Bah. Oh well. I'll just walk to the nearest settlement to the Seleucids we have, recruit an army and go take me some land.
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Bah. Oh well. I'll just walk to the nearest settlement to the Seleucids we have, recruit an army and go take me some land.
I'll do it tomorrow. Some people asked me to move their characters so I'll do that at the same time.
Ash, you didn't by any chance actually play that battle yourself, did you? I ask only because the rules require that battle to be autocalced, and, well, I think an autocalced victory like that is kind of improbable.
It looks likely enough for an AI seige defence to me.
Autocalc. If I had played, we most likely would have lost. I started playing this mod only when I joined this game, 1 game with the Romans, and I'm being kicked around by both the Carthaginians and the Epirotes :smash::smash::smash:
But I am getting better though!
I've been playing EB for about 5 years, but pretty much my only experience with phalanx based armies was WoTB, I'm a bit worried about what's going to happen when I reach Paratoinon. Give me some men with bows on horses and I'm in my element, slow dudes with big spears I'm not so hot with.
Wait, the whole game is autocalc? Where's the fun in that?
No no, only battles where no one's avatar is present are auto-calced.
Anyway, call me positively surprised, then. I was sure that we'd get AC screwed there.
It's okay to take the save now, right?
Yes, go ahead.
Quite surprised as well. I was expecting us to lose. I was disappointed when I saw the AI initiate battle right away, but we've got a little breather. Don't expect it to last though.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
Ashurnasirpal II - You can decline those suitable husbands because if they are not accepted right away then later when you want to accept them then they die.
Alright I'll do that. But should I accept them in the future?
I suggest anybody with a daughter/sister of marriable age set some points on who they'll accept. eg not older than 30, must be Makedone, not dull etc.
Never mind, look away, nothing to see here...
We must discuss Kleopatra's future then! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
I asked in the council thread and didn't get a reply. Silence = Implied consent. :wink: Won't happen again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II
Can the Basileious move my guy to the Holy Land while I'm gone? I give him permission.
If possible, I also give him permission to use my gunds to purchase some men to supplement my general to take a settlement.
TCV - I think you forgot to upload the save?
edit: Oh.. the battle took place during the AI turn..
Yeah, it's currently in Ash's hands, awaiting full Chancellor report.
TCV - Did you occupy Damaskos? Need this to calculate the income.
Yes, I did. It gave a twohundred-something number; maybe I should have taken note of it. :shame:
Edit: realized that I had the save from just after the battle but before the occupation. Seems it was 203 mnai.
If there were no casualties(civilian ones) in Damaskos then it doesn't matter.
I posted the save kinda late today because of the battle that had to be fought. Tomorrow I'm out of town all day. I'll try to end the turn in the morning before I leave, but there'll be no report. If I see anything major, I'll just leave it as is, and change it in the evening / next day.
So what kind of units can we recruit privately? Only that which is available from the buildings?
The rules don't seem to set any limits, so I imagine we can recruit mercs if we want. Cue everybody sailing off to Cape Whatever it's called just south of Sparta.
We've asked some very specific questions in the Royal Treasury thread. I hope IK goes through the exact rules, if any, soon. I want a delicious army.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
Yes, you can recruit them. For you it's much easier to sail there since you own the Trireis fleet! ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
Here you can find my answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Delicious army? Are you planning to eat them!Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCordis
Really? I thought it would have come under the control of Ash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
Trireis were recruited with private funds. Upkeep is payed using the private funds. That makes it a private unit. Since you payed the initial 1500 mnai and are named in the Law E1.2 then you will control/own that fleet. Whether you allow Ash to use it is up to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
Keep in mind that the entire council pays for its upkeep and will be understandably upset if you start using it for transporting Cretan pottery to your estate. ;)
I'd be more interested in the archers than the pottery...
I'm going to find another partner for plan "overthrow Tyrranical Celtic Viking" if you can't keep quiet about our plans for bringing the army in in pots...
Next you'll be letting on about bringing the Thessalian cavalry hidden in rugs. :stare:
:clown:
Where is our chancellor with that report, I've a battle to fight. :smash:
Sorry got sidetracked :oops: Posting it in a few minutes!
That's it! I'm banning all pottery and rugs! Also, all men who refuse to identify themselves and carries "Death to TCV!" banners.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
And I just ordered new tunics with "Death to TCV!" written on the backs.. Oh well..Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
Hah! Make that into a brand name and give me 50% of the profits and those are okay. ~;)
Sorry everyone. :bow: It looks like I no longer have a functioning RTW disc to play on. I'll have to drop out for now. The heir should go to someone who has the time to be more active anyway. When I can get back in I'l try with someone a little lower ranking. Hopefully by then I'll have lost some of the hotseats I'm in. :clown:
Sorry to hear that, Zim. Would it help at all if I had the Margrave take you out of V&V? ~;)
Now, if I need to elect a new heir, well... let the auction begin!
I'd rather think we need a player for Euergetes. Maybe one of the current players can switch avatars? Or find someone new?
