One word...........guns.
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One word...........guns.
The dutch hadn't arrived, but yes I'm going for that familiar strategy next time and I won't be heading westwards either.
Oda/Expert/1550
https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/...0000001dq6.jpg
Starting out, I decided to stay put and tech up. I had accepted the Portuguese and begun upgrading Owari to produce Teppo. Then after a few years saw the opportunity and went for Imagawa. Imagawa and his few Ashigaru and Archers made an easy victory.
https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/...0000002sy9.jpg
Imagawa had no where to run as Takeda arrived in Totomi the same season...
https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/...0000004wk9.jpg
I decide to take on Takeda in Shinano - mainly to curb it's advancement and not take the province. The result is a close defeat with Nobunaga losing a star, but thankfully not his life. Next I decided to send in the Shinobi and got Totomi and Shinano to revolt.
https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/695/00000005pq5.jpg
Nobunaga Invades Totomi...
https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/...0000006oj6.jpg
And does pretty well...
https://img440.imageshack.us/img440/641/00000008sk3.jpg
Shinobi activity in Suruga causes the reappearance of the Imagawa clan led by Tokugawa Ieyasu.
https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/...0000013ef0.jpg
Toyotomi Hideyoshi leads his first successful campaign to Ise.
Interesting caravel. Just two more provinces until you can get the cathedral, what are your plans?
In truth I haven't got a clue... :dizzy2:
I may make for Musashi and then go for Shinano when strong enough or I could continue westwards. The Takeda are getting stronger however so I may concentrate my efforts on keeping them down for now.
This is my Shimazu (Expert/Huge Units/Starting 1530) campaign so far:
https://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5110/00000007h.jpg
So far I've moved aggressively against the ronin with Chikugo being the short term objective. I got lucky there as there were only two units of Ashigaru defending. Not much koku yet and I've had taxes pushed way up while fighting off ronin in Higo, but that now looks set to change. It looks like it could be interesting though and Lord Shimazu is never short of heirs after all.
Input as to suggested strategies will be much appreciated, as ever.
:bow:
With the Shimmies I've found that a constant push (no turtle) strategy works best, else whichever of the powerful eastern clans that emerge dominant are really nasty by the time you get to them. First orders of business for me are 1) securing Kyushu and a foothold on Honshu (Nagato), 2) beating Mori (Takeda? Mori is absent in one of the campaigns; I can't remember which) to control of Shikoku and the nice bonus buildings in Tosa (iirc, in 1530), and 3) defeating the Mori/Takeda while at the same time constantly pressing for Kyoto. I consider the first major phase of that campaign accomplished when I control Kawachi, Harima, Tajima, Yamashiro, and everything west of these.
Managing cash flow is always a challenge with the Shims, but you're a highly experienced SP player so that shouldn't be a problem for you. Chevauchee tactics can sometimes be necessary in order to maintain pace of expansion, and control of your enemy's (Mori's/Takeda's) expansion. Alliances are important early on for the additional income. The Shims are respected and trusted more than most other clans, so you should be able to secure several, provided your emissaries are not assassinated before they complete their missions. Iirc you start with an emissary but don't have a Tranquil Garden. So protecting your diplomats (by choosing their routes carefully and trying to anticipate ninja attack) and prioritizing a Garden is important.
The unknown for me in your scenario is huge units. I play with 60-man units so I'm not sure how playing with huge units affects things in SP. I do remember that in MP, using huge units had a drastic effect on what worked and what didn't and limited maneuverability tactics because units occupied so much more space and could effectively defend a larger area. This gave infantry a big boost and reduced cavalry effectiveness somewhat.
When I get my next Shogun itch I'll have to try some huge unit campaigns. Amazing after all the games I've played, there are still new options to try. Gotta luv Shoggie.
Edit: Oh, fight a lot of battles with experienced units and get that Swordsman event! Bonused No Dachi are a big advantage early on.
