-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
To someone from western europe, those words can be used to describe any country/group east of germany and austria, like poles, the baltic, the entire balkan, russians etc. I find it funny when they use those words on each other...
Well, you need to revise your geography if you think Norway is in western Europe. It's northern Europe. And the Balkans are south of Germany and Austria. Or were you talking about political divisions of Europe? In that case you need to revise your history since the cold war is over for quite some time now and that division is meaningless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
It's like a dumpster really; to someone outside the dumpster, it seems pointless to find the cleanest place in the dumpster, it's a dump anyway.
Don't forget that that "dump" (slave traders, prostitutes, drugs) ends up in your house in the end. It seems that you got so clean while you were climbing on a moral pedestal, that you felt the need to have constant influx of dump. Or do you think that a person from <insert "eastearn" country> who sells a thirteen year old girl is worse than a person from <insert "western" country> who actually rapes her?
I don't like going off topic, but I hate when people generalize, and are rude while doing it. Don't use analogies like that anymore.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Or were you talking about political divisions of Europe? In that case you need to revise your history since the cold war is over for quite some time now and that division is meaningless.
May be in theory, but the gap in wealth is still incredibly huge, and so the division is still very true. And as far as division within the eastern bloc goes - to an outsider, it looks mostly the same. Trying to see who's the best seems pointless. We care about the teams playing in the premier league, who's number one in the conference league isn't really interesting or relevant at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
I don't like going off topic, but I hate when people generalize, and are rude while doing it. Don't use analogies like that anymore.
And yet you didn't find the original statement rude or generalizing...? :inquisitive:
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Well, I don't think I would call that gap "incredibly huge", but I don't want to enter a discussion about that now. What I am certain of is that "dumpster" comparison is unappropriate for difference in wealth.
Krook did say some truth. Namely, Kosovo is, since 1999, the biggest entry point for drugs, slave, prostitutes, weapons etc... that's going to western Europe. I can't discern from his post did he meant "Kosovo" or "Kosovo Albanians". If he meant Kosovo than he was completely right. If he meant Kosovo Albanians, than he was wrong.
Even he meant Kosovo Albanians, it still isn't even remotely close to what you said - calling a territory of several million sq km which several hundred millions people consider their home -> a dumpster.
Let's not go OT anymore. You have a right to your opinion, even if you call my home a dumpster.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
To someone from western europe, those words can be used to describe any country/group east of germany and austria, like poles, the baltic, the entire balkan, russians etc. I find it funny when they use those words on each other...
As Sarmatian said. Who is worse - those who sell drugs to dealer od the one who sell children. Who is worse - someone who sell people to work camp or someone who is running work camp. Someone who might not like Jews or someone who tell that he likes them and burns their churches at night.
Visit Poland, stay for a week and then visit Kosovo. Feel the difference. Visit Warsaw then visit Moscow with black friend. Feel the diffence.
We can't allow on another terror zone into Europe. Kosovo will be terror zone. Maybe there is many good people who just want to live peacefully but province is being controlled by criminals - and they alone will not allow on loosing control over it.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooK
As Sarmatian said. Who is worse - those who sell drugs to dealer od the one who sell children. Who is worse - someone who sell people to work camp or someone who is running work camp. Someone who might not like Jews or someone who tell that he likes them and burns their churches at night.
Visit Poland, stay for a week and then visit Kosovo. Feel the difference. Visit Warsaw then visit Moscow with black friend. Feel the diffence.
We can't allow on another terror zone into Europe. Kosovo will be terror zone. Maybe there is many good people who just want to live peacefully but province is being controlled by criminals - and they alone will not allow on loosing control over it.
shouldn't it be all the more reason to slowly bring it in to the EU and make/help it get rid of the crimnals....
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Guys, less attacks on nations and ethnic groups and more discussion on politics and ways forward.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooK
Visit Warsaw then visit Moscow with black friend. Feel the diffence.
What is this supposed to mean? Have you ever to Moscow? I remember a considerable amount of those who I believe were French Algerians.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Krook did say some truth. Namely, Kosovo is, since 1999, the biggest entry point for drugs, slave, prostitutes, weapons etc... that's going to western Europe. I can't discern from his post did he meant "Kosovo" or "Kosovo Albanians". If he meant Kosovo than he was completely right. If he meant Kosovo Albanians, than he was wrong.
