote in Westminster on issues that effect the UK and then their own parliments do away with those said issues...
a perfect example is University loans - Westminster abolished grants and replaced them with a loan - the scotish parliment overruled this so Scotish students still get grants and dont have to pay anything back.
Westminster is "shared" and until England gets a voice like scotland and wales theres going to be some significant sabre rattling come next election
on topic - it doesnt suprise me that many 2nd and 3rd generation imigrants are being taken in by thses radicals - their parents know life in the UK is better hence why they moved in the first place, their children wont and will have lived life on the bottom food wrung in the UK - we arnt overtly racist anymore but the feeling is still there - hence why the newspapers are able to fire everyone up with imigration one liners.
Yeah, anything else you want to point out of what I should know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Ow you got me there me so pwned. Ah well all is still fine huh, peaceful people, peaceful religion, metro didn't explode for a while and most brits still have heads attached to their necks and most women aren't gangbanged and stoned to death afterwards. Maybe tomorow, but let's celebrate cultural diversity in the meantime no? I love kebab :balloon2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
On the subject of the union there is a deep vein of annoyance in England over tuition fees and foundation hospitals being passed by Scottish MPs which is pretty much the reaction the so called ''nationalists'' want.
They, like these Muslim fundamentalists we so often hear about, are trying to shape the nation to their own wishes against the will of the majority, although it is through less violent means i find it equally disgusting. Like many people in Britain i am not solely English but have Scottish, Welsh and Irish blood, and i am fed up with nationalists trying to punish me for my supposed ''English'' ancestors crimes against their ''country'' That is where i believe this nationalist zeal comes from, an understanding of history almost solely from sources such as Brave heart...
Back on topic i believe that what we need in Britain is clear moderate leadership from Islam, at the moment we hear all about the extremist clerics and such. If a noble religion that prohibits violence against the unarmed or unwilling, and treats other followers of god with respect cannot find a leader to show the world (and indeed their own communities in some cases) this, then it has truly gone astray...
If such a person exists we would have found him by now. It is what it is, no such thing as a moderate islam. Only moderate muslims.
Fragony , do you check under the bed every night just to make sure that the muslims aren't gonna get ya in your sleep ?
Funny that , I just read an article where one of the nuttier leaders in Britain has changed his mind over the nuttier aspects that he used to support .Old news of course but a British paper did manage to report it this morning a month after the story came out .Quote:
Back on topic i believe that what we need in Britain is clear moderate leadership from Islam, at the moment we hear all about the extremist clerics and such. If a noble religion that prohibits violence against the unarmed or unwilling, and treats other followers of god with respect cannot find a leader to show the world (and indeed their own communities in some cases) this, then it has truly gone astray...
Redicule me all you want tribes, reality has a way of catching up. It is what it is.
That's hard to deny, but what exactly is it? :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
I hope Tribes is not denying that radical muslims exist, otherwise I'd claim the crusades were performed by agnostics. :dizzy2:
snipQuote:
Originally Posted by Husar
edit, that wasn't really necesary.
edit, don't know if you heard of him, a non-dhimmi politician called Wilders compared the Quran to Mein Kampf and wants to ban it (and he calls himselve rightwing, banning books gah), now I am against a ban but the comparison is valid.
Edit by Ser Clegane: no religion bashing if this thread is supposed to stay open
Weren't we talking about reality? Well, Islam can be dangerous but then there are people who call themselves chrisitans and walk around slaughtering others. Maybe not so much in Europe, but elsewhere in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
The old testament also contains genocides as in "kill them all, leave nothing alive" and God even punishes king Saul for not doing so. Yet noone called for it to be banned because it promotes violence. Though then again, there is no new quran that promotes love that I'm aware of.:sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
The problem is that you can find followers for almost every radical idea, you can even find people who want you to eat them alive.:2thumbsup:
There are creepy parts in it, but that is god saying 'look what I have done!' The Quran has an to-do list, bible doesn't. That is a major difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
You do know that the Quran includes the gospel, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
No, though I knew Jesus is a muslim prophet. And it's sort of useless since Muhammed's message seems to trump that of Jesus, I have yet to see a muslim quote Jesus anywhere. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
OK Frag , why do you really want to go out of your way to show that you don't know either set of scripture ?Quote:
The Quran has an to-do list, bible doesn't.
Islam comes in many flavours , just like christianity .Quote:
no such thing as a moderate islam. Only moderate muslims.
If there are dozens of different interpretations of the scriptures in their original lnguage , and hundreds of different interpretations of the translated scriptures then how on earth can you say that there is only the extremist version and no moderate version .
Make sure you check under the bed tonight Frag , Islam is your own personal bogeyman and it really is gonna get ya:scared:
Jesus is a muslim prophet?!?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Mohamed trumps trumps jesus' message?!?!?!?
Wacky, islam didnt even start yet, and how does mohameds message beats jesus?
Jesus preaches peace and love while mohammed has passages in the quran about fighting the infidel, now to the common man that would seem weird for a religion to preach, by todays common perception of religion.
:dizzy2:
Perhaps you should educate yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by K COSSACK
Just like Moses is identified as part of the Christian message.Quote:
Originally Posted by K COSSACK
Just like Jesus trumps the Old Testament message, muslims believe that Mohammad trumps that of the New Testament.Quote:
Originally Posted by K COSSACK
Like software, updates generally come after the original source.Quote:
Originally Posted by K COSSACK
OT -> NT-> Koran
Whats the matter cant put a decent argument up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slyspy
ah, thx for clearing that upQuote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
This is kind of what i am getting at, the idea of this appauls me and there are moderate christians that come out and say that this is wrong, and thankfully most people know that such actions are unchristian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
I know there are muslims that feel the same about extremists breaking the rules of their own religion.
There realy is no getting away from it for them, Islam is a religion of rules and law, this isn't a bad thing. But by disregarding those rules extremists threaten Islam...
Yes and this is the reason why i cannot see the old testament as direct scripture, and i guess the Gospels (but not the rest of the new testament) would ''trump'' the old testament to a certain extent. I think that quite a bit of the old testament is a biased history and i think that when many events in it are attributed to god its more of a assumption that god did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
The real point i am getting at is that there are some ''peaceful'' messages in the quran, such as those that list jews and christians as fellow believers.
I welcome any more knoledgeable on the quran to correct me if i am wrong but from my knowedge of it:
When the term infidel is mentioned it is a referance to the pagans that muhhammed fought and explicitly not Christians or Jews who muhhammed had a lot of respect for.
There are rules of war where as i remmeber they are not permmitted to fight women, children, the old the sick or the unwilling.
Now i have no illusions about Islam but i think these areas need to be considered when talking about it. Extremists are threatening this message and i would realy expect moderates to speak up and defend it but you don't hear about it.
That, as i see it, is the problem...
Jesus is one of Islams many prophets, Muhammed has a special status simply because he is the last one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
They have most of the same stuff as both testaments, plus some new stuff from Muhammed.
And yes, the Quran does preach love, for those who think otherwise.
Oh, and shiites(I think it is, don't qoute me on that) are still waiting for some Imam/prophet(can't remember that either, but like the jews' messiah) to appear, which will only happen once there are no wars in the world. No, that goes for all wars, Jihad's and muslim-started wars included.