Well I tend to turtle a campaign, almost instincitvely, but this time around I've gone straight for the throat. Imagawa reappeared and the ronin in Hizen, Chikuzen and Buzen (re)joined them. I decided not to wait until they'd shipped in any more units from Totomi and attacked. This strategy has paid off and left me in complete control of Kyushu. My next move will probably be against Nagato, Takeda Shingen is there with a small force (probably shipped in via Aki). It would be best to deal with Shingen now before he establishes a major foothold on my doorstep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
I've now accepted the Portuguese and have a lot of Christian emissaries. I have one question that's just occured to me: Is there any value in still training Buddhist emissaries to deal with the Buddhist Daimyos? (funnily enough I've never considered that before)Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
I've always played on huge units since STW v1.0. And when I got MTW I went straight into huge units as well. I'm one of those people that buys a game and goes straight into the options messing about before I play it. I definitely find it more immersive and more challenging. I've tried the smaller unit sizes and had a spell playing on the next size down, but in the end I returned to huge. One of the main factors is the two season training time. This means you have to think ahead and you can't just train a unit just in time (i.e. as an enemy is about to invade).Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
:2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
Yes I've managed that now. It took longer than usual this time around. I'm about to train some of the famed Satsuma Nodachi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
I'll post an updated map this evening.
:bow:
I'd forgotten that the Imagawa start with Hizen in that campaign. I race up and try to take Chikugo (the river province) before they do. River battles as the attacker can be costly. I then take Hizen asap, to take control of or destroy the port. That's a tough break you describe--creates a delay, allowing the Takeda to strengthen their western position. Good thing you acted quickly. If Shingen is in the game then it's past 1536. In that scenario (1530) I try to deal with Shingen before he arrives :beam: (by sacking Aki asap, and any other Takeda-controlled, troop-producing province in the west if others have been built, forcing his spawn in the east). Shingen can be a bit of a pain when encountered early on.before you've established a solid income. The western lands are poor, and it takes time and investment to get the ports and mines going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
Priests are cheaper. I believe emissaries are more likely to succeed when dealing with Buddhist clans, priests with Christian clans. Christian clans won't use assassins to kill priests iirc.Quote:
I've now accepted the Portuguese and have a lot of Christian emissaries. I have one question that's just occured to me: Is there any value in still training Buddhist emissaries to deal with the Buddhist Daimyos? (funnily enough I've never considered that before)
Interesting. My primary enjoyment comes from the battles, and my favorite units are cavalry. Hence I like having small units that allow for more maneuvering and flanking on STW's relatively small maps.Quote:
I've always played on huge units since STW v1.0. And when I got MTW I went straight into huge units as well. I'm one of those people that buys a game and goes straight into the options messing about before I play it. I definitely find it more immersive and more challenging. I've tried the smaller unit sizes and had a spell playing on the next size down, but in the end I returned to huge. One of the main factors is the two season training time. This means you have to think ahead and you can't just train a unit just in time (i.e. as an enemy is about to invade).
Each training center I build usually specializes in one type of unit. I don't build many of them, usually one per unit type that I use (Spear, Archer, Cav, Shock). Though I can't in the earliest stages of the game, once my economy gets going, I build a unit a turn whether I need it immediately or not, keeping a "chain" of reinforcements flowing to the front. This would take longer with huge units, but the end result is similar. I've found that this method is pretty much necessary when employing a constant expansion strategy. It will be interesting to see how huge units affects this method. I am used to finishing a 1530 game between 1550 and 1555. I think huge units will drastically affect how the game turns out. I'll have to try it and see if I find it enjoyable. At the very least it will be different--that's something I haven't experienced in STW for a while.
Looking forward to seeing how things turn out. :bow:
Shingen will provide an interesting challenge - and if I lose well that is the "way of the warrior" after all. I've never had issues with the huge units on the smaller maps - I suppose I prefer the smaller maps as the MTW maps seemed a bit too large to me and units tire completely walking from one side to the other anyway.
That reminds me... I've noticed a "bug". I can't believe I've never noticed this before... When moving groups around they tend to always "run". :dizzy2:
I've not played STW/MI extensively - I had finished the game several times before MI was released - and I don't remember this problem in STW v1.x (but maybe it was always there and I had never noticed). Any ideas on a workaround or solution for this? It's very annoying having to move units one at a time to stop them running and tiring out...
:bow:
Hmm, I've not noticed that. With a single click? At first, when troops are fresh, I've noticed that they move "quickly." But after that I assumed they lost their initial vigor and just walked unless specifically ordered to run. I'd have to test this to know for sure.
I move as an army at first (all grouped), to a (hopefully advantageous) position where I intend to engage the enemy, using the all-army rotate command when I need to angle. Then I separate them all and command units individually (a common MP method). I always assign numbered groups, but don't use them very often in SP. When I do, it's usually to bring that group to a common place after the battle has been going for a while and troops are scattered about. I don't use hard groups much because I often use the tabs to select, and too often in the frenzy of battle I've accidentally double-clicked instead of single-clicked a unit, selecting the group instead of the desired unit within that group to attack something. This is usually not a good thing.