I read and understood it as "kosovo albanians", and responded as such.
But still... Poland is the biggest entry point for drugs coming here, the balts are a steady supply of thieves and the russkies have their mafia, so there's no real reason to rant about Kosovo the country like that either. As Jesus said, look at the log in your own eye before you look at the toothpick in your next(or something like that)...
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
What is this supposed to mean? Have you ever to Moscow? I remember a considerable amount of those who I believe were French Algerians.
Never been there and I don't think I go.
Once upon a day I searched at youtube and thats why I will not go to Moscow
WARNING - BRUTAL
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=DYONyy3MQO4
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=LWZ8hB...eature=related
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=mQa4S0DN9L4
Difference beetwen Warsaw and Moscow is that we send them to jails while Russians to police units.
Getting back to Kosovo. I wonder what would happened if Kosovo became independent?
It would unite with Albania or something?
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KrooK
Getting back to Kosovo. I wonder what would happened if Kosovo became independent?
Perhaps it would just be an independent nation?:yes:
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Sky News has just anounced that Kosovo will declare independance on sunday.
The flying fecal matter is about the impact the rotating air circulation unit :oops:
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Krook did say some truth. Namely, Kosovo is, since 1999, the biggest entry point for drugs, slave, prostitutes, weapons etc... that's going to western Europe.
No , that would be Poland and the Baltic States , then you could add Ukraine , then down to Romania , Bulgaria .
Quote:
If they want their own state, they should go to Albania.
If Serbs want their own State they should go to Serbia , after all they only emigrated and had children .:dizzy2:
Quote:
Perhaps it would just be an independent nation?
What you mean like Serbia or Poland ?
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
No , that would be Poland and the Baltic States , then you could add Ukraine , then down to Romania , Bulgaria .
Well, I remember reading in just about every text that deals with that sort of stuff that Kosovo is the single biggest entry point. Could be wrong, though. Maybe it's just drugs and weapons...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
If Serbs want their own State they should go to Serbia , after all they only emigrated and had children . :dizzy2:
:dizzy2: :dizzy2: What are you talking about???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
What you mean like Serbia or Poland?
Yeah, that's the perfect comparison :wall: :stupido:
Anyway, it seems that independence will be proclaimed tommorow at 17:00h local time (I think it's GMT +1). There was quit a bit of Albanian cars traveling through Serbia, from Europe going to Kosovo, often traveling in small convoys (5 or more cars together) fully adorned with albanian flags and and other national symbols. Fortunately, provocations were ignored and and no harm was done...
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Well, I remember reading in just about every text that deals with that sort of stuff that Kosovo is the single biggest entry point. Could be wrong, though. Maybe it's just drugs and weapons...
No , not at all , though it depends on what drugs you are talking about , Ireland is a popular entry point , as is Spain and Italy , so is Britain or Holland .
The Balkan route is very active from Asia , Africa and Asia Minor , but the main point of entry there is Greece not Kosovo . For Afghan/Pakistni herion its mainly through former Soviets and the Baltics , easily demonstrated by the huge surge in opium processing facilities there.
As for weapons , once again it is the former Soviet republics , though of course the former Yugoslavia is getting plenty of action there too (not just Kosovo) .
Now of course since you are talking of drug entry into the EU .... so I wonder where the EU put its money and effort into tackling the Balkan route ?....it wouldn't by any chance be Greece would it ?:inquisitive:
Where is the Greek/Kosovan border ? There must be one because if Greece is the entry point in the EU then the drugs must be going there from Kosovo right ...if of course Kosovo is what you claim it is .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
But indeed we must consider the E.U. actions in Greece to stop the trade , which is why for the Balkan route it is shifting to Bulgaria and Romania . Now Bulgaria almost has a border with Kosovo doesn't it , sort of seperated by something . That something must be the route for the drugs eh , so that means that Serbia is full of drug smugglers , damn serbians they are all drug dealers .
Quote:
What are you talking about???
