Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
I won't even try to compare Paradox games with RTW for two reasons :
1/ they are completely different games
2/ i never played RTW :laugh4:
I'm more a strategy player than a tactical one.
On the debate about which is the best game made by Paradox... i'll never hesitate : Crusader Kings. It needs a lot of improvement, but in terms of historical experience, it's a must-have.
On the debate of EU2 versus EU3... one can't compare. I'd say that a lot who prefer EU2 miss, in EU3, the historical events. Beyond that, if it's true the 3D map is not as eye candy as Civ IV... i can't play EU2 anymore, due to the depth of EU3. And the game is even greater with the Napoleon's Ambitions expansion.
As for my coming in your forum... i should be joining the EB team for EU:Rome, as i've been working on a map mod for EU3:NA. It should be rather quick (and i stress on the "rather") to make a new map that fits the ambitions of EB.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Welcome Gigau :balloon2:. You may want to try EB just to know what you're trying to recreate, if nothing else :beam:.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by bovi
Welcome Gigau :balloon2:. You may want to try EB just to know what you're trying to recreate, if nothing else :beam:.
Thanks a lot :2thumbsup:
I shall whenever i get to buy RTW... i think my wife is going to yell... she already thinks i spend too much with Paradox games :laugh4:
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
I think you can find it in a bargain bin somewhere, you could probably write it off as gasoline and pray she doesn't notice the difference from the Paradox games :laugh4:.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigau
I won't even try to compare Paradox games with RTW for two reasons :
1/ they are completely different games
2/ i never played RTW :laugh4:
I'm more a strategy player than a tactical one.
On the debate about which is the best game made by Paradox... i'll never hesitate : Crusader Kings. It needs a lot of improvement, but in terms of historical experience, it's a must-have.
I would have to be inclined to agree here. I've gleaned countless hours of entertainment out of the Paradox games over the past 5 years or so, but Crusader Kings really tops them all. Its the sort of game that would likely appeal to the same people who are really motivated by 'roleplaying' individual character development in EB.
I'm posting this mainly to mention that they also just released (for digital download only) the first official CK expansion in three years. I realize that the time period may not appeal to many fans of EB, but figured it wouldn't be grossly inappropriate to mention the CK expansion here, since this is more or a less a Paradox thread anyway. And the game really is par excellence. :2thumbsup:
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celt
Yeah.. I wonder if the Goidils will be playable?
I doubt it ....unless they extend gameplay to the 3rd C AD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaknafien
Some of us from EB have offered to help Paradox with research and development, we will see how they respond, they're generally pretty open to suggestions...
Yup, were happy for me to help out doing the research for Australia in HOI
my2bob
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSYCHO V
Yup, were happy for me to help out doing the research for Australia in HOI
my2bob
My compliments, I quite enjoyed playing as the Aussies - a very good representation.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
EU3 modded with Magna Mundi Gold is decent but vanilla isn't so great IMO. Basically - it's a multiplayer game that you can play singleplayer but the AI has been tweaked in anticipation of multiple human opponents making it EU:Total War in many ways without the nifty battle map (and damn un-historical for the time period.)
Glad to see them making a game for that era but I'm guessing I'll be waiting for the mods to get it. Personally, I don't like the direction they are taking their new games but that's just me.
Of their titles I probably spent the most time on CK and EU2. Both good games but not near as fun as EB or even vanilla RTW from a pure playability standpoint. Very good given the size of the developer and the niche they service though.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
My favorite paradox game is Victoria, but it really is very hardcore. Micromanagement drove me crazy in the beginning, but once I got used to it, I loved the realistic representation of countries and the detail of POPs. This is the reason why I don't like EU3 too much. It just seems a little simplistic at times. For example, an African province with 10,000 native POPs. Send one colonist there and all of a sudden, revolt risk disappears and the culture changes from African to your own country's culture. Combat in EU3 also seems more simplistic than Victoria...
