Middle east shmiddle east, we can have a war right here !

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Louis XVI died heedless of things like these...

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I heard that Marie Antoinette gave good head...

Geez Pann, can't you try to avoid outbursts like that. There's no reason to lose ones head, you know.

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Originally Posted by Furunculu5

the old white mans hard liquor will sort them out!

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I think alcohol is a big part of the social problem over there. :shifty:

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

I think alcohol is a big part of the social problem over there. :shifty:

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i know. ;)

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Originally Posted by Furunculu5

i know. ;)

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Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you though! Drowning your sorrows and secessionist tendencies alike in buckets of alcohol has always been the historically safer choice. :book:

My thanks to those who did some digging up of links to the actual treaties. I suspect that this one will be a forgotten story, however it is an election year and this is one of those little things that has the potential to creep into the mainstream.

Stay tuned

Wow, I guess America is in real trouble now...

This is really interesting if you put it in relation with the situation in Serbia and Kosovo. Should Americans fight for other peoples liberty and neglect their own people the same?

If there would be a war between Lakota and US, would that justify the bombings of Washington D.C by the rest of the world? Just hypothetical..

Actually - It could be. The snowball effect is a serious issue. Hawaii is a State with pretty serious nationalistic grievances among some people. Alaskans, various south western natives, etc are technically on government land and any movement to allow secession of government land can have serious ramifications.

Again, as the political legitimacy of breaking away from an increasingly out of touch federal government increases with precedents, more citizens will be tempted to chisel away at the motherland. For better or worse? I'm on the fence.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Geez Pann, can't you try to avoid outbursts like that. There's no reason to lose ones head, you know.

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I can't help it if ol' Marie is known for going around topless.

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

Actually - It could be. The snowball effect is a serious issue. Hawaii is a State with pretty serious nationalistic grievances among some people. Alaskans, various south western natives, etc are technically on government land and any movement to allow secession of government land can have serious ramifications.

Again, as the political legitimacy of breaking away from an increasingly out of touch federal government increases with precedents, more citizens will be tempted to chisel away at the motherland. For better or worse? I'm on the fence.

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Excellent post and brings the topic back to where i was hoping it would go. While I'm not convinced this will be a serious story going forward, technically the indian nations have a legit argument they each one is a seperate nation. (same with Hawaii in a sense).

This is absolutely a small chip away at the republic and one that should be dealt with in a mature efficent manner. We have by no means dressed ourselves in glory over the years in dealing with native americans. That said going forward we need to address thier plight as the state of reservations/indian tribes is pretty dismal.

More entitlements? I dont know, but imagine if we had spent 25% of reconstruction money from Iraq in some of the reservation area's? I dont want long term entitlements here, but if we are going to tax and spend all this money to be spent abroad, we really ought to consider taking some of it and investing in the people's lives here at home.

This theory is a little bit of slippery slope though as I dont want to get into active socialist programs (like we have in wonderful MA). That said this story smacks of people fed up with a federal system that operates on international expectations set forth by ideologs, some long dead.

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Originally Posted by Bulawayo

This is really interesting if you put it in relation with the situation in Serbia and Kosovo. Should Americans fight for other peoples liberty and neglect their own people the same?

If there would be a war between Lakota and US, would that justify the bombings of Washington D.C by the rest of the world? Just hypothetical..

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Read up, they renounced their citizenship and aren't a part of the US. Hardly "our own" people.

The rest of the world? Who's first? :laugh4:

Yes well it will likely get funnier when they start adjudicating land claims in the world court or something along those lines.

The US has reneged on just about every treaty it ever signed with Native Americans. If their original lands were reinstated that would take in everything from western Minnesota to the Rockies, the Canadian border to northern Kansas. But what the heck, no one on the east coast is going to miss it any way.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Read up, they renounced their citizenship and aren't a part of the US. Hardly "our own" people.

The rest of the world? Who's first? :laugh4:

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I bet you laugh when you read about Wounded Knee too, am I not right?

As long at there is life there is hope, but I doubt there is any hope for you.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well if you go that far back, why not just send them to that valley in Africa where we all came from?

No wait, the US is christian, I guess that means they have to be deported to the garden of eden, right?

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atheism nothingness is better?

Bulawayo- ya like wounded knee really stoped us.

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Originally Posted by Boyar Son

atheism nothingness is better?

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Uhm, what?

nevermind.


thanks to the last Indian generations that served, too bad that time people didnt want to congratulate them.

But what has this one done? complain? they better do their part nothing for free.

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Originally Posted by BigTex

...Seems almost blindingly moronic on the side of the lakota to do this. But they seem to be out seeking international help also. With the UN agreements this might actually turn out ugly both ways.

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Good point. The real trick will be getting some other nations to "recognize" Lakota-stan as a separate country. That done, they could press their case in International courts and the UN.

Or, maybe they'll seek legitimacy via relations with US "thorns" (N. Korea, Venezula, Iran...).

Meh. UN resolutions are paper to the wind. If they want to press their luck, they can see if the next U.S. president is willing to keep the Union together.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

Meh. UN resolutions are paper to the wind...

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Leaves. Dust. Sand, even.

in the wind.

Paper?

Anyway... point taken. UN resolutions mean little without teeth, provided by the sec council.

Maybe one of those guys (sec council) might find it handy to support an independence movement within the us?

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Maybe one of those guys (sec council) might find it handy to support an independence movement within the us?

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maybe China should start mass producing bumper stickers "free lakota-stan" that'll show em ~;)

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Good point. The real trick will be getting some other nations to "recognize" Lakota-stan as a separate country. That done, they could press their case in International courts and the UN.

Or, maybe they'll seek legitimacy via relations with US "thorns" (N. Korea, Venezula, Iran...).

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I don't believe a lot of nations will recognise 'Lakota-stan' very soon. The UN treats the Lakota tribe (and the whole of the Indian community) as a minority within a country and not as a nation (to be).I also doubt that members of the Lakota tribe would seek to be affiliated with countries such as N. Korea, Iran and the likes, even if those countries would oppenly support the Lakota. This support would do more harm than good.

And on the matter of international courts: When has the USA ever recognised an international court? The USA doesn't recognise international courts because if they did American citizins could also be judged by them.

Sometimes it isn't funny anymore how easily the USA* as a nation judges over others while turning several blind eyes on their own faults.



* I know other countries do the same or would wish to do the same, but a superpower with a 'holier than thou'-attitude does get noticed more.

The recently declared kingdom of HoreToreStan openly supports Lakotastans heroic struggle for freedom from their oppressive occupiers.

Why do you hate freedom?

If US can unilaterally recognise Kosovo, Russia can recognised Lakota state… That would be funny, indeed….:beam:

that would indeed be funny.

So, the big question I assume is - will the .org government recognize this country? Or, more importantly, how much bribe money constructive assistance are they willing to give us to eh facilitate our hard work to make a decision beneficial for all parties?

The Supreme Internetocratic Commonwealth of Org reckognises no nation, as all are inherrently inferior. :smug:

Not The First Time.

There'll be a scuffle. And then nobody but the people who were there will care.

“UN resolutions are paper to the wind” The last guy who issued this kind of statement was proved badly wrong… Never underestimated the power of paper and treaties, sometimes they can surprise you…:beam:

Well, the Lakota have precedent.

Conch Republic