Beta 2B will be out this week. And...This sounds very RPG'y- should be interesting...Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
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Beta 2B will be out this week. And...This sounds very RPG'y- should be interesting...Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Enjoyed Beta 2A and so far latest city changes seem good...but why are there no swords for custom sovereign? Its silly with some of the clearly sword poses there and you're holding a club!
yeah, the extent to which some areas are not complete/in the pre-order beta can be frustrating, but that's what we signed up for. I was particualrily frustrated by the lack of metal to mine in the 2A map...Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusader
I'm finding 2-B rather difficult/trying. It's the first time I've ever dabbled with magic and although I had understood it might allow an alternative route to the usual harvest, mine, manufacture -I've not got that far yet. Not even being able to research & build farms restricts city growth and building -so it's ahrder to get a shard to mine.
Bring on Beta 3. In his recent posts, Brad seems to be confident of meeting the August release date...
Also, I believe your portrait reflects whatever equipment you're currently using. If you replace the club with a sword once you start adventuring, your portrait should update accordingly. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusader
I understand their current development builds are quite a bit different than ours, but man it seems like there's still alot to do in so short a time. :sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by alh_p
Edit: I think Beta3 is out today. Here's the changelog.
Yeah, Brad's been mentioning August 24th... We've not seen Multiplayer or tactical battles yet... My guess is much will be added in "free updates" post release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
And Beta 3 is now OUT, my install had an available update on Impulse when I checked this morning.
Beta4 is out now. Based on the short time I've spent with it, it's finally starting to play like a game- that is, it's enjoyable and cohesive. Tactical battles are looking pretty good too.
Yep, definitley. I'm happy to say it seems very much more complete than I expected. It's been fun!
Edit:
While the above may be true, we (pre-order beta players) are still in for suprises:
"Now, I do regret that those of you playing beta 4 will not easily recognize the final game. I mean that literally. The final game will look quite a bit different in terms of UI and gameplay. There are good reasons to hold back on this stuff until as late as possible."
Also (in the same post), in Europe the game will only be available (as of 24th August) by direct download. Elsewhere there will be box versions for sale in most retailers it seems.
I have to admit, I am sort of holding off on the game, as I wasn't too impressed with the issues I had in the beta. (mainly their anti-piracy ones which conflicted with my connection type)
Why hold off? You already bought it.:beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
hold off, as in, waiting for the finished product. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
Then I can give the game another chance, especially as I can't refund it. (damn Stardock)
If you've not really got involved up till now and aren't feeling the urge to do so, I'd guess even Stardock would urge you to wait till release (and the day 0 patch!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Throughout the process, they've been very clear that it's not the final product which is available for pre-order beta testing and the section i quoted above goes further to demonstrate that what is finaly released will be different even to beta 4.
Yeah, I mean only able to play the Beta unless I was at my parents, and all these other issues just compounded issue upon issue. Didn't help that I found using Impulse really awkward as well. I prefer to keep my games and files together and seperate, and Impulse installed everything, everywhere.
It looked okay when I got it to work, but it being in Beta wasn't the best either.
That's completely customizable. You just have to look at your settings. You can specify installation directories, temp file directories, ect..Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Personally, I really like Impulse. But, the best thing about it (compared to more popular digital distribution platforms) is that once the game is installed, you never need to run Impulse again.
I know I really shouldn't be surprised, or have expected much in the first place, but this really does sound like Horse poo:
Elemental, Destiny's Embers
I just hope it has minimal impact on the game, although the most recent Dev journals are all about adding material from the book to the game. Were I 15, i suspect I might have been a little more enthusisastic, but the product description makes really does a bad job of making the book sound original or even interesting.
Perhaps I'm being unkind, Brad's talents certainly lie in code writing -perhaps not book writing.
2 weeks to go now for the game to be released...
I think I've heard of that story a thousand times already....
Eh- it sounds like it could be an entertaining read, even if it doesn't win awards for originality. Really, it's a book for fans of the game who want more color and backstory to it. :shrug:Quote:
Product Description
At a frontier outpost on the fringes of the civilized world, an orphaned messenger named Xander witnesses the destruction of all he knows at the hands of the Fallen, the great enemy thought vanquished during the War of Magic.
Abruptly, Xander’s life is changed forever. Now he must seek out an ancient artifact of legendary power in the hopes that it can stop the Fallen hordes from destroying the entire kingdom. Little does he realize that the hope of all mankind rests on his young shoulders, as powers of unimaginable might set out to stop him at all costs.
Aided by his friend Genica, a mysterious thief named Vreen, and a crafty Sion of unknown loyalty, Xander journeys into the heart of the world, where long-hidden secrets will be revealed that could shatter the delicate balance established by the great Cataclysm a thousand years earlier.
