Korean sword-rattling

Rotor:

I think SK has shown commendable restraint. The temptation to smart bomb an NK boat or two to make a point must have been compelling. Unfortunately, it wouldn't have done much more than their current response pattern.

Re: Japanese involvement:

They'll work on the naval side and provide awacs and sigint support. You will NOT see Japanese boots in Korea. There are WAY too many bad vibes from the past at play there for Japan to want to open that particular can of worms as well as a goodly cadre of domestic pacifists who want no Japanese military involvement in anything aside from the defense of Honshu. Short of a last-ditch defense of Pusan (which I don't think will happen again), the Japanese will not put ground troops in.

In fact Japan doing anything significant will likely prove counter-productive if the goal is to get China to drop NK. China may not like NK as much as it did; it still hates Japan much more so.

You mean aswacs I presume seamus?

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Only a certifiable loon would start a war when the yanks are testing this kind of tech

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So that's what that racket was Wednesday. Church attendance skyrocketed on Thursday, the local senior citizens and religiously-inclined convinced "the end" was near.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Only a certifiable loon would start a war when the yanks are testing this kind of tech

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Load the Hwacha!

According to the various sites linked by someone earlier in this thread, it looks like the biggest NK artillery cannot reach Seoul, even from the border. So it looks like the whole "Seoul will be razed to the ground as soon as the war starts" idea is a misconception.

do be a sport, and point us to those links.......... :)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...es!-%282009%29 This one here.

The only gun that can reach Seoul from the border is the M-1978 Koksan. All of them are actually buried far away from there and are aimed at the border and not at Seoul.

Of course ,they have Scuds and what not too. But artillery wise, NK couldn't flatten Seoul in a matter of hours, since they'd have to move said artillery way south.

awesome news, thank you.

i rest much easier knowing that Seoul is less likely to suffer obliteration upon the demented actions of the north korean clown of state. :)

The only outcome of a modern Korean war that can be predicted with certainty is that everyone on the peninsula will be royally screwed.

Here's a scenario for you:

North Korea invades and levels a few square miles of Seoul. The damage to the capital's infrastructure and the shift toward a war footing will cripple the South Korean economy. A few weeks later the North Korean army is being mopped up, special forces are crawling all over Pyongyang and every single nuclear facility, and the former state will soon be jointly occupied by China, the South, the US, and the UN. The already badly strained South Korean economy will now have to deal with millions of malnourished refugees and the lack of any significant public infrastructure. The rest of the world must either lend Korea hundreds of billions or prepare for its total economic collapse.

The most tragically overlooked consequence of the war will be the devastation of the unique and incredibly fragile ecosystem that has flourished in the DMZ for the past 60 years.

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Originally Posted by Azathoth

The rest of the world must either lend Korea hundreds of billions or prepare for its total economic collapse.

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A pittance really. We might as well, while we're at it. Half the world is on a bailout from my grandchildren's money as it is already.


:wall:

In some ways the peninsula makes the job easier.

South Korea would probably not need to go on a war footing. The North wouldn't survive long enough for this to be required. It's a sword made of pig iron - it might cause a wound, but it'll shatter. Between America, Japan and South Korea there's enough weaponry to smash anything that could be of offensive value.

Clear up is going to be a mess of course. But if rather than integrating the whole of the north aid is given as far as possible, but the line of integration only slowly goes north as fast as the South with assistance can cope. The narrowness of the border helps prevent a vast influx that would cause a logistical nightmare.

It might take weeks, it might take years. but getting over the culture shock and any die-hard nutters that want to fight to the death will take time - as will dismantling any bunkers or other subterranean surprises there are.

America, Japan will be pleased that this has been sorted and would help with both the military as well as the humanitarian aid - how many million tonnes of rice does Japan buy from America to take off the market? Might as well feed people with it.

~:smoking:

Most of the South Koreans I have spoken to, and I know quite a few, tell me that they do not want to see South Korea involved in a war right now. Many lives are at stake, with the threatened use of Nuclear weapons, and they don't wish to see the economic prosperity that South Korea has achieved, compared to the North, to be jeopardized. Perhaps this is why South Korea has not retaliated, but merely increased its defensive posture. I tend to agree with them at this time, but wonder how the North Korean government will interpret such a stance, whether it be weakness or resolve.

Though not related directly to the debate here's a nice BBC Documentary Glimpses of real North Korean life behind the facade.

That was fantastic, thanks a lot :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by spmetla

Though not related directly to the debate here's a nice BBC Documentary Glimpses of real North Korean life behind the facade.

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Do you know what "Potemkin village" means? That is what the western journalists will see and not the real North Korean life.

Another thing...

I just heard from the news that North Korea promised to start war when South Korea is not removing some speakers set up near the border. All these recent news remind me that Iraqi PR person who declared that Iraqi forces are winning the war against US even then when US troops were near Baghdad!

I think it's time for the people of North Korea to take matters in their own hands and get rid off Kim and his staff(was planning to say "stupid fat generals" but decided not to say it). It's Peoples "Republic of North Korea" and not "Kim's private property called North Korea" after all!

I watched this show on National Geographic a couple years ago. If you ever get a chance to watch it, do so. The abject, pants wetting, sphincter tightening fear displayed by the North Koreans interviewed, terrorized over getting their lines wrong, is sickening.

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Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

Do you know what "Potemkin village" means? That is what the western journalists will see and not the real North Korean life.

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Well obviously. But they still don't make a good show of it :no:

(And we do have that phrase in English :yes:)

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Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

I just heard from the news that North Korea promised to start war when South Korea is not removing some speakers set up near the border. All these recent news remind me that Iraqi PR person who declared that Iraqi forces are winning the war against US even then when US troops were near Baghdad!

