Holiday Inn in Dresden denies Neo-Nazi party leaders hotel room

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Its a privately owned building which is licenced to be open to the public isn't it , to bar members of the public from gaining that access you have to show legal grounds why they cannot enter , a lunatic political ideology is not a legal ground to deny access .

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That would depend on the country and legal system in question. I know that isn't the case here.

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Discrimination against Nazis is no different than against Jews, Negroes, or anybody else. So the manager gets a :rtwno: from me, not only for that but also because he helped the bastids buy more support.

That's on the level of principals. OTOH, I'd love if they suffered from that albeit marginally. :clown:
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I kinda see a difference, you don't have any control over being a jew or a negroe. He should be able to refuse whoever the hell he wants to refuse as long as it's not based on race and religion. Refusing to serve people because of their political beliefs, why not. I don't see any discrimination there.

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That would depend on the country and legal system in question. I know that isn't the case here.

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You mean that in Norway you can discriminate without having a legally valid reason and not face a law suit for discrimination ? Or is it that you can legally discriminate based on political ideology ?

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In the context that this sentence is written - I am not sure your correct, since privately owned business's in the United States have the ability to refuse service to anyone they wish. Now that business must be careful about refusing service, but according to the law here a private business can indeed refuse to serve an individual.

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Yep , as you note the business must be careful , it can indeed refuse service , but if it cannot show grounds why it refused service and why it was entitled to refuse it will open itself to a lawsuit .

There was one case two years ago in town , several hotels were involved , the first had taken a booking , it then tried to cancel the booking by falsely claiming it was double booked , they got sued and lost, the second hotel simply refused without giving a reason yet gave the same people a booking when they used different names , they got sued and lost , a third hotel refused on the grounds of threat to public safety and potential loss of business , they got sued and didn't lose .:yes:
A fourth hotel did take the booking and held the wedding , they did however insist on having an additonal 60,000 cash deposit lodged in advance to ensure good behaviour ...they got to keep that deposit surprisingly enough .
now each of those hotels could legally have discriminated , each could have made a legal case to support that discrimination , but two of them were not careful .
It works the same in town when certain funerals are on , pubs can refuse service if they have grounds to refuse service , but mainly they choose to close on those occasions instead of trying to keep within the law regarding discrimination .

We have similar regulations here (in California) that apply to businesses that require additional licensing, such as pubs/bars. Bar owners can toss someone who has created a disturbance, but not someone who MIGHT, but has not yet, created one.

Service can/must be denied to 'obviously intoxicated' persons, but not to non-english-speaking patrons. Minors get the boot, but not old codgers with unpopular opinions.

The whole thing hinges on the gov't licensing protocols. No one denies that Mike G. (my local pub owner) could invite the entire bar to his nearby house to party, and deny entrance to anyone he chooses, on any whim that strikes him. But his licensed business, 2 blocks away, must serve everyone who walks into the place, unless he has a documentable, legal reason.

As a shop or hotel owner in Germany and other European countries,
you don't have the right to refuse service as it is in the United States.

To refuse the service there needs to be a legal incident first after which
you can ban a certain person from your premises. Preemptive banning on the basis of colour, race, ideology etc is not allowed.
That's my understanding of our laws.
I've to admit though that there seems to be a legal grey zone if you look at clubs or discos. The bouncers are entitled to refuse you access. I guess that those are somehow not public but declared private, to be able to do that.

The letter is well written and humorous. Way to go.
On the other hand, if someone would pull this off on Jews, Africans etc it would be an absolute outrage.
Perhaps we could use some guerilla tactics. Invite an African Team or a Jewish delegation to the same floor and wait for the NPD guys to make defaming (illegal) racist remarks, record them, sue them, game over.

R'as

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Perhaps we could use some guerilla tactics. Invite an African Team or a Jewish delegation to the same floor and wait for the NPD guys to make defaming (illegal) racist remarks, record them, sue them, game over.

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Well that village with the dispute over the rallies at the war memorial lays on samba music and puts up projections of Nazi atrocities on the walls next to where the PND make their speeches .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Well that village with the dispute over the rallies at the war memorial lays on samba music and puts up projections of Nazi atrocities on the walls next to where the PND make their speeches .

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Looking at photos of concentration camp victims while listening to a sound mix of NPD propaganda speeches and samba? Sounds like a nightmare. :dizzy2:

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Sounds like a nightmare.