Its exactly the same as what some people are saying about Kosovo , if it is true for Kosovo then it is true for Serbia . Unless of course it it is absolute nonsense in both cases .
So Sarmatian which is it ? true in both cases or nonsense in both cases ?
Quote:
Yeah, that's the perfect comparison
But it is , both were created and have come and gone and come and gone with the changes of time , both have had changes in population , both have existed in various forms comprising of varying territory .
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
What you mean like Serbia or Poland ?
Like about every country that declared independence and was recognised internationally, including Serbia, Poland, Belgium and Ireland.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
No , not at all , though it depends on what drugs you are talking about , Ireland is a popular entry point , as is Spain and Italy , so is Britain or Holland .
The Balkan route is very active from Asia , Africa and Asia Minor , but the main point of entry there is Greece not Kosovo . For Afghan/Pakistni herion its mainly through former Soviets and the Baltics , easily demonstrated by the huge surge in opium processing facilities there.
As for weapons , once again it is the former Soviet republics , though of course the former Yugoslavia is getting plenty of action there too (not just Kosovo) .
Now of course since you are talking of drug entry into the EU .... so I wonder where the EU put its money and effort into tackling the Balkan route ?....it wouldn't by any chance be Greece would it ?:inquisitive:
Where is the Greek/Kosovan border ? There must be one because if Greece is the entry point in the EU then the drugs must be going there from Kosovo right ...if of course Kosovo is what you claim it is .:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
But indeed we must consider the E.U. actions in Greece to stop the trade , which is why for the Balkan route it is shifting to Bulgaria and Romania . Now Bulgaria almost has a border with Kosovo doesn't it , sort of seperated by something . That something must be the route for the drugs eh , so that means that Serbia is full of drug smugglers , damn serbians they are all drug dealers .
Of course kosovo isn't the only one, but it very important link. There is no Greek/Kosovan border, I never said theres is :inquisitive:, where did you see that ? But two countries between Kosovo and Greece are Macedonia and Albania, which both have very well organized Albanian mafia branches. Kosovo is being used as an organizing point because of almost non-existant state control and sympathetic view toward most drug lords since they, in no small part, financed terrorist groups before 1999.
I never said that there aren't drug dealers in Serbia and that a portion of it doesn't pass through Serbia. Why are you putting words in my mouth? You're refuting arguments I never made. But compared to Kosovo drugs that pass through Serbia is insignificant, unless you use HoreTore's dumpster analogy and lump everything together.
And I never said "Albanians", I said Kosovo, so your remark "all serbs are drug dealers" is totally inappropriate. I have never assigned attributes to nations or even parts of nations. I reserve that for individuals. Maybe it's enough for you to read the name of a Balkan country under some user location to label him/her a nationalist, but I have never done that and never will, thank you very much. When I remember how many times I was labelled a nationalist, terrorist, fascist and were generally pissed on just because I'm from Serbia, I'm suprised that I still have the patience to explain that stuff to people. So cut elementary school psychology, please.
Quote:
Its exactly the same as what some people are saying about Kosovo , if it is true for Kosovo then it is true for Serbia . Unless of course it it is absolute nonsense in both cases .
So Sarmatian which is it ? true in both cases or nonsense in both cases ?
It's nonsense in both cases. I never said that Kosovo Albanians should go to Albania! You really need to stop putting words in my mouth. Please read through the thread again and qoute me where I said it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
But it is , both were created and have come and gone and come and gone with the changes of time , both have had changes in population , both have existed in various forms comprising of varying territory .
When has Kosovo "come and gone"? :laugh4: The closest thing Kosovo had to "coming" was being a turkish vilayet during ottoman occupation...
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
I never said that Kosovo Albanians should go to Albania! You really need to stop putting words in my mouth.
Where did I say that it was you who said it ?
The post you refer to has quotes from 3 people , was it a quote from you ?
No
Did I say it was a quote from you ?
No
So perhaps you need to read the post and stop putting words in my mouth :yes:
Quote:
So cut elementary school psychology, please.
OK , but only if you can manage some elementary school reading so you don't get yourself confused again .
Quote:
Of course kosovo isn't the only one, but it very important link.
