Ofcourse im out of touch as i havent even looked at Curia in years. But that job of yours most have given you quite few grey hair. I mainly only hang out in history and science sections of TWC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
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Ofcourse im out of touch as i havent even looked at Curia in years. But that job of yours most have given you quite few grey hair. I mainly only hang out in history and science sections of TWC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
May be true. If it wasn't for econ, I'm fairly sure I wouldn't have stuck around.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
1. Avatar policy has been voted on a number of times, and though my head says recently, it may have been end of 07 when the last poll happened. The avatars are stuck in TW Themed. Community has voted each time to keep them that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
2. It can be, but look at how much its been relaxed. When I joined, I could post in the entrance hall only. I had to wait 300 seconds (5 minutes) between every post. Between thread creation, I think it was like 2 and a half days.
3. I don't understand, are you saying that it makes it hard to come into an environment where everyone already knows each other and there is common opinions on stuff? I would agree, but I would also hope that we try to welcome the newer members, as the old Welcoming Committe did, and as many still do.
Mailman: yes. KLA? He certainly has the ability, but I see no reason why he should become a moderator. If he was inclined in that direction, I'm sure he'd post a bit more in that section, instead of putting his mod stuff in Parliament. If you have mod choice based on ability (like it seems you have done), then the entire structure would change...We'd have Prussian Iron leading the Frontroom, Tribesman leading the Backroom etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Yes, i know. But this is precisely the point. The conservatism of the community evidently won't be overcome by the community. It needs a bold move, by the administration/staff, assuming of course they judge that such a move is desirable. However "judge" is the keyword. If the org community thinks that this should be treated as a matter of preference, then the current avatar policy may as well stay. However the point is that its far more than that. It is a matter that affects accessibility as well as other things. As such it has to be rethought on that basis, rather than aesthetics only.Quote:
Originally posted by pevergreen
1. Avatar policy has been voted on a number of times, and though my head says recently, it may have been end of 07 when the last poll happened. The avatars are stuck in TW Themed. Community has voted each time to keep them that way.
To be honest, the ability to edit for junior members is at the centre of this one. Almost all of them seem bewildered at the fact to various degrees (it adds to the embarassment and stress of the newby, especially for first timer and young people), as well as to the fact that they are under "supervision" by mods in order to be awarded membership status. I think this one being taken out would go quite some way towards bringing down accessibility barriers.Quote:
2. It can be, but look at how much its been relaxed. When I joined, I could post in the entrance hall only. I had to wait 300 seconds (5 minutes) between every post. Between thread creation, I think it was like 2 and a half days.
The environment is precisely the great attraction and strength of the org. The good things about it are that its close knit, mature, having evolved through true fit and over some time, and that it has certain characteristics, admitedly pluralistic but characteristics nevertheless. The bad thing is that the reception and integration processes are quite detailed and slow - hence the close knit. The org lacks dynamic communities within the community as of late (with the notable exception of the EB community), and as time will go by it may well lack more if the demographic trend continues.Quote:
3. I don't understand, are you saying that it makes it hard to come into an environment where everyone already knows each other and there is common opinions on stuff? I would agree, but I would also hope that we try to welcome the newer members, as the old Welcoming Committe did, and as many still do.
Maturity is also a large part of it. Warman was a good example. He had been accepted, given chances and treated nicely and fairly and yet because of that (and not despite) he was unable to integrate because he didn't had the potential to reach the level that would have been acceptable (at this time of his life). Warman behaves far more reasonably in certain instances in the twc, especially when among more immature members than he. This would have been an impossibility here, and so Warman is still to this day - believe it or not - lurking around the org and digging out for supporters, in order to stage his comeback. In short, what has been asked of him, was impossible to him at least for many more years to come, creating in essence a love/hate relationship from his side to this place, because he was implicitly asked to become an "orgah", while the best he could realistically do (and everyone knew it) was a caricature of an orgah. The expectation was unreasonable, and the result predictable. Admitedly Warman;s case is extreme, but it contains a truth; that the org does not have a place for various types of member. It has a place for a certain type of member - that which is akin to what we are here or to the type of member that is willing to become something very much like what we are here. The sieve holes are a little too small, especially given the fact that new tws are adressed to younger players.