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They added new sounds to the nightmare , they invented a new traditional local bavarian festival to cioincide with the rallies , it is a festival of wood machinery and involves lots of loud powersaws .:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

They added new sounds to the nightmare , they invented a new traditional local bavarian festival to cioincide with the rallies , it is a festival of wood machinery and involves lots of loud powersaws .:laugh4:

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That reminds me of...

Clerical boom drowns out German Nazis

BTW, the charges were dropped :beam:

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Originally Posted by R'as al Ghul

Looking at photos of concentration camp victims while listening to a sound mix of NPD propaganda speeches and samba? Sounds like a nightmare. :dizzy2:

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yeah....Photos of concentration camps are some of the most horrific things I have ever seen..

but...

blasting Samba???:skull: .... that´s just mean!

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Originally Posted by Ronin

blasting Samba???:skull: .... that´s just mean!

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Suits them just right imho

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but...

blasting Samba??? .... that´s just mean!

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why ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlLVOCstots:2thumbsup:

Such bravery!

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Such bravery!

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Yes of course , not so brave as killing women and kids because of their religeon , but hey not everyone can rise up to Nazi standards:dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

religeon

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That is what you get when you mix priests and doves

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I kinda see a difference, you don't have any control over being a jew or a negroe. He should be able to refuse whoever the hell he wants to refuse as long as it's not based on race and religion. Refusing to serve people because of their political beliefs, why not. I don't see any discrimination there.

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All the same. Erase the words Negroes and Jews from sentence and put in Liberals and Social Democrats for instance. Discrimination is discrimination, on whatever basis. There is no guarantee for someone who denies service based on political stance to do it later on other criteria such as ethnicity, colour, nationality, religion, gender, whatever. As I said, I love what the guy did but I can't approve it.

The notion of public service is different than private property. One has every right to deny admittance to his property that's not meant to serve the public, on whatever criterion he likes or none at all. But once you begin allowing that in hotels, restaurants, civil service facilities, schools etc. it can't be stoppable.
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I believe that its right for the WWII winners to destroy their oponnents on ANY level so the same thing doesnt happen again...And we all know who were the real winners after WWII...

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

You mean that in Norway you can discriminate without having a legally valid reason and not face a law suit for discrimination ? Or is it that you can legally discriminate based on political ideology ?

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He could easily say that having that guy in his hotel would discomfort his other guests, and thus making him lose money. Which would be more than enough reason to deny them.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

He could easily say that having that guy in his hotel would discomfort his other guests, and thus making him lose money. Which would be more than enough reason to deny them.

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My thoughts exactly, a shame he had to make a statement. Personally I find it rediculous that someone can't 'discriminate' on politics in his own establishment, your privatly owned business is no common good.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

My thoughts exactly, a shame he had to make a statement. Personally I find it rediculous that someone can't 'discriminate' on politics in his own establishment, your privatly owned business is no common good.

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Push it too far though, and you'll hit the anti-discrimination laws and you'll be fined. However, this example would be perfectly legal, because the would-be guest is a well-known and highly controversial guy.

But denying service to some unknown black guy would hit the discrimination laws. If he was a black guy famous because he demanded the annihilation of white people however, then he could be denied too. Or a muslim mullah of some sort famous for terrorist links/hate propaganda.

Said it before somewhere back, that wouldn't be acceptable because being black isn't a choice, politics is though, it's perfectly fine to disagree by denying service imho. Constitution is clear by the way, race religion sexual preference, nothing on politics.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Said it before somewhere back, that wouldn't be acceptable because being black isn't a choice, politics is though, it's perfectly fine to disagree by denying service imho. Constitution is clear by the way, race religion sexual preference, nothing on politics.

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Yup. Brings to mind an example of a well-known neo-nazi here, who wasn't even allowed to buy a house in this area. And that was by the state itself...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Yup. Brings to mind an example of a well-known neo-nazi here, who wasn't even allowed to buy a house in this area. And that was by the state itself...

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That I don't like, state has no business doing that unless it has really good reasons, locals collectively bought the property in a similar case here, that is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That I don't like, state has no business doing that unless it has really good reasons, locals collectively bought the property in a similar case here, that is the way to go.

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It was a few years ago...

According to this http://www.vg.no/pub/vgart.hbs?artid=245383 the local government contacted his landlord who then threw him out.