Thats a quote from you :2thumbsup: , which is different from your first statement about it which seemed very certain ,and different again from your follow up statement which seemed less certain , shall we carry on until there is nothing of certainty left from your initial statement on that particular issue ?
Quote:
When has Kosovo "come and gone"? The closest thing Kosovo had to "coming" was being a turkish vilayet during ottoman occupation...
Funny that , Kosovo has been a province of many countries and empires , with ever shifting boundries , even as a vilayet of the Ottoman Empire its boundaries changed with changing times .
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Where did I say that it was you who said it ?
The post you refer to has quotes from 3 people , was it a quote from you ?
No
Did I say it was a quote from you ?
No
So perhaps you need to read the post and stop putting words in my mouth :yes: .
In that post where you said that, you were only qouting me. There were no 3 people. You qouted what I have said, and then responded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
OK , but only if you can manage some elementary school reading so you don't get yourself confused again .
See above
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Thats a quote from you :2thumbsup: , which is different from your first statement about it which seemed very certain ,and different again from your follow up statement which seemed less certain , shall we carry on until there is nothing of certainty left from your initial statement on that particular issue ?
No... I used the term biggest entry point very loosely, as Kosovo can't be the actual entry point since its landlocked. I meant it is the place from which the distribution was organized,
So, my level of certainty only waivered when it came to the term "entry point", is may have not meant exactly what I wanted to say.
Since you insist, I'll have to to provide some sources:
Parts of the text from Italian newspaper (1998)
"Milan at this juncture has become a crossroads of interests for many fighting groups," a detective with the ROS explained. "These groups include also the Albanians from Kosovo who are among the most dangerous traffickers in drugs and in arms. They are determined men, violent and prepared to go to any lengths. They are capable of coming up with men and arms in a matter of hours. They have deep roots in civil society. They love luxury, fashionable clubs, and restaurants. They have an astonishing amount of ready cash at their disposal. Every night, to keep in practice, they burgle apartments and businesses, moving from one city in Lombardy to the next." whole text
Part of the text from Washington Times (1999)
"The KLA's involvement in drug smuggling as a means of raising funds for weapons is long-standing. Intelligence documents show it has aligned itself with an extensive organized crime network in Albania that smuggles heroin to buyers throughout Western Europe and the United States. Drug agents in five countries believe the cartel is one of the most powerful heroin smuggling organizations in the world." whole text
Part of the text by Peter Klebnikov:
"The benefits of the drug trade are evident around Pristina -- more so than Western aid. "The new buildings, the better roads, and the sophisticated weapons -- many of these have been bought by drugs," says Michel Koutouzis, the Balkans region expert for the Global Drugs Monitor (OGD), a Paris-based think tank. The repercussions of this drug connection are only now emerging, and many Kosovo observers fear that the province could be evolving into a virtual narco-state under the noses of 49,000 peacekeeping troops.
For hundreds of years, Kosovar Albanian smugglers have been among the world's most accomplished dealers in contraband, aided by a propitious geography of isolated ports and mountainous villages. Virtually every stage of the Balkan heroin business, from refining to end-point distribution, is directed by a loosely knit hierarchy known as "The 15 Families," who answer to the regional clans that run every aspect of Albanian life. " whole text
So this pretty much is what I was trying to say. The route is going through numerous Balkan countries, but it is organized from Kosovo and in that sense Kosovo is the biggest entry point for drugs in Europe. Keep in mind that those text are from almost a decade ago. The situation is even worse now, since those who were then KLA terrorists and drug dealers are now politicians... Finding these texts took me about 10 seconds - I just typed in kosovo drugs in google and clicked on a first few links. Now imagine what would a search of about 10 minutes yield...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Funny that , Kosovo has been a province of many countries and empires , with ever shifting boundries , even as a vilayet of the Ottoman Empire its boundaries changed with changing times .
You were comparing Kosovo and Serbia. Kosovo Polje (serbian - Field of Blackbirds) is a geographical term like Alps, or the Great Lakes. Kosovo vilayet was just one of many administrative divisions in ottoman empire, there wasn't anything special about it. Kosovo just gave the name to that particular vilayet. The only connection between the geographical area of Kosovo and Kosovo vilayet is the name. Vilayet encompassed much greater territory than Kosovo Polje. Kosovo as a political entity appears for the first time in the 20th century...