As to effect on the game, I've heard that the book will contain a code that can be used to unlock a bonus mini-campaign based on characters in the book.
Man, I can't wait for this. Only a couple more weeks til I receive my Limited Edition copy. Woot! :beam:
Seriously, I am really looking forward to it. I've wanted a Civ-style 4x fantasy strategy game for a long time now, and Elemental looks like it's going to hit all my "sweet spots".
That's correct; at least, Frogboy (Brad Wardell) himself has said as much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
Not sure if I'll be getting the novel or not. I've found Brad's pretty good when it comes to backstory material for his games, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a decent book.
Is he related to a certain other froggy? :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Martok
If he is, I suspect it would come as a huge surprise to them both. ~;)
I'm looking forward to it but I'm also kind of swamped. Finishing off an ME2 Sentinel campaign on Hardcore, ascending the learning curve in Vicky and Starcraft is installed although i've not even started a single mission yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
Anyone know if they're going to release a boxed retail version in the UK? I know several US groups are selling it but I can't find the game listed anywhere on UK online shops and the game's official site is not very helpful. The price on Impulse is much too high - £10 more than I'd expect to pay for a PC game! That's the standard edition. If I can't find a cheaper alternative I'll have to pass until impulse run a half price sale or something.
The short answer is, "I don't know." From what I've read so far, though, I'm admittedly not very optimistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
I don't know how much (if any) you've read of the discussions regarding the game's availability in Europe, but Stardock has already said that -- with the exception of Russia -- they won't be selling Elemental in European brick-and-mortar stores (as it isn't worth the cost of doing so). Supposedly the boxed version will be available via online shops, but that will likely involve extra shipping charges (since it'll probably be shipping from here in the States).
To add to the confusion, however, there seems to be some uncertainty over whether "Europe" in this instance includes the UK. So whether that means Brits might still be able to purchased the boxed version or not is still a bit up in the air. Personally, I wouldn't bet on it, but I'd love to be wrong.
Just to be certain, however, I've put in a specific query on the Elemental forums regarding your question. The guys at Stardock are usually pretty good about replying in a prompt manner, so we'll probably know -- one way or the other -- within the next 24-48 hours.
They said in a developper diary that DD was the only way to get the game in europe...Quote:
Originally Posted by alh_p
Apparently my registration isn't valid anymore, am I supposed to do something special before I can play?
nvm: it's not release day yet, my bad.
Thanks. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
The answer's been posted: no.
I wonder why? AFAIK the boxed versions of GalCiv2 did well here. [suspicious]Unless they want to cut out the supply of cheaper copies which others in Europe then import? Since the pound went down our websites have reportedly been selling tonnes of games to Europeans taking advantage of the exchange rate.[/suspicious]Quote:
Originally Posted by Alh_p
Looks like no Elemental for froggy. I know it's a big game with a long lifespan in a relatively niche genre, but so is Victoria 2 and Civ 5, and both are easy to find for £24.99 or less. I can't justify paying so much, especially not when it feels like the price is artificially inflated. Roll on the sales ...
Who was the European publisher for hardcopy Sins of a Solar Empire? Stardock is a little weird with publishing/distribution outside the US, with Demigod they were the US publisher and either Atari or Take2 did the international. I think GalCiv2 was done by Paradox internationally. Maybe they just don't want to get involved with international brick/mortar distrib.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
According to Amazon.uk it was Kalypso media. A quick check of most stardock games shows that Kalypso puiblished them, including the later editions of GalCiv2. Demigod is listed with Namco as the publisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
I forgot that they used other parties to publish so recently; my version of Sins was the 'pre-order online and get download plus boxed copy in the post' version and it's got their stamp on the box. The pricing back then was a lot saner. Demigod wasn't my kind of thing at all so I pretty much ignored it. The GalCiv2 expansions I got with the download+disc set up, and again Stardock is styled as the publisher. So I thought they'd gone that way as standard after GalCiv2's original release.
Still, I wonder why there's no UK publisher? Games which are an awful lot more obscure and niche find publishers. Kalypso are still around and appear to be doing well; why not reprise the relationship?
In the Euro distrib thread on the Elemental forums, there are the following responses:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryo
And in the journal linked above:Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogboy
Sounds like they are just fed up with the retail hassle in Europe, doesn't look like they make much on the sales anyway. I wonder how much visibility the game will miss if it's not an impulse (pun intended) buy on the shelves in a High street shop. And clueless parents buying games for their kids will be a missed demographic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Draginol
Brad recently posted that the retail situation in Europe has gotten so ridiculous the last several years, that it's simply not worth it for Stardock to sell their games in brick-and-mortar stores over there anymore.