Zim - There are ways to play RTW that doesn't require disk(such as getting a new RTW from GamersGate or from another site like that since these don't need disk to play). However, I'm sad to hear that you are out.
If no one wants Euergetes then I will kill him off blaming that mysterious illness.
However, if one of the current players decide to take him then his old avatar will be killed off.
Also, if someone takes heir then he should remember that he can't transfer his personal funds from an old avatar to Euergetes. He can leave his fortune to another player who then could gift it back when the player have assumed the role of Euergetes.
Perhaps a post in the thread in the EB forum that the faction heir is available might find a new player?
Good idea! ~:)
If we do not find someone soon for Euergetes, I wouldn't simply kill off the character. I think we should rather go along with that illness story. After all, he was "historically" the third Ptolemaic ruler. We'll eventually get someone to play him. In the meantime, we could reassign his Royal Army/split it/etc. through edicts/laws in Council. The eventual player would have to deal with that situation when he comes in. The character is young enough to endure till then.
I will play Euergetes, though I assume it will be pretty awkward for you to sort out all the finances + private units.
I will however, sacrifice my most loved Bothos to keep a much better game going.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Or that could work :beam:
You can still write Bothos' Will and leave everything you belong to another player(who then could give it back to you but do not have to).Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCordis
I assume you will kill off Bothos then?
And also if I give you Bothos' possessions will you donate them all to Euergetes?
As this is really just an OOC change of characters, shouldn't we just eliminate all of Bothos' possessions? Otherwise, Euergetes ends up with twice as much money as anyone else. So early in the game, this seems unbalancing.
Yes, I will then kill off Bothos. Perhaps you have some ideas how you want him to die? Send a PM if you do. You know, this is a good story material. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCordis
If you post his will in a public(IC) thread and leave everything to Zoarchos then yes, I will give it back to you.
Euergetes doesn't have any possessions, just 2326 mnai. It would be unfair not to let him have Bothos' possessions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II
I only want to give him the money and estate, which I would have had if I'd played the heir all along.
I want Bothos to die in a womanising related accident. The best kind.
Either way is unbalanced, either he gets more money than everyone else, or loses out as Eurgetes hadn't invested in anything. Just switching Bothos' estates/money/units over to Eurgetes and deleting Eurgetes funds is the only way that's fair on everybody really. To be honest I'm not bothered if he gets it all though.
Well yeah. What he said :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
OK, that's good for me. To make it a little fairer on everyone else the private units will be disbanded.
So the way I see it: Bothos' money/estate (+ supervisors) will be added to Eurgetes, whilst all of Eurgetes money will be deleted.
I hope that's quite fair and people will agree that an active Kleronomous Basileus is better than an RGB. :]
I don't think you need to disband the private units, they were paid for in good faith, so I've no problem with them going to Eurgetes. I guess we should wait for I-K's thoughts though.
Well, if we add Bothos' and Euergetes' money together we would get 6378 mnai. 6 players have more mnai than that. So, I don't think that it is that unbalanced.
It's up to LeoCordis whether he disbands them or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
Just to point it out, if he keeps Bothos money and adds that to Eurgete's money there'd still be 6 players who would have more money than him. ~;)
Edit: Awww, Ibn beat me to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
I guess if the private units are disbanded that would be fine.
Right, keep the money and disband the units. Hopefully everyone is fine with that.
Finally on a rule note, am I allowed to move the ships with the Heir's Royal Army on towards Tarsos, or must the Chancellor do that?
I would say that you can do that.
Actually, as long as he hauls ass to Tarsos with that army, I'll be happy! It's been sitting there since the beginning eating up any scraps I could have used to upgrade this dirt poor kingom!
And the edict allows you to move the ships to get to Tarsos! After that, they're mine! MIIIIIIINE!!!!
It might be a good idea to move the triereis with the transport fleet Leo, I think the Seleukid fleet was sunk but it might be hiding somewhere. It would be an inglorious end to your short heirdom to be drowned...
Right, well my army can't even reach the ships yet. I'll try and haul ass to Tarsos and take it by the next council term. :]
:clown:
Huh.. something is really really wrong with the table system of this board.. Was trying to fix some small changes in the Library and basically the whole table went crazy..
If you remove ="class: outer_border", it looks normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
That's the catch: if you want to attack eleutheroi settlements with your private units, there's nothing I can do to stop you. It's your right. You just need my permission to enter their territory first. :grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhughthom
As much as I'd like to agree and it could make sense IC, as for the rules, in the way they are written now, this is incorrect. Maybe Ibn-Khaldun could re-write them but this would seem unfair at this point in the game. There is no special mention that Eleutheroi are neutral all-over in the rules. So, going by the rules, anyone can move their avatar into Eleutheroi territory.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
This could of course be remedied with a proper edict, or, say an OOC vote to change the rules? Or maybe just consensus, as I'd agree, RP-wise, it would make sense.
Another loophole seems to be that, the Chancellor, controlling the diplomats, could theoretically make peace with anyone without consulting the council or Basileos.