So, no - Kosovo wasn't some kind of a province or a political entity that was conquered by Serbs and than later Ottomans (and btw, that's only two, not "numerous countries and empires").
Serbia and Kosovo aren't comparable. The former is a national stateoriginating in the early middle ages and the latter is a geographical term originating in the early middle ages.
Very nice text if you want to learn more on the subject.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
In that post where you said that, you were only qouting me. There were no 3 people. You qouted what I have said, and then responded.
Here read this very slowly follow the steps to see if you can comprehend , it isn't hard to do .
1 a quoteIf they want their own state, they should go to Albania.
a response If Serbs want their own State they should go to Serbia , after all they only emigrated and had children
2 You then quote If Serbs want their own State they should go to Serbia , after all they only emigrated and had children
and respond What are you talking about???
3 a quote What are you talking about???
and a response Its exactly the same as what some people are saying about Kosovo , if it is true for Kosovo then it is true for Serbia . Unless of course it it is absolute nonsense in both cases .
So Sarmatian which is it ? true in both cases or nonsense in both cases ?
4 then comesI never said that Kosovo Albanians should go to Albania! You really need to stop putting words in my mouth.
See the problem :idea2: you took a question in stage 3 , applied it to stage 1 and said you never said it , you were not asked if you had made that nonsense statement , you were asked if it was nonsense .
You managed in your own mind to associate a nonsense statement with your own .
Quote:
Since you insist, I'll have to to provide some sources:
Look at that first article you use ....
Quote:
Milan at this juncture has become a crossroads of interests for many fighting groups
many groups eh ...in Italy , that doesn't really back up your claim does it ...
Quote:
These groups include also the Albanians from Kosovo who are among the most dangerous traffickers in drugs and in arms.
So these groups also include Albanians from Kosovo!!!! hmmmm... does it say they are the main ones ? But hey they are among the most dangerous !!! so does that mean they share a place among the dangerous with the Mafia , the Triads or them really really dangerous buggers from Russia .
On to the second ...
Quote:
Drug agents in five countries believe the cartel is one of the most powerful heroin smuggling organizations in the world."
..once again its amongst not THE .
So onto two more statements from yourself
Quote:
No... I used the term biggest entry point very loosely, as Kosovo can't be the actual entry point since its landlocked. I meant it is the place from which the distribution was organized,
Quote:
The route is going through numerous Balkan countries, but it is organized from Kosovo and in that sense Kosovo is the biggest entry point for drugs in Europe.
Nope , I am afraid you are wrong again , you will find that it is nice exclusive luxury developments in Spain from which it is organised , with a small sideline in Northen Cyprus for those who got unlucky with law enforcement agencies .
But its OK Sarmatian , I know you just tried to be specific in a claim that can only really be a very very loose generalisation , but you know ....very very loose generalisations don't manage to have the same impact at getting your message across .
Nice demonstrations in Belgrade BTW , I did like that crowd with the funny gesture , you know the sort of strange lifting of a straight right arm with the hand extended , are they copying Donald Duck in that old cartoon ?
Quote:
and btw, that's only two, not "numerous countries and empires"
And BTW did you forget about the Romans , the byzantines ,the Bulgarians and that place called yugoslavia ....or would you like me to add some more ?
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Here read this very slowly follow the steps to see if you can comprehend , it isn't hard to do .
1 a quoteIf they want their own state, they should go to Albania.
a response If Serbs want their own State they should go to Serbia , after all they only emigrated and had children
2 You then quote If Serbs want their own State they should go to Serbia , after all they only emigrated and had children
and respond What are you talking about???
3 a quote What are you talking about???
and a response Its exactly the same as what some people are saying about Kosovo , if it is true for Kosovo then it is true for Serbia . Unless of course it it is absolute nonsense in both cases .
So Sarmatian which is it ? true in both cases or nonsense in both cases ?
4 then comesI never said that Kosovo Albanians should go to Albania! You really need to stop putting words in my mouth.
See the problem :idea2: you took a question in stage 3 , applied it to stage 1 and said you never said it , you were not asked if you had made that nonsense statement , you were asked if it was nonsense .
