MiniMe Temporary Pre-1.1 EDB alteration

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Originally Posted by Basileus Seleukeia

Perhaps you could also solve the Seleucid Elephantes Indiokoi AOR problem.
The Armored version is accesible through AS's Factional MIC in all sensible regions: Syria,Baktria and India. But the unarmored version is only available through teh factional MIC of Syria, but in all other regions they can only be recruited via regional baracks

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that may be a misplacement or may be intentional. I'll have to check what kind of government is available for greys in india
EDIT LATER
Greys can't build level 2 Government in India, it was intentional

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Edit: And btw, Pontos can recruit kleruchoi phalangitai, they need a level 4 regional barrack in the provinces that are marked in the recruitment viewer.

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Oh! thanx for the tip, very intresting. I wonder if this was intentional. Must be...

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Minime, could you please upload the file on filefront? Uploaded.com is having problems with my browser.

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EDIT LATER: DONE

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

How do I combine this file with TW Fanatic's phalanx/cohort/elephant minimod? :/

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TW Fanatic's minimod uses his own EDB. I'll ask him to upload it for me and see what can I do

MiniMe I just installed your mod and when I clicked the EB shortcut the Loading screen appeared for a few seconds then crashed with this error message.

Script Error in EB/Data/EDB/ line 9517 column61 unknown unit type specified roman calvary eqvites praetoriani.

I believe you have TW Fanatic's minimod preinstalled, right?
TWF removed pretorian cavalry from his minimod at all, while in my EDB they still exist.
Currently my EDB and TW Fanatic's minimod are incompatible, I'll contact him, and see what we can do.
Before that you can either play with my EDB either with his minimod
sorry mate :shame:

BTW: I'm running my campaigns with my EDB for hours. Nothing crashes, that's why I'm so sure.

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

More alterations made, first post link and description update.
more (of what we've been discussing) to follow. sooner or later
Best regards
MiniMe

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Thank you very much! Looking foreward to my next KH campaign without classical Hoplites as the core unit

Oh, sooner or later you'll see that classical Hoplites are indispensable (before you'll get your hands on shining longpikes). Very good unit these classics are.
BTW, have you seen the incredible KH adventures in your "win_conditions" topic? Dudes are hyper-active

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

Oh, sooner or later you'll see that classical Hoplites are indispensable (before you'll get your hands on shining longpikes). Very good unit these classics are.

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Oh yes, I am hughe fan of these guys since I had a complete army of them in one of my Pontic campaigns. In KH campaigns I usually end up with the same army. But next time I will try to use a more historical army and don't want to take on the battleflieds of the 3rd Century with an army of 5th Century.

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BTW, have you seen the incredible KH adventures in your "win_conditions" topic? Dudes are hyper-active

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Ups that's new, will take a look.

Ahhh! Yes I have TWfanatics mod installed. Well let me uninstall it.

More alterations made, first post link and description update.
more (of what we've been discussing) to follow. sooner or later
Best regards
MiniMe

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

I believe you have TW Fanatic's minimod preinstalled, right?
TWF removed pretorian cavalry from his minimod at all, while in my EDB they still exist.
Currently my EDB and TW Fanatic's minimod are incompatible, I'll contact him, and see what we can do.
Before that you can either play with my EDB either with his minimod
sorry mate :shame:

BTW: I'm running my campaigns with my EDB for hours. Nothing crashes, that's why I'm so sure.

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Well, I haven't hit Marian yet so maybe it'll still be ok? lol

Looking forward to this mod.

Here you are lads!

http://files.filefront.com/EDB+compa.../fileinfo.html

This is compatible with my mod. I hope MM can forgive me for modifying and releasing his intellectual property.

It looks great btw, I'll be sure to try it out.~:thumb:

Whaaat? Another revision of ethiopian agema, but no ethiopian swordsmen still?!

MiniMe, did you ever noticed my previous post? Pay attention, pls! ;)

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Originally Posted by TWFanatic

Here you are lads!
http://files.filefront.com/EDB+compa.../fileinfo.html
This is compatible with my mod. I hope MM can forgive me for modifying and releasing his intellectual property.

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Hey, you did exactly what I was hoping you would =)

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Originally Posted by Lgk

Whaaat? Another revision of ethiopian agema, but no ethiopian swordsmen still?!

MiniMe, did you ever noticed my previous post? Pay attention, pls! ;)

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Sorry, Lgk, I did noticed your previous post and I agree with you that these swordsmen need to be added, I just had no time left, Greys were sieging my cities constantly. This would be the top priority, but tomorrow ;-)
Best regards
MiniMe.

Minime, the problem with the elephants is that, as it is now, the Greys can't recruit armoured elephants in India, and can't recruit unarmoured ones in Baktria if having anything better than a type 3 government.
And did you contact the team about the pontic kleruchoi phalangitai? I don't think it is an oversight that they need a type 3 government for them.

Today I am going to finish with ethiopian and aravian units for east greeks and saba. Noone else actually needs those and my job on ethiopian-aravian gap will be over.

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Originally Posted by Basileus Seleukeia

Minime, the problem with the elephants is that, as it is now, the Greys can't recruit armoured elephants in India, and can't recruit unarmoured ones in Baktria if having anything better than a type 3 government.

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Elephant recruitment will be my next priority, but don't expext me to apply radical changes.

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And did you contact the team about the pontic kleruchoi phalangitai? I don't think it is an oversight that they need a type 3 government for them.

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About Pontus... Never played them, had no idea of their recruitment and was very surprised to see that half their greek units is recruited through own MIC and the other half is recruited through regional MIC. Does not seem to be right. Have to seriously think about it. My first thought is to move all greek units to regonal MIC cause I see Pontus as Baktria mirror image (easterlings heavy influenced by greeks versus greeks heavy influenced by easterlings).
BTW, is it Ok say "easterlings"? I don't see anything bad in this word, do you?
And: I don't like situations, when level 4 unit is available only from level 5 MIC (example: unarmored eles for Epeiros) or level 3 unit is available only from level 4 MIC.
Let's put it this way: I would like to see the whole recruitment system based on common rules and principles. I understand that there have to be some exeptions but not too many.
About contacts with EB team: due to my poor English knowledge, emotional way of expressing myself and tactlessness every time I am trying to start or continue a conversation on some arguable issue I always manage to hurt someones feelings. That why I'm not going to do it anymore.
Best regards
MiniMe.

More alterations made, first post link and description update.
more (of what we've been discussing) to follow. sooner or later
Best regards
MiniMe

P.S.: Very intrested in your opinion on Pontos specific recruitment of greek units (see post above)

Pontos is made a very "Persian" by the recruitement system. It is up to the players roleplaying the faction to judge if that is right or if it is not right. IMHO she is more a Hellenic faction, especially because her homelands are all lands with a large Greek population. The problem is basicly the very strict way the building tree handles Pontic MIC building. You have either completly stick to locals or to factionals, there is no 'Golden Middle', like for other factions when a Level II Governement still allows for a Level III local MIC and a level IV factional MIC.

I would prefer to have the Successor units in the factional MICs and some of the Persian units, in particular those that are not be had in Asia Minor, in the local MICs to make it more a "Pergamon-Thrakian" faction than a "Armenia-Parthian" one. But I am sure other players also have good arguments why it should be the way it is now.

Minime, could you please also update the version that is compatible to TWF's mod and then host it? Just made a total fresh reinstall of EB and now I want to play some Epeiros with Thorakitai and Hypaspistai!:2thumbsup:

Unfortunately, I've lost TWF file and his link so I can't while he's absent.
I suggest you keep playing his old minimod version for now, after he's back on forum, he'll add my newest to his minimod and you would be able to continue your campaign

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Originally Posted by Basileus Seleukeia

[...]pontic kleruchoi phalangitai? I don't think it is an oversight that they need a type 3 government for them.

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ISTM they are a creation of the Daidochi governments, given land grants in return for service, and the men are mostly ethnically hellenic. They are inherent to their location and they have a bond to the specific government that imported them. For Pontos to recruit them (at least straight away) would be taking over a local institution. So I see a good reason for making them regional.

As for the regional MIC being level 4, I don't buy that in itself -- why should Pontos need 67% more buildings to train pikemen than the AS do? But a level 4 MIC requires a level 3 or 4 government, i.e accomodation of the local way of life, and I do buy that as a cultural requirement for Pontos to take over this semi-feudal relationship with the troops. So level 4 makes an indirect sort of sense to me.

Now for the tricky bit... I see no reason Pontos shouldn't eventually have created their own Klereuchoi Phalangitai from level 3 factional MICs, if they'd got big and decided to copy the "land for pike duties system" for themselves. It seems especially plausible if they conquered the recruiting areas, which they didn't do in history but might do in the game. But that would need some sort of reform trigger, or a new recruiting principle that permits change over time.

At the end of the day though, this seems like a judgement call and a question of your goals. Do you want the mod to be historical, i.e. to reflect what actually happened? Or should it be realistic, i.e. what might reasonably have happened if things had played out differently after 272? The EB team are hardcore historical, but not all the players are.

Me, I'd make 'em level 3 regional but include a note about it. Let players decide whether to build them out of govt 2 + R-MIC 3 or voluntarily restrict themselves to govt 3 + R-MIC 4. Me, I'd play govt 3 + R-MIC 3.

[I think Pontos aren't going to conquer any of their recruiting zones under AI control, so there's no worry about facing them when you shouldn't.]

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Originally Posted by TWFanatic

Here you are lads!

http://files.filefront.com/EDB+compa.../fileinfo.html

This is compatible with my mod. I hope MM can forgive me for modifying and releasing his intellectual property.

It looks great btw, I'll be sure to try it out.~:thumb:

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What aspects are changed? Since your version doesn't have Praetorian cavalry and his does have Praetorian cavalry. (I hope this is save game compatible with pre-Marian Roman campaigns)

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Originally Posted by Morte66

Now for the tricky bit... I see no reason Pontos shouldn't eventually have created their own Klereuchoi Phalangitai from level 3 factional MICs, if they'd got big and decided to copy the "land for pike duties system" for themselves. It seems especially plausible if they conquered the recruiting areas, which they didn't do in history but might do in the game. But that would need some sort of reform trigger, or a new recruiting principle that permits change over time.

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On the other hand, in EB Pontos can recruit levy Phalanxes and the elite version. Only the medium one is missing. So, if we say that Pontos cannot recruit the Klereuchoi because that requires a Successor kind of governement/military constitution, we can very well assume that Pontos would be able to field her own version of a medium phalanx.

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Originally Posted by konny

...more a "Pergamon-Thrakian" faction than a "Armenia-Parthian" one...

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very good point, Konny. Actually, exactly these words are what stops me from converting Pontos to be an eastern faction...
On the other hand, we have as much as six greek factions in the game already...
Not that I'm wiling to create a weak armenian clone...
perhaps the best would be to leave it as it is? At least, for now...

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

What aspects are changed? Since your version doesn't have Praetorian cavalry and his does have Praetorian cavalry. (I hope this is save game compatible with pre-Marian Roman campaigns)

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He only edits the EDB. All I've done is add the first cohort units to the recruitment list and remove the praetorian cavalry.

Taken from my First Cohort/Phalanx/Elephant/Chariot minimod thread:

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Originally Posted by me

I have added MiniMe's Temporary Pre-1.1 EDB alteration to the chocolate version (vanilla still just has the changes mentioned for the Romans) and will continue to update the download every time MM makes a new release of his mod. In addition, I have fixed a small mistake I made in the EDU...let's just say that your hoplites will now have a lot more PUSH.

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So you'll want to download my mod again. It has the latest version of MM's mod.

Cheers to MM for being cooperative.

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Originally Posted by MiniMe

very good point, Konny. Actually, exactly these words are what stops me from converting Pontos to be an eastern faction...
On the other hand, we have as much as six greek factions in the game already...

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That is right. On the other hand, the starting position of Pontos doesn't allow for much more than becoming Hegemon of the Asian and Black Sea Greeks. Everything else would mean to "Alexander" the Seleucids, with the starting army of Pontos in EB(!), and head into Mesopotamia. That is nigh impossible. So, most of the times the player will start marching along the Southern Black Sea, taking Nikaia, Byzantion, Pergamon, Sinope, Trapezunt and will build up his little empire before messing up with the big dogs. Therefore it could be good if the Greek units are also a part of the Pontic factional line up.

I think I found another unit that has recruitment problems in Eb 1.0, the Indo-Iranian light cavalry: In custom battles nearly every faction has them, but according to the recruitment viewer only Baktria and Pahlava can recruit them.
And I'm not sure if you already added the Red-Sea light infantry to the eastern factions, in custom battles they are widely available.

Thanx for spotting this out, Basileus Seleukeia.
I will deal with these AS problems in a couple of days
Best regards
MiniMe

As Makedonia, in western Asia Minor - Halikarnassos, Sardis etc, I can recruit Silver Shields but not Pezhetaroi (exactly the same as the KH recruitment of elite pike phalanx, but not the basic ones). I realise there is probably a good historical reason for this i.e. what social class the troop types came from etc, but it does seem a little odd.
I can also recruit the levy phalanx but that seems pretty much ok, though it should really peter out and native phalanx should come in fairly soon after getting past the Mak borders.

Makedonians don't have Pantodapoi Phalangitai, they share their modell with the deuteroi. Stupid hardcode-problem.

So, TWfanatic and MM, when I DL the latest available version of TW First Cohort Mod and install all the files there, I'll be able to continue my Romani campaign without any problems?
I installed FC mod and I'm currently playing with that mod, so I presume there will be no problem about save game compatibility?
Can anything happen if I DL and install the latest package of the FC Mod and then add to it the "FC compatible MM's EDB file"?

BTW: TWFanatic, did You add the MM's EDB to the latest FCMod download package?
In the FCMod package available from the link in the first post of the FC thread (the "EB_First_Cohort_Phalanx_Ed.zip") I can see in the "chocolate" version the EDB file with it's size of 12932740 bytes; however, the file with MM's EDB compatible with FC Mod (package named as "EDB_compatible_with_Fanatd.zip") has the size of 12847725 bytes.
Which file is correct one?

And is the "compatible file" intended to be used in "chocolate" or "vanilla" version of the FC Mod?

EDIT