Heh, I run around a lot. Both Tosa and Puzz have teased me, observing in past games that I had been to just about every place on a map over the course of a battle. I expect my troops to be tough, and to perform! :whip: No rest for the ... err ... nvm.
I actually group similar units but I don't use those groups as groups if that makes sense? I also ungoup and change groups around. Anyway I noticed this problem whenever two or more units are selected, whether they are grouped or not. They run everywhere, on single clik movement, until they're exhausted. I will be interested to hear of your findings.
:bow:
Yikes! With my playing style, I've probably conquered a dozen or so provinces in that same time-span:dizzy2:Quote:
I am used to finishing a 1530 game between 1550 and 1555.
I've not noticed that grouped units move dbl-time....the unit cards show run but, IIRC, the units themselves are walking......I could be wrong tho'................
I use grouping much more on defense than the attack.....preferring more micro-managing when the aggressor. I'd use grouping much more probably if I didn't find the deployment formations so useless for the attacker. I'm a big user of CA and they should be at the front of my army, dammit, not stuck behind all the other cav:laugh4:
More on topic.....I'd evict the Takeda from Nagato, ASAP, as there are no provinces on Shikoku that have ironsands for an armory. When I play Shimazu, I accept for guns as soon as they're available, and Nagato will eventually get the gun factory (it's one of the few provinces that meets all the conditions) and I have muskets long before anyone else:beam:
Heh, I'm by no means one of the speedier players who've have posted here over the years. Sasaki, Noir, and others have said they've completed campaigns in 10-12 game years. I've never been able to do that. Iirc, they even posted campaign reports illustrating how they did it somewhere in here. It was quite a while ago though.
I'll have to check to see if the units are actually running when I fight the next battle, though I was sure they were. (-edit: They'll probably be running from Shingen in the next battle anyway...)
Anyway this is the latest:
https://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1951/00000010.jpg
At the moment I'm raising troops and trying to fortify my position but I will be moving against Shingen next. Also my provinces are no where near converted so I need to convert them to just above 50% to stabilise a bit first. Taxes are on punitive though so it's ok so far. Garissons are only single units of Ashigaru. I'm building a Sword Dojo in Satsuma and it's also ready to train Portuguese Teppo Ashigaru if needed. As you can see my forces have only just arrived in Hizen and I have a lot of farm upgrades to build there. I suppose I'm neither a turtler or a blitzer. I usually build up then expand rapidly and then wait several years before expanding again.
:bow:
One of the things often overlooked by players reluctant to convert to Christianity is the income bonuses generated by Portuguese trading posts and a cathedral (if you choose to go that route). For an income-starved clan like the Shimazu, that can really jump start the war effort. I can't tell you how many times the extra 1200+ koku from a cathedral and the 200 from each trading post has saved my butt during 'poor harvest' years. I remember one campaign, as Imagawa, where I had 5 consecutive...and 7 out of 10 of those things:dizzy2:
Even with the added income I was barely able to hang on and then because I resorted to something I rarely do which is mass assassination of enemy generals (making my battles somewhat easier).
I see you have a bevy of priests. For some reason, probably because they are such easy ninja targets, I never use them.....preferring to let the churches I construct spread 'the word.'
If you can afford it, you could take on Shingen with the echelon tactic, perhaps. Send a decent enough army to cause casualties, and then a second one to finish him off. With 5 stars already, it's highly unlikely he'll be gaining another anytime soon....................
Indeed. A Cathedral has pricey prerequisites and requires churches to be built. The value really kicks in if other clans have gone Christian and are building churches (this doesn't seem to happen often in my games). In the 1580 campaign I try to take the Oda Cathedral from them (in Ise).
Trading Posts are excellent sources of income for a Christian daimyo. I like ports, mines, mine complexes and trading posts because they yield a constant income, unaffected by seasonal variances.
Rapid expansion means more koku faster from each province conquered. Because the Shimmies are poor and the lands between them and Kyoto aren't particularly rich (but many ...), the rapid expansion strategy really helps maintain financial growth and military expense parity. One great thing about the western lands is, almost all are coastal, and can support both port and trading post. Once you get a good number of ports and trading posts going, the rest of the game gets pretty easy.
When I do battle with a 6-star general, my primary objective is to kill him on the field. If he dies, a mass rout is pretty much guaranteed from the huge loss of morale (death of the general penalty and -3 honor, which equates to -6 morale). You just need to keep your army massed and right on the enemy's butt until they leave the map.