For anyone who'd think that such control by the Basileos would be too harsh, let's just remember that this game isn't really made to encourage loyalty and togetherness :devil:
Also, I've started a little story on Meleagros' past which I will try to have catch up to current events. Trying to flesh out the character and to perhaps create some motivations for interaction beyond the rules :beam:
You can always pass a Law that is much more powerful than Edict. However, we can always change that rule during the next Council session.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II
Well, if you sign a peace with the Seleucids and give them several provinces in process then I doubt that it encourages tegetherness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II
The eleutheroi is a faction. It's a special faction, but it's a faction all the same, so it doesn't need any special mention. The special treatment they get is that declaring war on one of its provinces doesn't put us at war with all the rest. (As well as that strategoi can attack their provinces with private units whenever they want, apparently.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II
I do agree with this, though. Factional diplomacy should be in complete control of the Basileus and the Council; it doesn't make much sense otherwise. Especially not if the Chancellor can just unilaterally decide to give away the Basileus' provinces without his consent. Imagine if the Chancellor wish to go to war with the Basileus. What's to stop him from signing a peace with one of our enemies in which all of the Basileus' land is given away (except the capital obviously) right before he declares war, so that the Basileus loses recruitment grounds and scraps the income for his army?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II
Loved the story. Can't wait for the rest of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II
If the Basileus forbids entering an Eleutheroi province then players can always turn towards the Chancellor who could declare war on them. This will of course create tensions between the Basileus and the Chancellor but I think that is only good for the game. ~:)
About the diplomacy, propose law that give the power to sign peace treaties to the Council or to the Basileus.
I have a question about army size. Right now only the Polemarchos may lead 16 units in battle. How is the Basileus leading that huge army then? I didn't see anywhere in the rules that the Basileus and/or heir are exempt from this rule.
Also, in effect, without being polemarchos the only other way to get to lead more than 8 units is to have won a ton of victories vs non-brigands?
Well, yes, they're a faction. But as far as the rules are concerned, we're always at war with them and there is no mention that they are a 'special' faction. I might be just arguing semantics here, but it is not in the rules and it should be if we are to stick by it. I understand there was a previous game like this one and that might have been the rule there. If we still want to use that rule, then it has to be written, it can't just be assumed.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
I completely agree. This is just an issue of common sense. Especially for province trading. But I think its fair to say provinces can't be traded without their owner's consent, and the Basileos owns about everything!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
Since we're early in the game, I think these two points should just be clarified in the rules section, rather then left to some comments in the OOC thread. It'll help in the long run :yes:
Thanks :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoCordis
It says he 'owns a royal army' and later describes the royal army as having minimum 12 units. It's not clear, but I assume it means that as long as it is the royal army, the Basileos can simply command anything in it? It could also be made more clear :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
You're kind of correct yet incorrect at the same time, I think, if that even makes sense. We can't be at peace with them unless we had modded the files so that we started out that way, and then at our first war we could never sign peace again anyway. To exploit this would not be fair, and in any case, the rule that johnhughthoum quoted does imply that, if he uses any non-private unit, we must declare war on that settlement before he can attack it. This also implies that the enemy status against the eleutheroi faction is not the same as an enemy status against any other faction, as there is no need to declare war on any specific Seleukid settlement (for example) before you can attack it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashturnasirpal II
This does make the Chancellor's power #7 superfluous though, doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
Quote:
(7) Can declare war on any faction who have an army in a Ptolemaioi province.
The Basileus doesn't have any cap on how many units he can command and is obviously not affected by the powers or penalties of positions that he doesn't hold. Since it's listed as a power it wouldn't affect me even if I was the Polemarchos, because I am also the Basileus, and the Basileus' power is greater. It's kind of like "with a car, you can travel to the end of this continent. But you also have a boat, so you can travel even further!" If it had been a penalty, I'm not 100% sure, but I'd assume that the Basileus' powers would still nullify it, since it is the higher position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Regardless of that, though, for said reasons none of this is relevant to the current situation, though I'd like confirmation for future reference.
Tbh, it seems as if no one read the rules properly before the game started.
I'll answer shortly to your questions. I'll set up a special thread for talk about the Rules and where you can propose any Rule change during the Council session.
I completely agree, except, find that in the rules. It isn't there. My point is: if its a rule, than it should be stipulated so as clearly as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
Good idea. I read the rules, but they're not always entirely clear and consistent. We can deduce much of the spirit of the game, but the clear-cut isn't there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
What are you talking about? I just told you where in the rules it is. Here, I'll show you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashurnasirpal II
This says that to attack an Eleutheroi settlement with any non-private unit, it needs a declaration of war first. This means thatQuote:
Strategoi can attack Eleutheroi settlements with their Private units(and only with them) even if war has not been declared against that settlement.
a) being at war with the Eleutheroi is not the same thing as being at war against any other faction when it comes to individual settlements
and
b) Eleutheroi settlements are considered at least neutral, since you don't need to declare war against someone you're already at war with.
Now, is this clearly put? No, but this is the only logical interpretation of it that I can see.
Oh sorry I had misread your last post!