Another example is the aforementioned issue about the moderation of teh redoubt - again a community within the community was judged with criteria that would have been valid in the "core" parts of the org, the frontroom, the gameroom or the parliament (or any other sp subforum). That was a mistake and the consequences showed. Whats happening in the reception and integration course of new members as a whole is a similar type of thing. The idiosyncracies of communities within the community are in fact discouraged, hence the homogeneity. Homogeneity however brings eventually lack of tension (harmful and creative) and eventually (lack) of pluralism. The environment finally stagnates.
Warman...I don't want to bring that back up. inb4 lock etc
But I disagree that the person must fit. If it was that rigid, you wouldn't have people like PI, or me when I started. Or even now. :laugh4:
As for your last paragraph, in my current state I don't understand most of what you said and so I shall not respond to it. :beam:
In fact you and PI are among the few new/young members that "managed" to fit. You in particular are still in the process imo.
As for the last paragraph, i am indebted to your shortsightedness ;)
I share a slightly different opinion on Warman. My ghostly account in the TWC is perhaps kept alive because I discuss with Warman various ingame issues. We are very different (if not totally opposite) and that's perhaps what gives charm to our communication. With the suitable approach, he can give a lot to the Org. It is not necessary to agree with everything he says, of course. But more understanding and tolerant. People grow up and change and eventually, this happens with him. I really hope he will return soon and I really hope his impetuous nature won't bring him trouble again. But he certainly deserves a chance. And yes, perhaps we need slightly more impetious people (slightly!) ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
I would also express my view that permament bans should be in very very limited numbers.
I also think Kage is right. Gollum also has some point as well. Things are changing. The future of the Org. should no longer be tied only with the TW games, I think. We can continue the policy of enlightened absolutism and there is nothing bad in it. I also despise the reputations, perhaps because I never aimed to be popular. But apart from that, I support the changes.
The modifications of the profile were funny but I believe they were temporarily postponed after the update. But a slightly more liberal approach won't harm as well, though trolling should not be tolerated. And once again, the TW alone seem not to be a viable option for the Org. anymore.
I for my part don´t come here so often any more b/c I do not play mafia games.
As soon as I click on new posts "half" of these are some sort of mafia this, or mafia that. I was used to interesting discussions about history / TW games [esp. EB] and sometimes soccer discussions. Well, I am not the Alpha & Omega of this forum, so just my 2 cents.
You calling me young? I joined here on *insert join date here* and i was...15. I am now 19. :laugh4: I have to grow up some time, I guess?Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
And I'm totally older than Beefy. And maybe GH as well, I forget.
Would you believe that my mental capacity is so low right now that I don't understand what you are saying with that second line?
Bans: I don't know of a single perma ban. Warman's ban is only for a year. Plus any extensions added on (if there are any, and if it works like that)Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Cobra
I completely agree that the org needs to accept more games than just Total War, if we want to grow. The simplest expansion, the Paradox games.
I dont think it would hurt asking him. He doesnt seem to post much at all in any site outside his own hosted mod area. Doesnt make him any less capable modder and a nice person. Other then this i completely agree with you on that if Org would expand to other games, which i would see as positive as many of the Orgahs have also moved on from TW. The Paradox games would be obvious group of games to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
No it doesnt. I disagree with some of his posting methods, but he seems to have changed that anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
Anyway, moderator selection is a secret and mysterious thing.
Does this mean I'm considered an "old member"?Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
I haven't got the time to look through everything on this thread, but this caught my eye. The problem with this idea is that you seem to assume a disconnect between staff members and forum members. Staff members are forum members first and we are responsive to the will of the forum more so than we are our own whims (we are also incredibly collaborative behind-the-scenes, far more than I thought before becoming part of staff). Such a bold step that you think is needed (probably correctly) would go against this ethos and I, for one, would be uncomfortable with staff members overwriting the will of the community just because we think it is better for the community.Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
Funny that.Quote:
Originally Posted by pevergreen
Asian people thinks I'm in the late 20s.