You managed in your own mind to associate a nonsense statement with your own .
Ok. I asked you to explain your statement and instead of explaining that it was nonsense and you just said as an answer to another ridiculous statement, you continued arguing with me as if I said the original statement. But, ok let's call it a misunderstanding.
Quote:
Look at that first article you use ....
Maybe this backs up my claim better:
From the guardian (2000)
International agencies fighting the drug trade are warning that Kosovo has become a "smugglers' paradise" supplying up to 40% of the heroin sold in Europe and North America. whole text
National Post (2000)
The chaos created by 10 years of war in the Balkans has been a bonanza for the Kosovo Albanians, who control 40% of Europe's heroin trade -- their profits are thought to have helped fund last year's war. If they were to return home, there would be little the cash-starved and understaffed UN mission could do to control the movement of drugs and guns.
another text (2007)
Statistics speak for themselves: 19,500 Kosovo Albanians are clogging German jails for selling drugs; 2,500 Kosovo Albanians are in Swiss jail for selling drugs; Hungarian anti-mafia chief Djerd Hološi says Albanians control 80% of Hungarian drugs; Czech's attribute 70% of drug distribution to Kosovo Albanians...
Another one (this one doesn't show the date)"
This is a development that has strengthened the Albanian mafia which is now thought to control 70% of the illegal heroin market in Germany and Switzerland.
And yet another one(2000)
The tentacles of the Albanian mafia stretch across Europe. According to Interpol, Albanian-speaking drug dealers accounted for 14% of those arrested for heroin smuggling in 1997. While the average trafficker was apprehended with two grams of heroin, the Albanians had an average of 120 grams in their possession. Scandinavian countries claim that Albanians control 80% of the heroin market there. Switzerland says 90% of the drug trafficking in that country is connected to Albanians. German law enforcement agencies claim that Albanians form the largest group involved in heroin trafficking.
German Federal Police now say that Kosovo Albanians import 80 percent of Europe’s heroin. So dominant is the Kosovo Albanian presence in trafficking that many European users refer to illicit drugs in general as “Albanka”, or Albanian lady.
Wrong again? Can it be that German police, DEA, Czech police, Hungarian police, Scandinavian police etc... are all wrong and only you are right?
Quote:
Nice demonstrations in Belgrade BTW , I did like that crowd with the funny gesture , you know the sort of strange lifting of a straight right arm with the hand extended , are they copying Donald Duck in that old cartoon ?
I didn't see the demonstrations in Belgrade, what happened? And anyway, considering how Serbs are touchy when it comes to Kosovo, I'd be very happy if it all ends with a several demonstrations.
Quote:
And BTW did you forget about the Romans , the byzantines ,the Bulgarians and that place called yugoslavia ....or would you like me to add some more ?
Pretty much everything that we associate with Kosovo today dates back to the early middle ages and medieval serbian state. Economic development started back than, rise of the population, cultural development, the ares got its name... everything. Kosovo may have been ruled by neanderthals or aliens at one point but that is pointless for our discussion here.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
I want to congratulate the people of Kosovo for formally taking their own independence. I hope that it works out for them, though I have an aweful feeling that it won't.
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Yes , look at the dates of all but one of your articles .
What was the year that the EU began put the money and effort into Greece to effect the Western Balkans route ?
Was it before or after all but one of those articles ?
But at least you are being clearer now . It isn't the drug trade as such it is the herion trade specificly .
As I said earlier , that has shifted North both as a result of the EU efforts , very major changes in the production countries , and of course the accession of new states to the EU .
Quote:
Pretty much everything that we associate with Kosovo today dates back to the early middle ages and medieval serbian state. Economic development started back than, rise of the population, cultural development, the ares got its name... everything. Kosovo may have been ruled by neanderthals or aliens at one point but that is pointless for our discussion here.
But it isn't pointless , it demonstrates that the region known as Kosovo has not always been a province of Serbia , neither has it had constant borders , it has changed "ownership" and it has had shitfing majorities for many hundreds of years .
Here try this for size .
I live in a country that never existed until it existed , it never had the name it has until it had the name it has , it certainly didn't have the borders it has because ...well because it didn't exist .