I think it's time for the people of North Korea to take matters in their own hands and get rid off Kim and his staff(was planning to say "stupid fat generals" but decided not to say it). It's Peoples "Republic of North Korea" and not "Kim's private property called North Korea" after all!

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Easier said than done. In a Communist system, because of the nature of who controls the power in such states (I.e. the Party not the actual government), any attempt to politically reform North Korea can only come about from within the Party, and from the very top of it at that, which is of course not going to happen under current conditions.* Happily, if the example of the Soviet Union is anything to go by, there's an accelerator effect when the state is politically liberalised. A crack in the cell door will be thrown open by the prisoner, so to speak.

*This is of course discounting the near-suicidal method of open revolt against a Stalinist regime.

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I watched this show on National Geographic a couple years ago. If you ever get a chance to watch it, do so. The abject, pants wetting, sphincter tightening fear displayed by the North Koreans interviewed, terrorized over getting their lines wrong, is sickening.

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Link's dead.

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Link's dead.

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Yeah, unfortunately they want one to buy it on dvd.:shame: It's well worth watching, but I wouldn't pay for it. Hopefully they'll come to their senses and air it again.

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Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun

I just heard from the news that North Korea promised to start war when South Korea is not removing some speakers set up near the border. All these recent news remind me that Iraqi PR person who declared that Iraqi forces are winning the war against US even then when US troops were near Baghdad!

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Baghdad Bob.

No your thinking Comical Ali

Well, he's Baghdad Bob to us Americans.

I thought you were Hungarian or something.

Nope, I'm pure, 100% red-blooded American. I believe in Mom and apple pie. I'm proud to be a citizen of this great nation.

Demonoid et al haven't come up with anything so I probably would have to buy it to watch it :shrug:

No! 2-1! And the first half was going so well in the direction of the Marxists!

I have been fascinated by North Korea's presence in the World Cup. They really didn't play badly at all against Brazil.

I was wondering how on earth they had kit and boots, or more exactly where it was from. Not all their players have the same boots -but it didn't look like any of their kit was Western made. Chinese products?

Also, i heard on the commentary that the game wouldn't be screened (in North Korea) if it ended in a loss to DPRK -i've since read somewhere that the point (if true!) is moot as South Korea aren't forwarding the TV/satelite feed as part of the recent antagonism.

The 50 odd, identicaly clad, exclusively male DPRK "fans" are also a sight to see.

I'd be very intrigued to see anything y'all might have seen on how the rulers of DPRK are actually treating the event.

So far all i've seen is this: "North Korea celebrate flawless 8-0 win" ...

I'm actually more excited about the Iroquois Confederacy's Nationals playing in this summer's 2010 World Lacrosse Championship at Manchester.

The first game is, as far as I can tell, on July 15th: Team England vs Team Iroquois.

Can't wait! :jumping:

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Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah

I'm actually more excited about the Iroquois Confederacy's Nationals playing in this summer's 2010 World Lacrosse Championship at Manchester.

The first game is, as far as I can tell, on July 15th: Team England vs Team Iroquois.

Can't wait! :jumping:

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Bah feast your eyes on a real mans game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIIh...eature=related

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Originally Posted by alh_p

I have been fascinated by North Korea's presence in the World Cup. They really didn't play badly at all against Brazil.

I was wondering how on earth they had kit and boots, or more exactly where it was from. Not all their players have the same boots -but it didn't look like any of their kit was Western made. Chinese products?

Also, i heard on the commentary that the game wouldn't be screened (in North Korea) if it ended in a loss to DPRK -i've since read somewhere that the point (if true!) is moot as South Korea aren't forwarding the TV/satelite feed as part of the recent antagonism.

The 50 odd, identicaly clad, exclusively male DPRK "fans" are also a sight to see.

I'd be very intrigued to see anything y'all might have seen on how the rulers of DPRK are actually treating the event.

So far all i've seen is this: "North Korea celebrate flawless 8-0 win" ...

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Just so you know, some of the DPRK players wore Nike Mercurial Vapor boots.

Read - NIKE. Aka, AMERICAN.

Waow I stand corrected, do you have a source to confirm the boots they were wearing?

As to the kit, it is made by an Italian firm, Legea.

There does alos seem to eb some reporting of the match but in (almost certainly) externaly facing English language NK media:

http://www.nkeconwatch.com/category/...otball-soccer/

Whatever has happened to the 'missing' North Korean players at the World Cup?

Defected? Sent home? Locked up in a cellar of the hotel for re-education? Eaten by crocodiles?

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JOHANNESBURG (AFP) – Football's world governing body Fifa on Friday denied rumours that four North Korea players listed as no-shows for their World Cup match against Brazil have gone missing in South Africa. FIFA said it had "no information" that the four players had gone missing, amid reports they may have tried to defect.

The official teamsheet for the North Koreans' 2-1 defeat to Brazil on Tuesday listed substitute goalkeeper Kim Myong-Won, An Chol-Hyok, Kim Kyong-Il and Pak Sung-Hyok as "absent". "We have no information that the players may have disappeared," a FIFA spokesman said. "Our liaison officer with North Korea hasn't signalled anything to us."

The North Korean team is expected to hold a press conference in Johannesburg at 5:00 pm (1500 GMT) on Friday, ahead of their next match against Portugal in Cape Town on Monday.

An official at the South Korean embassy in Johannesburg said it had not picked up any out-of-the-ordinary movements regarding the North Korean squad. Media access to the players from one of the world's most reclusive nations has been extremely restricted since they arrived in South Africa to contest their first World Cup in 44 years.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100618...lwc2010prkfifa

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Oh, the suspense of it all!