Apparently European distributors now demand such a huge chunk of the profits that on a $50.00 game (or whatever its equivalent in euros is -- I've no idea what the exchange rate is currently), Stardock literally sees less than 5% ($1.00-$2.00) of that. (To compare, they receive roughly 30% of the take from retail sales here in the U.S. & Canada.) Brad & Co. decided that was unacceptable and they weren't going to put up with it anymore, especially in light of their continuing success with digital download sales on Impulse.
Personally, I'm not sure I agree with their decision on this. I understand and respect the reasons behind it, but I still feel it may be a mistake.
EDIT: Heh. Ninja'ed by drone. ~;p
Oh, and in case anyone is wondering, "Frogboy" and "Draginol" are Brad Wardell's forum names.
*raise from the grave*
Hello!
Well, I am looking at buying this one. I was a MoM player and although FFH2 (Civ IV mod) is doing a decent job, it does not quite cut it compared to MoM and potentially this Elemental war of Magic... Multiple reasons for that: no leader customization, no tactical battle, not enough global spells...
The other one I am looking at but could never get myself to play is Dominion 3.
Quick feedback will be appreciated.
Good luck, and have fun!
Louis,
Other companies manage to make it worthwhile. Bizarre. :shrug:
$50 = £33 roughly. Fractionally cheaper than the RRP (£34.99 - £39.99) for most new PC games in today's inflated times but with the key difference that very, very few of those PC games ever sell for anything like their RRP. You have to be something massive like Starcraft 2 to avoid the instant mark down.
The download only version of Elemental costs the same as the download+boxed copy option. How does that make sense? Make the download only version cheaper, leave the box+download version as it is, and there we go.
At least the game will have been heavily patched if/when I do pick it up. If it's anything like GalCiv2 lots of features and tweaks will be added, as well as the usual fixes.
Draginol is also Brad? I did not know that. Granted I have only really lurked the Demigod forums. :shifty:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
The "instant mark down" is a big part of it, I think. Here in the states, retail games have generally sold at the RRP for quite a while unless they really suck. DD may be affecting this now though, with the sales and discounts they offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
@Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe: Welcome back! Long time no see. ~:cheers:
I know. And like I said, I have my doubts about Stardock's decision, regardless of how justified they feel they might be (or even actually *are*, for that matter). I realize that as a PC-only game shop -- and still a relatively small one, at that -- they probably simply lack the necessary clout that larger publishers enjoy, but I still wonder about the wisdom of writing off almost an entire continent.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Ideally, I'd love to see Stardock expand to have its own, full-blown operations in Europe as well as NA so that they don't have to deal with third-party distributors in the first place. Of course, that would almost certainly require a significant investment/expenditure in both capital and time....and I'm guessing Brad would be (understandably) reluctant to take such a huge risk.
Still not happy about their decision, though. I understand it, but I don't have to like it.
Interesting. Over here, AAA PC titles -- regardless of pedigree -- usually don't get marked down until they either get an expansion pack and/or it's been at least a year or two since it was released. (Games can also be marked down if they're truly awful, although that's somewhat less common.) Hopefully the expanding digital-download market will eventually change that, but for now the American computer gamer is stuck with relatively high prices at retail.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
As a matter of fact, it *doesn't* make sense. This is another case of where Stardock suffers from being a smaller publisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
They're essentiallybulliedforced into charging the same price for both versions by the major chains (Gamestop, Wal Mart, Best Buy, etc.). If Stardock were to charge less for their DD-only version, the major chains would refuse to carry their games. Valve/Vivendi gets away with it on Steam because they're a lot bigger and have a lot more influence in the industry. I dearly wish matters were otherwise, but there it is. :shame:
Almost certainly. :yes: GalCiv2, while a good game, was greatly improved over the first year it was out, and I've no doubt it will be the same with Elemental.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Heh; don't feel too bad. I didn't realize that at first either, and I was hanging around the original GalCiv1 forums way back in the day. (Heck, at one point I was under the misconception that Brad and Cari Beagle ("CariElf" on the forums) were married!) :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
I still think it's going to be a few more years before the digital download market really starts having a major impact on retail prices/sales. I *do* believe it'll happen, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
I ordered Starcraft 2 months in advance on Amazon, so I only got it for £21. A big saving over its later price tag of £37 or whatever it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
I see it at 39.29€ on Impulse, which is really ok I think - although I know little about PC game pricing, I haven't bought a PC game in ages! I guess you're hurt by the exchange rate... Join the Eurozone! :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Regarding price and distribution channel... I guess distribution chanel (in this case US retail) makes it very clear for Stardock that the price they have got to be the same or cheapest than digital download. Otherwise, bye bye retail! I am not 100% sure that Stardock can lower DD price without facing massive retribution from its retailer.