I guess my favorite thing about Victoria (with the VIP mod) and EB is that there's a huge amount of details put into the game. To me it is much easier to get immersed into a game when the concepts are more realistic and there is more historical background to what happens in the game.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
The alpha shot is pretty old now, heard about it months ago. Big fan to the series and i just waited for this era to be made, cant wait to play as macedon and take on the challange once again of empire building and survival. I allways imagend the series whit a battlemap mutch like in RTW, woud be great but it relly woud take away some of the core of the series gameplay. Imagen your king/emperor whit no military skill points and a losy army bust a superior army on the battle map just becuse we know the flaws the AI can make and howe they react, its not realistic, insted you have to plan out logic, chose generals and make decisions overall.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
I pretty much felt Paradox lost their way with EU3. I loved all their games up to EU3 but the change in direction they took just turned me right off. Which isn't to say it's necessarily a bad game, but it doesn't come close to EU2 IMO.
Every country plays the same is pretty much the main issue I have. In the interest of creating a sandbox of history they removed all the flavour that makes history interesting.
The 3d engine is also slow as hell while simultaneously being plain ugly compared to EU2's seven years older 2d graphics. And then there's the EU:Rome screenshots. Here with a handy comparison to Rome:TW.
http://sjennings.files.wordpress.com..._screen002.jpg
http://sjennings.files.wordpress.com...0/public_3.jpg
That said, I hope they make a great game. Paradox used to be one of my favourite developers, I hope they can get back to making games I'll love. I just won't be preordering the CE of Rome like I did with EU3.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by matte89
The alpha shot is pretty old now, heard about it months ago. Big fan to the series and i just waited for this era to be made, cant wait to play as macedon and take on the challange once again of empire building and survival. I allways imagend the series whit a battlemap mutch like in RTW, woud be great but it relly woud take away some of the core of the series gameplay. Imagen your king/emperor whit no military skill points and a losy army bust a superior army on the battle map just becuse we know the flaws the AI can make and howe they react, its not realistic, insted you have to plan out logic, chose generals and make decisions overall.
Basing battles on die rolls of between 0-9 isn't exactly what I would call realistic either. Relatively easy to exploit (unless they fix the ability to leave combat at any time) and if you plan on a military career merely conduct battles in a manner to generate generals that will mod the roll by 5-6 (or wait till the AI hits you with said experienced generals since they can war constantly with no cost to the AI country.)
It's one of the reasons I prefer the modded version with historical events and quite a few changes to how the game plays. It's more suited to a RP style when modded in that way and quite fun but vanilla has quite a few issues including:
Total war: Want to take that Carribean Island from Spain? Make sure you take half their country and their capitol - destroy all their armies around the world because if the AI percieves it can still fight - it won't give you anything. Doesn't matter if the troops are in Lower Siberia and have no realistic way of getting to the island to take it back.
Unrealistic happiness management: Ming - being a large country - will be pushing into the back end of Europe in nearly every game as the AI. This is facilitated by the fact that religion, culture, governmental happiness, etc. have no real impact on country stability (try keeping 3-4 separate religions happy in EU2 without doing some major slider adjustment and management. Guess they figured that was too much work.) It also means - as the player - you can equally keep your Christian and Muslim populations fully satisfied and happy (not just tolerated mind you...but FULLY satisfied.)
Anyone can colonise: So expect to see Venice and the Teutonic order setting up in North America (or any other small country with a border to an ocean.)
Easily duped natives: As the player when playing single player unless you roleplay (which has the drawbacks of being at the mercy of my first point) your first move is to take over the Mexican natives. Successful conversion to your religion converts them to your own culture as well making them extremely lucrative one time rewards (quite a few gold / high trade value provinces.)
Some of these drawbacks are fixed with mods (I can only play it with Magna Mundi personally anymore) but some are like RTW such as the Warscore or the abstract combat rolls (0-9) which really can't be modded making combat problematic (though at least MM mod limits colonization as much as possible for historically non-colonizing nations.)
All in all - if you enjoy grand strategy games and some micromanagement (I do personally) I'd recommend it even with the problems though I'd also recommend modding with Magna Mundi if you like it to be just a tad more historical.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmtree
The 3d engine is also slow as hell while simultaneously being plain ugly compared to EU2's seven years older 2d graphics. And then there's the EU:Rome screenshots. Here with a handy comparison to Rome:TW.
Get your pitchfork everyone.....that's a screenshot of Vanilla!!!!