Should it exist as an independant country ?
There were a lot of people who said it shouldn't , a lot of people who claimed historic precedence as to why it shouldn't , even a lot of people who make the same sort of claims about its inhabitants as are being made about Kosovos inhabitants .
Quote:
I didn't see the demonstrations in Belgrade, what happened? And anyway, considering how Serbs are touchy when it comes to Kosovo, I'd be very happy if it all ends with a several demonstrations.
I too hope that it amounts to no more than demonstrations , but I ain't very optimistic about it .
What I was saying about the demos was just a little dig . It was a big crowd but there was a smaller part of the crowd who really wanted to make sure they got in camera as much as possible , the distictive flags they carried and the salutes they gave showed that small portion of the crowd to be complete arseholes . I would post a link to their website , but those links tend to get me warning points here .
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Yes , look at the dates of all but one of your articles .
What was the year that the EU began put the money and effort into Greece to effect the Western Balkans route ?
Was it before or after all but one of those articles ?
Well, you're right in a sense. But Greece is only one link. Keep in mind that Albania also has a costline and that a port of Durres is getting more and more activity.
Quote:
But at least you are being clearer now . It isn't the drug trade as such it is the herion trade specificly .
As I said earlier , that has shifted North both as a result of the EU efforts , very major changes in the production countries , and of course the accession of new states to the EU .
Heroin among other things. There is a lot of marijuana too, and I guess cocaine too, since Albanian cartels are cooperating more and more with Columbian. But I really don't know what's the ratio of heroine/cocaine/marijuana in the overall drug trade of Kosovo. But heroine is probably the biggest part, since the route Afghanistan - Turkey - Kosovo - western Europe is the most active
The problem is that it is much easier to get in and out of Kosovo after 1999. KFOR and UNMIK aren't really interested to deal with the drug trafficking. Even if they were, they don't have the resources or the main power. Chief Kosovo politicians are mostly a part of the drug bussines, since they are mostly ex KLA leaders who were either financed by drug trade, or were involved directly.
Quote:
But it isn't pointless , it demonstrates that the region known as Kosovo has not always been a province of Serbia , neither has it had constant borders , it has changed "ownership" and it has had shitfing majorities for many hundreds of years .
Here try this for size .
I live in a country that never existed until it existed , it never had the name it has until it had the name it has , it certainly didn't have the borders it has because ...well because it didn't exist .
Should it exist as an independant country ?
There were a lot of people who said it shouldn't , a lot of people who claimed historic precedence as to why it shouldn't , even a lot of people who make the same sort of claims about its inhabitants as are being made about Kosovos inhabitants .
This requires a very complex answer and unfortunately, I haven't got the time right now. I will get back to you on this issue.
Quote:
I too hope that it amounts to no more than demonstrations , but I ain't very optimistic about it .
What I was saying about the demos was just a little dig . It was a big crowd but there was a smaller part of the crowd who really wanted to make sure they got in camera as much as possible , the distictive flags they carried and the salutes they gave showed that small portion of the crowd to be complete arseholes . I would post a link to their website , but those links tend to get me warning points here .
It won't go further than demonstrations, I'm 100% sure. But there will be other, political responses. I'm certain that Serbia won't recognize Kosovo as an independent state, and will treat it as a part of its territory which currently under occupation. Kosovo will never be able to integrate into the region without the support of Serbia. And I'm afraid that it's not going to get it, probably ever... So we are looking at a very long time of EU and US nursing
-
Re: Things heating up...(Kosovo)
Quote:
But heroine is probably the biggest part, since the route Afghanistan - Turkey - Kosovo - western Europe is the most active
There you go again , this all came up a while ago when Krook said Poland was going to get flooded with drugs from Holland , the herion trade is shifting north .
That was why I pointed out the dates on your links .
You are right about the marajuana though , UNMIK has made a lot of siezures of home grown Kosovan weed , which brings us to ....
Quote:
KFOR and UNMIK aren't really interested to deal with the drug trafficking.
Drug trafficing is one of UNMIKs missions isn't it , together with other smuggling , moneylaundering , tax evasion , illegal weapons ...which all are part of the business package of your average drug baron .