Louis,
RRP for any new PC game: 89.16 USD or 57.41 GBPQuote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Console game is 10 AUD more sometimes. (extra 5 pounds or 9 USD)
You could get starcraft 2 if you were lucky (like 200 copies australia wide) at 39.63 GBP/ 61.55USD (69AUD)
When they sold out, lucky to get it at $89 AUD. I bought it from blizzard's online store at $89AUD...
Complain about PC pricing when you pay as much as us. :laugh4:
I refuse to buy Starcraft 2 as I'm not paying £40 for a pc game, I wouldn't pay more than £30.
Since it only costs £35 from Amazon, where is your £40 price tag from? It hasn't hit £40 yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja'chyra
Which makes sense for America, and not for the rest of the world. There's nothing to stop then doing what all of the other download services do, and set individual prices for different territories. In this case for once (once!) we non-Americans might end up with the better end of the deal instead of the usual price hike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
That's the thing - if all PC games were this price there wouldn't be a problem at all. Because they're not it brings relative value into play for anyone who doesn't have a big games budget. What does Elemental offer that makes it worth so much extra compared to, say, Civ 5? The answer is nothing much.Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
It's a particularly bad time for Stardock to ask people to make this judgement. There's a lot of new strategy games out this summer, including two giant names and one popular niche title. These are the kind of games that people play for a long time after purchase; they're not 10 hour and done forever jobs where an owner would be considering a new title relatively soon after purchase.
Elemental is going to miss out on a lot of potential sales. For a game that's not destined to be a multi-million best seller that's not a good place to be headed.
Anywho, enough about pricing. There's more exciting things to talk about - the game's out early.
The bricks and mortar shops broke street date so the download version is going up early too. There doesn't seem to be an ETA for the download becoming available, just a note that it will be done as soon as possible. If you've pre-ordered I'd open Impulse up and see if it finds anything.
The shopQuote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
I agree, viewed in a vacuum of non-competiton -i.e. ignoring CIV5's release in a month, I can see why Stardock by kept EU sales to DD and at higher price -they are an Indie developer with their own DD system after all. But clearly, having 2 city builder titles out so close together is going to force a fair degree of competition. I hope they have diversified Elemental from Civ enough for it to be seen as something other than fantasy CIV. From stardock's point of view, at least they are releasing Elemental before CIV5, if it were the other way round, I think they would suffer more than they likely will.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
I didn't check this morning before going to work, but I received an email yesterday informing me that I would be able to download the game today. There probably isn't much point checking before 12 or 1pm BST though as I think Impulse only updates at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
On the Stardock forum, they said the decision to allow early access to pre-orders was to assuage the pressure on their servers come release day. :shrug:
I started downloading it last night. I didn't get to see if I could play yet or not though. After I get home from work, I'll definitely be taking a look. :yes:
Got it. Right now I have this to say: do not buy this game for its MP. Tac battles, quests and probably other features as well have been taken out of release version MP. *sigh* Looks like Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic is still the best MoM'esque game for multiplayer.
They're putting tactical battles back in MP due to the overwhelmingly negative response the decision recieved on the forums. They claimed they did it to keep up the pace of MP.
No time for any detailed impressions yet.... I got to spend a little time with the "campaign"(story) mode, but it's been reworked some for the day 0 release, which I haven't looked at yet. The version I played was ok, but rather uninspired. It kept my interest, but I think the main point was to introduce you to the game. The real substance is probably in sandbox and MP modes. Regardless, I think the final game engine looks beautiful.
Been trying my hand at the sandbox mode to learn the ropes...have to say its changed much since beta. Can build farms, libraries etc without needing the knowledge and no watchtowers or barracks either. Also they've removed farms, so took some minutes until I realized I could only get food from special bonus tiles or from irrigation at level 2 city :S
But is there a cap for how many cities you can have? Built 4 so far and I'm not allowed to build a fifth. Also, see sovereigns can only build the capital and Essence plays no part.
So far it seems good enough, but I actually miss some small stuff from beta.
Sounds liek you are going back to beta3a or something like that. there have definitley been a few chanegs since then. The only way to "get" resources of any kind (even tech and archane research) is through special tiles, e.g. wheat, mineable rock and "old growth trees". There are a couple of buildings that provide "1" research or minerals but they are only there to start you up really. Success or failure comes in controling tiles on the map, which is done by building cities and expanding their influence (which is automatic and happens as they grow, as in CIV4).Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusader
Incidentaly, I would probably advise people to hold off buying the game for a bit. Many who have waited till now and didn't take the plunge during the beta seem quite disappointed, to say the least. I felt the same as many of these people did with ETW (I had hoped to buy a polished game) so I sympathise. On my system (Win7 64), it's actually not as stable as beta 4 was...
It’s like watching the Demigod release all over again. I'm reading impressions on various places and while I see some good news I see plenty more bugs, missing features, complaints about an obtuse interface and a lack of in-game feedback on how things are working and why, calculation problems, and things which are blatantly not what they were advertised to be.