:hmg:
Banned!!! :whip:
:beam:
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starforge
Get your pitchfork everyone.....that's a screenshot of Vanilla!!!!
:hmg:
Banned!!! :whip:
:beam:
You could just call it EB, RTR, or RS or any mods very first BETA thats all :P
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starforge
Basing battles on die rolls of between 0-9 isn't exactly what I would call realistic either. Relatively easy to exploit (unless they fix the ability to leave combat at any time) and if you plan on a military career merely conduct battles in a manner to generate generals that will mod the roll by 5-6 (or wait till the AI hits you with said experienced generals since they can war constantly with no cost to the AI country.)
It's one of the reasons I prefer the modded version with historical events and quite a few changes to how the game plays. It's more suited to a RP style when modded in that way and quite fun but vanilla has quite a few issues including:
Total war: Want to take that Carribean Island from Spain? Make sure you take half their country and their capitol - destroy all their armies around the world because if the AI percieves it can still fight - it won't give you anything. Doesn't matter if the troops are in Lower Siberia and have no realistic way of getting to the island to take it back.
Unrealistic happiness management: Ming - being a large country - will be pushing into the back end of Europe in nearly every game as the AI. This is facilitated by the fact that religion, culture, governmental happiness, etc. have no real impact on country stability (try keeping 3-4 separate religions happy in EU2 without doing some major slider adjustment and management. Guess they figured that was too much work.) It also means - as the player - you can equally keep your Christian and Muslim populations fully satisfied and happy (not just tolerated mind you...but FULLY satisfied.)
Anyone can colonise: So expect to see Venice and the Teutonic order setting up in North America (or any other small country with a border to an ocean.)
Easily duped natives: As the player when playing single player unless you roleplay (which has the drawbacks of being at the mercy of my first point) your first move is to take over the Mexican natives. Successful conversion to your religion converts them to your own culture as well making them extremely lucrative one time rewards (quite a few gold / high trade value provinces.)
Some of these drawbacks are fixed with mods (I can only play it with Magna Mundi personally anymore) but some are like RTW such as the Warscore or the abstract combat rolls (0-9) which really can't be modded making combat problematic (though at least MM mod limits colonization as much as possible for historically non-colonizing nations.)
All in all - if you enjoy grand strategy games and some micromanagement (I do personally) I'd recommend it even with the problems though I'd also recommend modding with Magna Mundi if you like it to be just a tad more historical.
Well the game has it limits, this is as far as it can streach i guess, it is micomanagement and not all options can be open. Often in history, peace was sign after a grand battle. But the game dosnt work that way, once its war its total war. If you whant to reside to small gains you should try diplomacy or attack that nation once its in a weak state. The napoleon expansion + the patches makes the vanilla very playable. Once i pick up the game again im sure i will try a respected mod for the game.
The dice 0-9 issue is solved once you chosen your general and you location of battle. Thiere is after all Shock,Fire,manuver,sige skills the general uses during the battle whit its own traits of 0-9. Then its the terrain witch can favor the defender whit river -2 ec. After that we have quality of the army and morale, least but not last the diffrent units the world uses, its not the same random for all nation, its historical. Playing as ec holland & sweden during the 1700th century you get the best trained troops in the world.
Battels in this period was usaly decisive like the old days, during the day or days a battle was played out it was allways one army that had the upper hand, the roll dice is pretty good in that way. The better the general and army and location in your favor the more chance you strike a crittical blow towards the enemy. Small things matter aswell, you have the army tech, if you have longbow upgrade to your infantry and your enemy has alot of knights then the infantry fend them off easyer.
Woud like to argue alitle more but i got to go. :shame:
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Quote:
Originally Posted by matte89
Well the game has it limits, this is as far as it can streach i guess, it is micomanagement and not all options can be open. Often in history, peace was sign after a grand battle. But the game dosnt work that way, once its war its total war. If you whant to reside to small gains you should try diplomacy or attack that nation once its in a weak state. The napoleon expansion + the patches makes the vanilla very playable. Once i pick up the game again im sure i will try a respected mod for the game.