Europeans thinks I'm still a grade 10nerSpoiler Alert, click show to read:
That is the current situation. But we could easily over come this with the quantity and quality of our members :yes:
Also it will be quite probaly that sooner or later we will witness the release of either R2TW (most propably) or S2TW ( bit less). And i am quite sure that both titles would strike home in this audience. Thus we have to survive untill that happens and not bury our heads in the sand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beefy187
I'll stick around. And if those 2 titles are going to be the next release... I might even buy them.
If worst comes to worst, we can set up a TosaInu coorporation and take over CA :clown:
The abolition of the avatar restrictions make perfect sense. People like to be individuals, but the avatars here are anything but. It would be nice if a choice of avatars were available (I'm not referring to the URL avatars - they are only viewable by registered members and are an addtion to the default avatars). Opening up the avatar selection to allow users to upload their own would be well worth it. What is the biggest problem? Me having the fluffy bunny avatar I've always wanted, or the person with massive signature that takes up two thirds of your screen? It's pointless having uniform avatars without also restricting the signatures to be "total war" related as well.
As to the junior members rank, I've never been able to make up my mind on that one. But really I think it needs to be abolished for the good of the site. To the moderators (and ex moderators including myself) it may seem a great idea for the following reasons:
1) Spambots are restricted to certain forums, thus easier to track down.
2) Those of malintent that want to register alts to cheat at polls are hampered from doing so.
3) Flaming/bashing/trolling posts cannot be edited out / the user has to think about their post before they post it.
Cannot think of any more reasons offhand.
To challenge those points:
1) No longer an issue, in the past when JMs were restricted to only the entrance hall, this was worthwhile, nowadays when JMs can post almost anywhere and every spambot has a fetish for "Spartan Total Warrior" and any forum moderated by pevergreen it's irrelevant.
2) Still valid, but assumes every member is a "criminal". Basing how the forum runs around a few idiots is not worth inconveniencing everyone else for.
3) Also assumes that JMs are inherently not to be trusted and should be viewed with suspicion until they've proven themselves. Stopping a JM from editing is also pointless as anyone can make a mistake and have a hot headed moment that they later regret (I'm sure we've all been there?), it doesn't mean that they're immediately an undesirable that the .org can do without. The ability for a member to retract a bad post is important and saves a lot of work for mods. It also cuts down on double posts and is less frustrating for new members.
I think these changes would benefit the .org and it's members - given a chance - and would not be "turning it into TWC" (which I also oppose) or attracting the wrong kind of patron.
:bow:
I like the current avatar system. It makes me feel special :snobby:Quote:
Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa
In fact i think that the community and teh staff are indeed becoming increasingly one and the same thing and this is the root and effect at the same time of the problem. The community is the staff because that's how its meant to be in order to be the community.Quote:
Origninally posted by CA
I haven't got the time to look through everything on this thread, but this caught my eye. The problem with this idea is that you seem to assume a disconnect between staff members and forum members. Staff members are forum members first and we are responsive to the will of the forum more so than we are our own whims (we are also incredibly collaborative behind-the-scenes, far more than I thought before becoming part of staff). Such a bold step that you think is needed (probably correctly) would go against this ethos and I, for one, would be uncomfortable with staff members overwriting the will of the community just because we think it is better for the community.
My points about warman meant not to reopen the discussion and the drama surrounding it - they meant to show an example.
PrinceC: i undrstand where you are coming from but i disagree (respectfully) with you.
Pever: it has nothing to do with mental powers, but with age. It doesnt mean you are no good or dump or anything - just taht your time to dwelve deep in this kind of thing hasn;t come yet. It doesnt mean anything other than that.
Also dont be in a hurry to grow up - because you might end up doing at 40 what you haven't done at 20 like most. At 19 be 19 and at 99 be 99 if you want my opinion. The last sentence meant to read "thank you" for not opening the moderation of the redoubt disagreement.
Sorry for the quick answers, just being pressed for time.
I also agree that current avatar system is good enough. I have an ORG avatar in TWC as well(I think, haven't been there for some time..)! :beam:
Well, I certainly did not want to begin a new pointless debate. About the second, I respectfully disagree that you know where I come from. Assumptions are tricky things, sometimes they can be wrong. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
Back to topic: Well, I love this avatar of mine and somehow, it would be hard to imagine the Org. without those nice avatars. A second, more random (how random is a matter of further clarification) avatar could exist, even with the main skin (for the registered members, say). However, the old avatars (updated or not) must stay and add a specific atmosphere in the Org. I am sure those members who want to be different can easily remake their TW avatars with a painting program. I think when there is one standard people get more creative in order to become different.
Btw, since we talk about avatars at the moment, it is possible to get custom made avatars if they fit the current avatar sizes. Just ask Tosa if you can use it and he will make it happen(i think...)
Read all of the thread, and I agree with most suggestions given. I would like to stress the end of the Avatar restrictions, which seem really weird. So long as you impose a set of restrictions on size and subject of the avatar, I don't see any inconvinience with having personalized avatars.
Imposing restrictions on "subject" for avatars is a ton of work for the mods/admin. I personally like the avatar restrictions, and it seems like the community generally does as well. I'm down for another vote on the matter, but remember when overruling the "conservative" forum population you may lose more than you gain.
Unsure if anyone here is aware of this, but custom avatars already exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
Your URL avatar can be about whatever you want... Many people use them in favour of the normal avatar already.
Just to make it clear PrinceC; i mean that i disagree with you about whether the org should stay as it is or not. Not about warman.
:bow:
whats a "new member" when do you become an accepted member?
Generally they are done in batches, and every few weeks.
Could take a few days, could take a few weeks. Rare for it to last a month.
IIRC, a new member is a member that has not yet activated their account by clicking the email confirmation link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurion1
Yohei
I like how gollum talked about that a certain type of member does not fit to the org and I oddly thought that I fitted into that description. >:(
Fixiwee,
It's not a certain type of member not fitting the org. If you read it to mean that any person doesn't feel comfortable here, that's possible of course. It's a certain type of behavior that's not accepted.
It's also not true that certain opinions, beliefs, ways of life etc. are not welcome here. Both G.W. Bush and O. Bin Laden can become member, get Backroom access, be welcome and become a valuable gem here. They don't have to like each other or agree about anything.
That would be interesting. Should we send them an invite? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
Try to compare an Orgah with a SA Goon. The latter does not fit here.Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
I have long accepted the fact that this is a forum with rigerous and restrictiv moderation. I respect that, but that does not mean I have to be active here.
About what I said too Fixiwee. Noone forces anyone to stay here, but noone will force anyone to leave either (unless that person fails to behave on this board).
Will you become their mentor Ibn-Khaldun?
Tosainu: its your board and your call.
However consider that what tw was is gone. Its something different now and this site cannot remain connected to its present reality with the line it has but only to the memory of what was its reality once upon a time.
The org is special and a nice place to be. It may be getting a bit too special and too nice though. The things you say are true and also not true - we can analyse it in depth but it will be useless because i know just as well as you know that there is a subjective/personal element there (as it should be), the collective subjective element of admins + staff that sets the line of what type of member (with its attendant behaviour) is and is not acceptable, what opinions are and are not debatable etc. It isn't simply a matter of saying that different opinions etc are possible in paper - it is a matter of seeing how this pluralism is happening in reality. And the reality is that there is a homogeneity that is protected and defended by the majority of the regulars/staff/admins proudly even. The homogeneity does not only encompasses behaviour but also trends of opinions in many cases.
However, i repeat that tw is not what it used to be and so the org is not what it used to be. This is a real situation and you guys have a real choice to make. I know that you are strong willed, and that's a virtue is many instances. However not in all. In any case the decision is up to you at the end of the day and the rest of the staff. I am well aware that the org most likely will keep the course it has at the moment. However, i'm not sure if it will help it in terms of environment. The last line of integarted regular members have matured (yaseikhan, count arach, psychonaut/rythmic), and assuming pevergreen becomes a mod too - what then?
Who will take up the torch then? There are almost none left i'm afraid and even fewer in tw strictly related sub forums.
:bow:
You have to look at the join dates. Some were years before me, some a year or two after. When I came here, it was pretty much the first big forum that I stayed at for more than a week or so. The moderating team was just...right. (I know this is probably going off on a tangent)Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
I've always held the opinion of .org staff, that they are generally older, more mature people than the average member. (Hence my surprise when I first saw a picture of BKS). Its true quite a few of the more 'recent' moderators are coming down in age, but they do show maturity here, if not always IRL *looks at CountArach :tongue:*
They do a great job of enforcing and being a normal member as well. Don't know how Tosa/whoever else picks them, but they seem to do quite well.
Hence why I won't be becoming a mod :wink:
Hello,
There have always been young to very young staffmembers. Age is not a criteria. I know people who are only 10 years old who act like a stable 40 year old adult and I know 40 year old adults who act like a 10 year old kid. That doesn't need to be a reason to reject a member to become staff. A youthful approach will be refreshing, but how will he or she act whenever there's some stress.
You'll become a mod when you stop wanting/wishing to become a mod. I think you have uncosciously (and a bit consciously) understood this, and so you are on your way to there. Being a mod requires one not being dragged by his passions and liking and understanding people in general, as well as knowing what good measure is and what is not. It also requires a genuine love and knowledge forthe area one will be called to moderate. You'll get there eventually, but slowly - a step at a time.
PS By "the last line of integrated regular members have matured" i meant that they have matured in terms of their membership. I mean matured in the cycle "lurker, newby, established member, senior member, mod, senior member, lurker".
Iv'e actually wondered how the selection process for moderation happens. I kind of assumed you had to make it known that you wished to moderate a forum before you were offered the position of moderator. I'm not aware how one would go about doing that though.
When I was an assistant moderator I was voted in (fun times). I did of course volunteer before hand. Unfortunately my replacement isn't, errrrr, with us any more, but the whole voting for the assistant moderator was specific to the time and the type of forum I was assistant moderating. Again, still no idea how moderators emerge.
I just want to know gollum when you decide a member has become accepted by the community? when they win an award......
In that case I will never become an accepted member.
IMHO, the awards are part of the problem. They encourage clique-iness
How so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotan
CoH is the most distributed award, any of you could go get it now. Writing Contests/Photography/History/Screenshot etc are based on the contests that happen.
Ignoring the old MP player of the month and STW era stuff.
HoF. Thats pretty much it.
How is the Hall of Fame encouraging a clique to form?
I havent discovered a hidden subforum and become best friends with other people.
Are the moderators a clique? I'd say no. Apart from the mod subforum, but thats needed anyway.
Are senior members? No, apart from a silly Super Exclusive Senior Members only club. That has like 7 people in it and nothing happens there. Plus its a social group, with brings me to:
The only thing I can think of on this board that encourages people to form their own groups and avoid other parts is: Social Groups.
Where to draw the line? There was a short phase back in 2002 when I became administrator, where all accounts were equal. I don't quite remember whether I also hid the postcount, but I do remember we had silly strife about that before: "So you think you're l33t, because you have 500 more?' Stupid hostile ad hominems about yellow being better than blue instead of constructive discussions, laughs together and sound interactions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotan
The outcries about this communism were big. People want to be different and more, until the other has something else that doesn't suit their own views and then silly arguments about it pop up left and right.
It's right that the social groups have far more potential to create cliquishness than HOF awards. Yet, none of them warrants it and people are bigger than those trivialities? Or not?
I do believe so, even through all the 'strife' the org has gone through. People have risen above it and continued on contributing to the org.Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
Or they've left. :no:
But sometimes they come back. :beam:
Funny, we were just talking about that the other day over champagne and caviar in the Awards Lounge...Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotan
As to some of the points discussed:
1) It may be time to drop all restrictions on new members, at least for a trial period and see how it goes. There are so few restrictions (editing and Backroom?) on the accounts now, why not? There were/are reasons for it, but despite the intentions, the system seems to be seen as a "guilty until proven innocent" thing. Perception is reality.
2) A re-examination regarding the direction of the Org is a good thing. However, we don't know if the staff has done this already unless they open up the discussion to the general membership. I see no problem with staying with TW, but us of the old guard have to accept that the game has changed from STW/MTW and need to cultivate the fans of the newer releases. An appropriate moderator is not the key other than having their hand on the pulse of that particular community. A mod is a mod - not a cheerleader.