The random map issue alone has me wondering what Stardock were thinking. It's not a random map generator, no matter how hard they insist it is. Stardock themselves admit it uses a small collection of seeds to shuffle resources around a small selection of pre-built maps. The reason I saw Brad give for this is that it's hard to build a random map generator. Decade old games have solid random map generators built in, as did GalCiv2, and the 5 year old Civ4 has the random map generator to rule all; the mind boggles. More pre-built maps will be added later, supposedly. That doesn't really fix the problem and it's a massive negative IMO against the game's lifespan.
Meanwhile the gamer's bill of rights has been removed from Stardock's website. For those who don't remember the bill of rights included a section about how all games should be released complete, amongst other things like the right for a refund if a game doesn't work.
I hope they can fix this one. I really wanted it to be good; I love the genre and I loved GalCiv 2.
Man, just when you thought you found a developer with a philosophy you could use to beat up nastier developers with...Quote:
Meanwhile the gamer's bill of rights has been removed from Stardock's website. For those who don't remember the bill of rights included a section about how all games should be released complete, amongst other things like the right for a refund if a game doesn't work.
Huh. The bill of rights thing has started a sub-war in the sea of turmoil that is Elemental commentary. People are insisting that nothing changed; some of the more ... colourful personages suggest that it's all a conspiracy to make stardock look bad. Meanwhile others continue to insist that the site's gone.
Before posting the above I checked the rumour myself. It's gone. That is, the version on stardock's own site is gone. That version is the first links you get when you google 'stardock gamer's bill of rights'. The bill's own stand-alone website remains. I found it only by following the link given by one of the people insisting that it was still up.
The state of the game is subject to a similar war of opinion. I say war because it's really getting quite nasty out there and there's increasingly little middle ground. Supposedly the version burned onto retail discs and released on Impulse is not the final game. It's an unfinished version, possibly or possibly not intentionally buggy. I keep seeing the pro-Elemental folk mentioning an official declaration that content was ripped out of the game in order to release this version but not a single one of them has linked to or quoted the source of this info. It was supposed to be fixed up with the release day patch. That might explain a lot. It doesn't make the situation look any better - it leaves Stardock knowingly selling a bad version of the game to customers, and then releasing a bad version as a 'bonus' so people purchasing directly from them didn't lose out compared to those buying at retail. Why oh why oh why do this?! And why not get that release day patch up at the same time as the game download? It's insane! They've ensured that a lot of the early word of mouth is negative and that's often a killer.
Crazy. Whether it's got any truth in it or not, it's crazy. Crazy truth or crazy excuses.
I got the game...
It's clearly not polished on the verge of unfinished. Plenty of details missing, wrong text, clumsy UI, poor camera work etc... The way the stat works is not obvious and is a bit worrying.
However, I found it pretty stable, no crash, and the normal mode delivers. The campaign got everything I hate in a Homm kind of game, that is bad gameplay all around, and much, much less fun than the sandbox game.
It's OK. However it does not really look like it has what it takes to be MoM heir. It will need a hell of a lot of modding to get there, or incredible patching.
Louis,
Let me start out by saying that I have had no stability issues whatsoever on any of the 1.x versions- and I'm using an ATI card on Win7 64bit. The combination that is supposedly causing so many crashes. I don't doubt that people are getting crashes, but it's clearly not all ATI/64 bit combinations. :shrug:
That's really a matter of symantics. What's "finished"? If that means bug free, then no game is ever finished. However, if the retail release is broken and unplayable, that's a different matter. I can't vouch for the retail version- I don't have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
What content?Quote:
I keep seeing the pro-Elemental folk mentioning an official declaration that content was ripped out of the game in order to release this version but not a single one of them has linked to or quoted the source of this info.
I think Stardock went wrong when they released the "Pre-release" version because stores were breaking the street date. It was a good idea in theory, but most people aren't going to know that your pre-release isn't the official release and are going to judge the game based on it. They should have just kept the release date.
Similarly, I think they also made a mistake in advancing the release date to August at all. They should have kept it at early 2011- but there were probably financial reasons for that. Not having MP servers ready to go at launch looks very unprofessional. Really, I disagree with the concept of requiring their servers for MP at all. We should be able to run our own (that's coming at a later date supposedly).
Honestly, I like the game and it's only going to get better as they add free content and I certainly don't regret buying it. But I think from a marketing/PR standpoint, Stardock has made several key missteps.
Edit:I just looked at the PCGamer article that seems to be at the center of the controversy. Based on my experience, the article is a bunch of inflamatory nonsense.As I've said, I played the pre-release version's campaign for about 3 hours. I experienced zero crashes or glitches. Not one. Now obviously, not everyone would have the same experience, but to call it "appalling" is a stretch.Quote:
Elemental: War of Magic was released in some stores and for pre-order customers on Monday, a day ahead of schedule. It’s a mess. As PC gamers we’re used to launch day patches and bug fixes – that’s part and parcel of gaming on our platform. However, the scale of Elemental’s pre-patch problems is appalling and we want to warn you to stay away from the game for now.
In the context I've seen it being used in it should be taken as "Not the version stardock wanted people to be playing and judging on the official release day."Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
Your guess is as good as mine. None of the people saying it provide links or quotes, only statements about how stardock told people this was so while preparing the download non-beta version that they then put up for pre-order customers to get after the retail date was broken. The most detailed anyone has been is saying that some of the content added after the beta and intended to be in the final version were ripped out, creating bugs and crashes because of the gaping holes left in the code. These features should then be added back by the planned release day patch.Quote:
What content?
I hadn't read that, and would not be surprised if it were inaccurate. I don't pay much attention to paid reviews or journalist sites; I prefer to head to the forums and independant sites, and see what the gamers say. After all they're playing the same version as I would, play for longer than a handful of hours, have some interest in the title to begin with, and tend to be a lot more honest because there's no concern about maintaining audiences and revenues.Quote:
Edit:I just looked at the PCGamer article that seems to be at the center of the controversy. Based on my experience, the article is a bunch of inflamatory nonsense.
It's honestly rather annoying. All of the bother is growing at a rate which puts the average fast-replicating virus to shame, and is obscuring the conversation I am interested in. I want to hear how the AI is, about the not-randiom map generator, about how the game plays, that sort of thing.
Think I'm going to stop watching Elemental for a bit now; my time would be better spent playing a game than attempting to sift out useful material in all of this. I'll give it a few weeks and a couple of patches. It's not like I'll be buying it any time soon; I'm more curious as to what I'm missing out on ... or not as the case might be. I might pick up MoM from good old games for the weekend.
(Latest development is that Brad Wardell apologises for some of his comments which helped to grow this mushroom, and gives a few answers from stardock's POV)
I'd already decided a couple days ago when the uproar first started to do my level-best to steer well clear of the whole thing. It appears some people seem to be either overreacting, and/or had unrealistic expectations that the game was going to be this perfectly flawless gem right out the box. At the same time, it sounds like Stardock did in fact screw up the release in at least a couple different ways -- including how Brad reacted to some of the criticism.
I dunno. Like I said, I'm staying out of it for the time being, and am going to do my best to simply focus on the game's merits (or lack thereof). :shrug:
I do have Elemental downloaded from Impulse, but I'm waiting for my boxed LE copy to arrive before I actually sit down and play it. (Barring something untoward happening, I believe I'll be getting it tomorrow.) Soon, very soon.... :sweatdrop:
Ok, so I set aside my "Campaign" game to give the sandbox game a shot. After about 200 turns, I have noticed no crashes or major glitches. I noticed 1 research tech had the wrong description in its text- that's it....
I started out as one of the Fallen empires (I've always played a kingdom before and thought I was due for a change). I set the world size to "large", world difficulty to "normal" and there are 6 major factions -3 empires and 3 kingdoms- myself included. For 2 of the Kingdoms, I bumped their AI to "Challenging" the rest I left "normal". The choices for pacing are: "Epic", "Normal" & "Fast"- I chose "Epic".
I'm enjoying the game very much. Unfortunately, I can't really comment on the current state of the AI, since aside from 1 minor faction, I haven't yet encountered anyone. If the AI's any good at all, I'm probably going to be in trouble once I meet one of the challenging level ones. I'm building my sovereign up to be a major spell caster, but I think I may have neglected expansion too much- time will tell. I bumped into the minor faction pretty early on in the game and they were occupying some real estate I wanted. So, as soon as I researched my first offensive spell I sent my sovereign in solo. She defeated their sovereign and 2 other units in the field, forcing the sovereign back into his city. Then she defeated him and 3 other units in the assault on the city, killing him and capturing the city.
Since then, I've been trying to explore, but the areas outside my cities seem to be rife with spiders and my mana is limited and slow to regenerate. :sweatdrop:
Here's a screenie of my meager empire:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I'd really, really like to support Stardock and I really, really want to like this game, but... not only is it not finished (descriptive texts, UI, effects and so on), it's also rather badly designed. The most glaring example: for something with the grandiose title "War of Magic", the magic aspect is really underdeveloped. IMO even MoM did magic better - 16 years ago. AoW: Shadow Magic is 7 years old, and it trounces Elemental in pretty much every aspect except empire building, which really is not all that necessary in a fantasy game.
In its current state, Elemental will be destroyed in reviews. ~:(
Yep, it's pretty disapointing - never mind the actual product delivered.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Rock Paper Shotgun reposted some of Wardell's comments/apologies here:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010...d-controversy/
Apparently the Gamer's Bill of Rights situation is RPS couldn't find it on their website separate from the standalone website (which is maintained by Stardock). I don't know if it can't be found on the Stardock site (even a link to the standalone site) just because it's "old news", a link is broken, or if there is still a bit of a sinister/embarrassed attempt to keep people from looking at it too hard during the controversy.
On a lighter note, Brad posted the following this evening as he and his family were getting ready to go on vacation for a few days:
Hee. :laugh4:Quote:
So here I am, minding my own business in my home computer room working on AI stuff for a future Elemental update when my wife comes in.
“Why aren’t you packed?” she asks.
“I’m packed,” I say, referring to my duffle bag with my iPad, laptop, and various computer books.
"We’re supposed to be leaving and all you have are gadgets and work books.”
“They’re not all work books.”
“Oh?” she asks. “Which of these isn’t?”
“Well, see ‘The Halls Below’, that’s not a computer book.” I respond.
“Isn’t a Penny Arcade book?” she demands.
“Well, sure, but it’s not a computer book.” I try to assure her.
“You’ve spent all afternoon and this evening on the computer instead of packing clothes, tooth brush, swimsuit, and other real people stuff?” she asks.
“Well, look, something came up.”
“Oh, tell me, husband.” she says.
“Well look at this, I can assassinate the AI’s sovereign with just a regular army.”
“So?”
This is where I, understandably, became shocked.
“So? So?!” I exclaim. “These are Channelers. Imbued by the Destiny to rebuild the world and I wiped one out with a bunch of guys with Lord hammers while my sovereignw as out on a quest. That’s an outrage.”
“Well there’s nothing you can do about that right now.”
“Ah, but I can! I wrote a function AIUnit::EvaluateAreaThreat(x,y,radius)! The guys have all these cool vectors where I can quickly determine what’s in an area quickly. It’s amazing stuff that I can use to make the AI wipe the floor with these bloody humans.” I explain.
“Vectors are just glorified arrays anyway,” my wife (CS major) says. “Besides, we are supposed to leave and we’re missing out on a beautiful full moon.”
“I saw it, you can tell it’s fake.”
“What? Fake? What are you talking about?” My wife says.
“It’s an uncanny valley thing. I saw the moon earlier. They rendered it wrong. There’s clearly two light sources.”
“ARE YOU INSANE? Who is ‘they’?” my wife demands.
“I dunno who exactly. I don’t want to get into a blame game here. The model seems right, I think it’s just a lighting issue.”
“GET. OFF. THE. COMPUTER. NOW.”
See you guys in a week or so.
Whatever state the game is in currently, I take comfort in the fact that Brad was working on the game even during his supposed downtime....and was willing to risk the wrath of his wife in the process. Now that'sstupiditydedication! ~D
I may be a sucker for things like that (I would, for instance, be willing to kill and be killed for Valve) but that erased most of my (second hand) ill will towards the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
I have heard nothing at all about my copy, I am quite disappointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martok
Yeah, Brad definitely has this....way about him. It's not always a good thing -- some of his recent comments are a testament to that -- but overall, I think it's an asset far more often than not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
He comes off as just a regular guy, flaws and all. He doesn't have any "a God am I" complex that some developers seem to have , and I think it's one of the big reasons I'm such a supporter of Stardock. He truly views himself as a gamer, and seems to identify with the customers at least as much as -- if not more than -- the "Industry" (if that makes any sense). Seriously, how many game company CEO's do we know of that post in the forums and hang out with the fans on a regular basis?
Yeah, my copy didn't arrive today either. Apparently they just shipped out on Tuesday, via express mail, and should arrive at their destinations within 3 days or thereabouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
Of course, since you live across the Pond (correct?), I'm guessing your copy might take a little longer. On the other hand, I've no idea what the shipping time from the States to the UK is, so probably best not to quote me on that. :sweatdrop:
I got my Limited Edition today. :2thumbsup:
"Destiny's Embers" came in today too. Yeah, I got the book..... does that make me a fanboy? :help:
This was prophetic. Pariden has already wiped out one of my fellow empires and I just made contact with them. I tried to do some trading to build up some good will, but they declared war on me after a few turns. I'm in no condition to fight them, but so far they haven't showed much interest in actually destroying me either.Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Let's hope they exhibit the same kind of neglect in conquering my empire that I did in growing it. :laugh4:
I have trouble with scrolling across the map, which is awkward. I have to "guess" the direction it is, etc.
I asked for a refund and got it, very nice of them. I'll probably give the game another look once it has matured a bit, but right now the game is way too rough and unpolished.
Can you use map text to orient yourself? (is it right side up, sideways, ect) :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
I put a couple of squads on "auto-explore" and well, I am not sure where they are in relation to my town...
You mean you can't find them.... or what?
All your armies should have icons representing them down the left side of the screen that you can click on. And if you zoom out far enough, you can see the entire world at one glance on the cloth map.
I cant get this game to load past the artwork it shows after you start a random map. Ive waited for 30 minutes one time. Its not freezing though... Its driving me off the deep end, and add my issues with wireless I just cant seem to get anything to work for me....
I'm starting to think I must be the luckiest guy on the planet when it comes to this game. Other than the slowdowns- mine gets down to 18FPS, which is still entirely playable for a TBS -I've had nary a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veho Nex
I think I might not be ready for a large map epic game. After the last patch, I started a small map, normal paced game and I'm doing much better. Early on, I absorbed one of my fellow empires because they were sitting on lost libraries and other great resources that I just had to have. After that, Pariden started to get aggressive towards me once again and was hemming me in territorially. I managed to quickly capture their city that was hemming me in, kill many of their armies, and curse their best research city with ignorance. After that, I offered them very generous peace terms and they've essentially been my vassal since.
My next war was with yet another empire- Umber, when I decided to come to the aid of my new allies, Pariden. I took one of their cities(killing the sovereign's wife and daughter in the process) and intercepted their sovereign and his army when they were coming to retake it. I've still been researching heavily into magic and have a large force of summoned creatures and was able to kill their sovereign in the field, thus ending the Umber empire. My remaining opponents are the kingdoms of Pariden, Tarth, and Altair- the last of which I still have no contact with. Now I'm able to summon demonic troops, and frankly, it's hard to imagine how any of them could oppose me.
My first demon, about to set to work on some hapless bandits:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
My empire as it now stands:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Well I finally got the game running, only took me uninstalling and reinstalling then re-patching about 10 times. Hit a memory leak issue every 250 turns or so but from what ive read thats common. I havent delved too much into the magic section, been focusing on heavy hitting inf lately. I'll post some pictures from my game later.
Been waiting for this for quite some time now, I just bought the Collector's Ed. last night.
Gotta say, I want to love this game, and when they finally get 'er all patched up, I'm sure I will. But for right now I'm putting it aside.
Bugs bugs bugs. I've ran into more than a few of them, and both of my campaigns I've had to abort/shelve for now. The "end turn" button bug cropped up on both of them, which forced a hard stop as you can't continue. I've been able to build multiple buildings in the same city that I should only be able to build one of. I've not been able to build in a city when I know I haven't hit the 50 tile build limit at all. Some unit bonuses aren't working, I forget which ones I ran into at this point. I saw but didn't run into the level 7, 8, on up spells not working/showing up in game. Units not following shortest/best path when auto-moving really vexes me. The overall game UI could really use some tweaking and polish. Other things here and there, but I've definitely seen more than a few bugs.
Tough-love assessment: they pulled the trigger on this about a month too early. Lots and lots of rough edges, and some stability issues for quite a few people. This is Stardock though, and they've proven to be a solid business with good ethics toward their customers and fans, so my disappointment is somewhat tempered. Will try it when the next patch comes out, hopefully very soon.
I didn't see this until just now. Here's a really good, comprehensive master list of bugs that SD is working on. Really would like to see a patch soon.
http://forums.elementalgame.com/394530
Was using that custom memory leak patch, they recently did something that makes a giant frowny face appear and my game screen starts spinning. Found out I either have to deal with mem leaks or not play. I chose the latter.
Still waiting for word on when my product will arrive. Sent a customer request to Stardock which will hopefully at least shed some light on the issue.
Apparently some time off has changed Brad's perspective on the launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogboy
On the plus side, at least they release how they completely messed up. I am amazed at how bad it is.
Also, I still haven't figured out how to scroll the camera up-down-left-right yet. Arrow keys and WASD isn't doing the trick.
The whole "super-zoomed out" did help significantly though, it was almost unplayable. I reserve that for the Campaign where my character for the life of him, wouldn't open chat with the first NPC. (yes, I am right clicking on him. Yes, I moved next to him. I can chat fine with NPC's in the skirmish mode)
You can click+drag if edge scrolling doesnt do it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beskar
New patch out. It does feel a lot more stable. Started a new campaign, so will see if the game-ending cannot advance turn bug crops up eventually. I REALLY wish they'd do something about the 1 mana per turn regen crap.
That is a surprising admission by Brad and brutally blunt self portrait of a huge failure. Gotta admire him for stating that in public. Most companies (and people) would scramble for excuses that say "it wasn't me!"
I guess, but he also now thinks its not just a matter of bugs and glitches -but substance. That's certainly what some of the reviews have said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoshi
I'm not quite sure what I make of that. But if it means stardock will work to make Elemental very different in a very much "better" or unique way then that could be good. Rather odd though! :shrug: