Wow, just had a crazy conversation with the family

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

He's very pro-arab(they were on the Nazi side) and blames terrorism today on the Jews and Israel, much like the left wingers on this board.

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I do believe we blame that on the good Mr. Bush and his colonial cronies.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

I do believe we blame that on the good Mr. Bush and his colonial cronies.

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Yep, that's always where my blame has been put.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

I do believe we blame that on the good Mr. Bush and his colonial cronies.

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Not this (alleged) leftie. The blame for terrorism lies squarely with the terrorists - the young fools that think there is any justification for murder.

The conditions that foster such extremism are things some of us seek to understand (not excuse as some would allege) and thus to change. In so doing, we hope that the "need" to turn to terror tactics is reduced and eventually eliminated. Some of those conditions are needlessly perpetuated by the governments noted above, but by no means all.

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He's very pro-arab(they were on the Nazi side)

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Now I could have sworn that allied arab soldiers outnumbered axis arab soldiers by several hundred thousand . But of course

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He's very smart

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:dizzy2:
...but hold on there were some Poles who aligned with Germany so that does mean that Poland was pro Nazi:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

However, he keeps his personal beliefs very personal and doesn't let it affect his business relations... kinda reminds me of one of those guys in that terrible Ben Affleck movie where Baltimore gets nuke with a swastika on the back of his watch.. :laugh4:

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Sum of All Fears was originally about Arab terrorists doing it but they decided to change it to the old fashioned evil Nazi bad guys.

I havent really met anyone specifically racist here in Northern Ireland. But I have met a few extremely sectarian people. Who would be more than happy to kick out the other side.
I suppose the irony of it is that alot of them claim to be christians and especially ironic with Church of Ireland people (It's Protestant but is very close to being Catholic except for a few small differences).

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Originally Posted by Lemur

To the best of my knowledge, "negro" was not coined as a derogatory term. It derives from nigrum, the Latin word for black. It was the acceptable word for black people until the late 1960s. It's not offensive, just old-fashioned.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

I suspect most black people are sensible enough not to take umbrage at an 80-year-old granny saying how much she loves negro jazz, frankly. Times change, and we all make allowances for older folks.

Admittedly, it would be borderline creepy to hear a college student using the term. In much the same way it would be strange to hear a kid talking about those sizzlin' flappers giving us the high hat. Now you're on the trolley!

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Ah ok. It was just from when she was talking about the singers she liked and she said "All the best musicians back then were ... well, we used to call them Negros but I don't think that's acceptable anymore."

So from that I just assumed it was considered offensive.

Well said Banquo.

Blaming terrorism on Bush is a bit weird since it existed long before him. :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Not this (alleged) leftie. The blame for terrorism lies squarely with the terrorists - the young fools that think there is any justification for murder.

The conditions that foster such extremism are things some of us seek to understand (not excuse as some would allege) and thus to change. In so doing, we hope that the "need" to turn to terror tactics is reduced and eventually eliminated. Some of those conditions are needlessly perpetuated by the governments noted above, but by no means all.

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Lookie: http://www.alastairmcintosh.com/gene...nce-camara.pdf

Mr. Bush would be responsible for the injustices of level 1 violence leading to level 2 violence.

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Originally Posted by ShadesPanther

Sum of All Fears was originally about Arab terrorists doing it but they decided to change it to the old fashioned evil Nazi bad guys.

I havent really met anyone specifically racist here in Northern Ireland. But I have met a few extremely sectarian people. Who would be more than happy to kick out the other side.
I suppose the irony of it is that alot of them claim to be christians and especially ironic with Church of Ireland people (It's Protestant but is very close to being Catholic except for a few small differences).

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I think N. Ireland is intersting because the Troubles have fostered a situation where theological dispute cuts across most other boundaries. I heard that a Muslim group wanted to establish a Mosque in Belfast but the City Council basically "We don't need three sied to the arguement" and refused.

One thing I would say Panther is that as an Anglican Church the Church of Ireland is not like the Catholic Church, though it may appear very similar outwardly.

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I heard that a Muslim group wanted to establish a Mosque in Belfast but the City Council basically "We don't need three sied to the arguement" and refused.

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Thats strange since they have had one for the past 30 years .
Is what you heard along the lines of "are you catholic muslims or protestant muslims" ?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Lookie: http://www.alastairmcintosh.com/gene...nce-camara.pdf

Mr. Bush would be responsible for the injustices of level 1 violence leading to level 2 violence.

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Try reading a little deeper into history then just the current President Bush, blaming Bush is just to simplistic for how the cycle of violence as escalated.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I think N. Ireland is intersting because the Troubles have fostered a situation where theological dispute cuts across most other boundaries. I heard that a Muslim group wanted to establish a Mosque in Belfast but the City Council basically "We don't need three sied to the arguement" and refused.

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The thing is the paramilitary groups hate each other but they also hate ethnic minorities. Although I don't think there is that big of a muslim minority here it's mostly Poles and Chinese.

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One thing I would say Panther is that as an Anglican Church the Church of Ireland is not like the Catholic Church, though it may appear very similar outwardly.

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I know they aren't catholic. They do consider themselves Reformed Catholics, though, they are Protestant. I'm merely just noting the irony of the people who go to CoI are usually the most vocal orangemen.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Now I could have sworn that allied arab soldiers outnumbered axis arab soldiers by several hundred thousand . But of course :dizzy2:

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LoL. You mean those under control of the British and French empires and mandates or those with real political viability?

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Not this (alleged) leftie. The blame for terrorism lies squarely with the terrorists - the young fools that think there is any justification for murder.

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Alright, now I'm convinced you can read my thoughts! :idea2:

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Originally Posted by Redleg

Try reading a little deeper into history then just the current President Bush, blaming Bush is just to simplistic for how the cycle of violence as escalated.

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Of course. But Bush is the current idiot, and the one who actually can change what he is doing. There's very little point in trying to get the world leaders of the 60's to change what they were doing, isn't it?

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LoL. You mean those under control of the British and French empires and mandates or those with real political viability?

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: What real political viability ?:dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Thats strange since they have had one for the past 30 years .
Is what you heard along the lines of "are you catholic muslims or protestant muslims" ?

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heh, that comment reminded me to one by an extremely right-wing, racist politician over here a while back (name of Pauline Hanson) to the effect that she didn't mind Muslims coming into the country...as long as they were Catholic :wall:

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Originally Posted by ShadesPanther

I know they aren't catholic. They do consider themselves Reformed Catholics, though, they are Protestant. I'm merely just noting the irony of the people who go to CoI are usually the most vocal orangemen.

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They might be catholic in form but not really in substance, given that it was the Established Church until 130 years ago it's not really surprising that it is an enclave of Orangemen. The Church is Anglican after all.

I've recently been accused of having deep seated prejudices against Australians. That's what for get for trying to defend your nation in an argument, I suppose. :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Rameusb5

May I ask if their sentiments are common in England? I find them somewhat surprising. Here in America, we tend to think of fascism and the holocost as something that is/was horrific.

I'm shocked that people would actually consider rounding up everyone of a certain race/creed/religion and have them deported or killed. That's a very "uncivilized" concept (no offense to your family).

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I agree with ya, I found it incredibly shocking when I heard it uttered and no, I don't think it's too widespread a sentiment but then my dad was a young man when (predominantly) Pakistanis were coming to West Yorkshire to work in the mills and I think people of his generation in my hometown may have felt resentment and wanted to do something about it.

I tried to suggest that we're all the bloody same regardless of skin colour and creed when he accused me of being a dirty humanist :)

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

hmm my humble opinion is that when debating with someone with strong opinions it is best to remain incredably calm whatever they say.

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Good advice. I tried sarcasm, an even more extreme view to highlight the stupidiy of his ideas and then started shouting when that didn't work, my bad!

Let's just say that the next couple of days following last Thursday night were rather strained and I didn't drink very much at all ;)

I think for future familial gatherings I'll stay well away from recent history and racial politics and talk about rugby or Formula1 instead....




...oh bugger!

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Of course. But Bush is the current idiot, and the one who actually can change what he is doing. There's very little point in trying to get the world leaders of the 60's to change what they were doing, isn't it?

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Again that is a too simplistic a view, and the lazy way out of an explanation on what is going on. Action - reaction has been ongoing for longer then you have been alive in regards to the current event.

President Bush's actions does not explain the events of 9/11 which is the event which caused his reaction.

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Originally Posted by Redleg

Again that is a too simplistic a view, and the lazy way out of an explanation on what is going on. Action - reaction has been ongoing for longer then you have been alive in regards to the current event.

President Bush's actions does not explain the events of 9/11 which is the event which caused his reaction.

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Uhm, yes. But what exactly is your point? Are you saying I should be complaining about why presidents who died long ago isn't doing anything to solve today's situation? Should I be aiming at making Reagan, for example, force a change in todays politics...?

And I do believe I said "Bush and his imperialist cronies", not just Bush.

You're not trying to force a change though. You're just complaining, calling Bush names is simply childish. You absolve yourself of any responsibility by blaming the leader of the foriegn nation.

The majority of generalised prejudices are propogated by ignorance.

Those in a position of power that choose armed conflict as means to an end simply exacerbate the problem by fuelling prejudice with justification.

That's my take on it anyway.