3) In my experience, the selection of moderators is essentially based on maturity - showing good judgement in posting on sensitive issues, not trolling, avoiding troll bait and generally conducting themselves as good patrons. Active participation helps too.
4) As for limitations on what can be discussed, that is based more on how the topic is handled by the membership. Guns and abortion were banned topics long ago because they always ended in flame wars. A couple of years ago, it was decided to give them another try and this time around the discussions were handled much more maturely by the membership, so they are no longer verboten. Community wars (multiplayer, clan-based mostly) are off limits because Tosa and the staff doesn't want the Org to turn into a battleground for such games. The bottom line is that they want to Org to be a nice, fun place to visit. Any discussions that disrupt that turn into off limits topics.
That's my two cents.
BTW good topic and interesting discussion by all. :thumbsup:
i think you should have to get permission for backroom. Many of the discussions in the TWC put the backroom to shame in the immature category. And its not like a real screening anyway.
Ah, a .org commune. let me guess, it should of worked well in principle but didn't work in reality?Quote:
Originally Posted by TosaInu
I actually think the clique-iness of the .org is less than it used to be. Back in 2005 when I first joined, a lot of the moderating staff were members who had been part of the old Shogun/medieval community, in particular the multiplayer community. From what I gathered this was more so before I joined and prior to what I would imagine was either 2003 or 2004 most of the moderating staff were linked to this close knit community in some way. I wasn't around when it was like this and I only saw the tail end of it if you like, but some people saw this as a type of clique.
From about 2005 onwards though a lot more moderators were chosen from different areas and this old community clique kind of faded away as people left the .org or retired their position for whatever reason. Indeed, I don't really see there being a clique any more. I guess it could seem like there still is a clique but I would put that down to the size of the .org more than there being a kind of sub-community.
We can talk all about measures on how to improve the recruitment of new .Orgmembers as much as you like but until there are definite indications about the reasons for our diminishing and aging (meaning fewer new members) membership base, those measures will just be blind acts.
Do other TW-based sites also have the same problem? => maybe the fan base committed enough to contribute to forums has shrunk (in which case it's out of our hands)
What do still dynamic TW-based sites do differently? => that's the measures we're now discussing but a more systematic approach may prove more fruitful
What changes has the internet undergone since the start of this forum that may make the .Org not desirable for the large base of players base of total war games
Only when somebody can come up with good answers to these questions, only then can a constructive and fruitful debate take place imo.
@Centurion:
That used to be the case. “Backroom” is still a special Member Group (just like Europa Barbarorum is) which gives you access to associated forums. Which in turn means only “Europa Barbarorum” members should be able to visit EBH and only “Backroom” members the Backroom.
However at some point the forum staff decided they'd like more souls in the Backroom and extended membership to automatically include every member. Backroom is still invisible for people not logged on as a member though.
Hello Tellos Athenaios,
I think we only auto opted people in when we created it, in other words, already existing members became member there right away.
yeah tellos you have to apply now. its pretty automatic i think but you still have too.
Very interesting thread I must add.
With my 5th year of membership slowly coming along, I feel the need to say that during my first two years I had some amazing times on the Org.
Funny to say, but it was a very lively board with lots of interesting people and I learned a lot from this place. I even met one member from the Org in real life!
Bottom line, and sorry for my short post, is that we eventually have to move on. I have to move on as well - I was in secondary school when I joined, now I'm less than one month away from finishing high school. Times change, you have to move on. I do hope the old guard stays along, because the Org needs to preserve its identity.
I for one will certainly be here. :bow:
Centurion1: pardon me, but i don't understand your point; i don't think i ever said that to be "accepted" means getting awards. Awards are a form of recognition and have nothing to do with acceptance.
In regards to Subotan's point about the badges/titles of Senior Member and awards, i personally find them harmless and beneficial in certain ways. Certainly worth having around imo. And the org awards have nothing to do with cliques as far as i know.
I was talking from the perspective of a new member. Of course, I'm probably talking rubbish, but that's a possibility which should be taken into account.
what im asking is when gollum does a member become accepted into the .org community overall i think the .org is very welcoming. look at young nerd hes already being embraced.......... lol.