The dice 0-9 issue is solved once you chosen your general and you location of battle. Thiere is after all Shock,Fire,manuver,sige skills the general uses during the battle whit its own traits of 0-9. Then its the terrain witch can favor the defender whit river -2 ec. After that we have quality of the army and morale, least but not last the diffrent units the world uses, its not the same random for all nation, its historical. Playing as ec holland & sweden during the 1700th century you get the best trained troops in the world.
Battels in this period was usaly decisive like the old days, during the day or days a battle was played out it was allways one army that had the upper hand, the roll dice is pretty good in that way. The better the general and army and location in your favor the more chance you strike a crittical blow towards the enemy. Small things matter aswell, you have the army tech, if you have longbow upgrade to your infantry and your enemy has alot of knights then the infantry fend them off easyer.
Woud like to argue alitle more but i got to go. :shame:
Well, at least you didn't tell me that "if you don't like the AI, play multiplayer" like most of the folks on the Paradox forums when you point out the flaws :).
The game is OK but has some serious flaws in Vanilla. Paradox also has it's small but very dedicated bunch of folks who will defend their products like they are Knights holding Rhodes from the massed Ottoman hordes....
Hitting a country when they are in a weak state doesn't really work as I'm sure you know if you've played it a bit. The instant you attack someone (be they at war or otherwise) they instantly end all other wars to fight the player and the other nations sharing a land border with you are very likely to pounce on the player even your allies (something every RT:W fan should recognize :p.)
Want to make 100% stable borders? Easy! Play as the Ottomans (for example) and force vassalize the balkans so that you only share borders with vassals. This will confuse the AI since they now no longer share a border with you and won't attack vassals of even countries they despise since you can't take a vassal away from another country simply by conquering the vassal.....
I understand that many of the changes were made to address the fact that in EU2 people were blitzing the AI and it was a tad too willing to surrender and make peace but the corrections simply pleased one set of fans while alienating those who played EU2 for a fun semi-historical simulation (mostly single-player folks.) Magna Mundi gold, however, does a very good job of adding the old EU2 single player flavor back in save their inability to mod the peace / warscore / diplomacy system save in certain areas such as the Holy Roman Empire and even there it's scripts for member country behavior - not changes to the underlying system itself.
Again - I have it and play it occasionally and it might hit people on here in the right way especially if they didn't play EU2 to color their opinion of the series. Like most games, it has it's flaws and warts but overall it's an interesting simulation within it's limitations.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
Indeed it has it flaws like all games, still i dont complaine against the AI, playing as sweden and waged war for dacades the AI can indeed plan ahead and use weak spots, the russians attacks once you declared peace whit your enemy and your are weak at that moment for exampel. However if you have peace, build up your prestige your neigbors wont be willing to bakstab you so easy and exampel royal marrige will keep thier land hungry kings in check. Its indeed a game where you need to take many actions to get your will trough.
moust people forget howe to play the game to make it intressting, they build up armys and storm europe, i however set upp diffrent goals depending on what king is on the throne, it is abit of roleplaying. Some may be crasy and other war nuts wile some lives in peace. The game requires its part of imagenation at least in my point of view.
I dont play mutiplayer mutch though, it takes to mutch time and its allways trouble or people drop out. 1on1 matches i bare myself to play though.
Anyway back to topic:
The game looks to be great, its intressting to see what chages they make to the diplomacy settings sense its after all another story in this time period. Im not very intressted in Rome though, allways more on other factions, indeed the power balance is even in 280BC but they better not screw up whit the AI this time, it woud be sad if (dont kill me EB team) the romans stuck back on thier peninsula like in EB or that they get pwed by other powers.
Re: Europa Universalis: Rome
I think Victoria: Revolutions was probably the best out of any paradox game. I completely understand their move to 3d graphics, but, please, RTW had better ones. Give me the old paradox 2d that I've been rather fond of, or quality 3d graphics. I'll probably buy it once it comes out, since despite their successes and flaws, overall they still make a interesting game. If they could just merge the characters of CK, the trade of Vic, and the war detail of Doomsday they'd have a interesting game. Never played any of the EU games.
I'm glad to hear EB is moving onto EU:R since the only time I step in to tactical battles anymore is usually when a heroic victory is needed in a otherwise doomed situation.