Hmm. I guess I'll mention this. You can change your taxes to Punishing in the fall, reap the larger profit, and then return taxes to minimal the following winter to reduce population discontent and leave it there until the following fall. You'll reap maximum harvest value this way, and loyalty will improve much faster over time. I consider this an exploit, but I guess you could say that you are manipulating the perceptions of the population, lying to them most of the year and then declaring a higher tax at harvest. Wouldn't be so different from what a lot of politicians have done historically.
Agreed. Here it depends on where the AI deploys. Nagato is an uphill battle all the way. If the AI deploys on the first hill, it's not too difficult to flank. But if it turtles on those hills in the upper left corner................:wall:Quote:
When I do battle with a 6-star general, my primary objective is to kill him on the field.
:laugh4::laugh4:Quote:
I consider this an exploit, but I guess you could say that you are manipulating the perceptions of the population, lying to them most of the year and then declaring a higher tax at harvest. Wouldn't be so different from what a lot of politicians have done historically.
The latest:
https://img82.imageshack.us/img82/9093/00000015z.jpg
I've now begun larger scale Teppo and Nodachi training. Had a few battles so far and currently at war with Takeda. Trading posts are bringing in a decent income.
So what next, do you think? I presume you're planning on taking Sanuki to complete your conquest of Shikoku, but the choice seems to be less clear after that. Time to expand your Nagato bridgehead and start pushing northwards up Honshu, perhaps?
Tosa is a nice place to train teppo, with the ashi bonus:yes:
Personally, I'd take a two-prong approach:
1. Expand the Nagato bridgehead, as suggested by Martok, but only as far as Aki (at least in the short term). The lands further north will need conquering eventually, but they are poor koku yield and will tie up at least two armies if not three.
2. Push into Kawachi before it gets too heavily defended. Expand into nearby Harima and Bizen. Harima for it's mine and farmland, Bizen for it's cheaper port. Kawachi is fairly easy to defend and gives you a springboard into central Japan much quicker than slogging up Honshu.
It's nearly always been my experience that if you advance along a single axis, the AI just pours everything it has into your path, and you end up going strength against strength. I prefer to give the AI more choices to go wrong and guessing (Kirk to Spock: "Just make your best guess.":laugh4:) as to where your real intentions are.
My 2cents
Lord Takeda moves to retake Nagato:
https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3958/00000016a.jpg
The Shimazu army in Nagato constists mostly of Yari Samurai and Samurai Archers. Additionally two units of Teppo Ashigaru and another two of Nodachi Samuari join the battle with Lord Shimazu himself leading.
https://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3662/00000020t.jpg
The resulting battle was a quick defensive engagement with the Takeda army taking heavy losses and routing before the volleys from our guns. (yes I shamefully corner camped this one, but positioning was very awkward - any other position would probably have placed me directly downhill of the Takeda army - who brought along a lot of Archers and Cavalry archers as well).
https://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6085/00000021x.jpg
This is how things stand at present. Takeda has moved against Iwami twice and did once retake both Awa and Awaji. The Cathedral will soon be built in Satsuma and yes I am training +1 honour Teppo Ashigaru in Tosa.
I will be moving into Kawachi but I probably need to push further north into Honshu first. I should be able to train another decent army stack soon when the Cathedral is built. The income from Lord Takeda's churches will help as well.
:bow:
This is not a bug AFAIK.Quote:
Originally posted by Asai Nagamasa
That reminds me... I've noticed a "bug". I can't believe I've never noticed this before... When moving groups around they tend to always "run".
I've not played STW/MI extensively - I had finished the game several times before MI was released - and I don't remember this problem in STW v1.x (but maybe it was always there and I had never noticed). Any ideas on a workaround or solution for this? It's very annoying having to move units one at a time to stop them running and tiring out...
When you group units and give the group the single click order to move to a place certain units will run to maintain the distances of the initial set up. The group moves in a common speed, so the slower units need to run occasionally in order to maintain it.
This is especially so if the group needs to rotate; by geometry the outter units/soldiers will run much faster than the inner ones (outer and inner with resepct to the certain of the rotation) in the same way that circumferences of a rotating circle have speeds proportional to the corresponding radii, that is the further from the centre the faster they spin (in order to maintain a common speed for the whole); the centre it self has 0 speed.
If you make a group of the same unit type and order them to march straight in a flat, none of the units will be running.
Similar things happen in MTW.
:bow: