Objections to the Sex Trade

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Originally Posted by SoFarSoGood

I tend to agree that in a 'perfect world' sex tourism, or whatever you want to call this sort of holiday, wouldn't happen ....

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totally agree....

if the world was perfect they'd come to your house.

Supply and demand - most women can get it for free or just go without; enough men can't, and are prepared to pay to do so to create a market.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Ronin

totally agree....

if the world was perfect they'd come to your house.

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My Wife might object.

If there is a product someone will pay for it.

People buy garden gnomes, and the larger crime, display them openly!

Isn’t this vestigial slavery?

As for the PI I don’t think their women are exploited in the sex industry. Some other countries yes but not there. Find some place a bit seedyer to complain about.

Of course women are exploited in the sex industry, the Philipines are notorious for it. Not saying MRD did but many do

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Of course women are exploited in the sex industry, the Philipines are notorious for it. Not saying MRD did but many do

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Exploitation is also a word with many meanings.

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Originally Posted by SoFarSoGood

Also if MRD is really an active serviceman I do not think civilians who sit safely at home have the right to dictate how an off duty serviceman spends his R&R. I have a few friends who have been on active duty tours and they rend to drink alot once they get back. If you disagreed with drinking would you also ban the off-duty serviceman drinking? Hell these guys have put their lives on the line for us and our countries. Even if you would not do this sort of thing yourself (as I wouldn't) I do not think I have the right to dictate my morality on others, particularly when they have seen and done things that I cannot imagine in the service of my country.

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While I do appreciate our military, putting their activities beyond moral concern seems dangerous. Yes, they could be putting their lives in incredible danger but putting them up on a pedestal and having an automatic excuse for their actions seems like it would create some degree of military worship which tends not to be great for democracy.

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Exploitation is also a word with many meanings.

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i.e. And naturally if you get to enjoy yourself, those women cannot be being exploited.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

i.e. And naturally if you get to enjoy yourself, those women cannot be being exploited.

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I exploit you for enjoyment with every one of your posts; and my intentions are less benevolent than MRD's.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

i.e. And naturally if you get to enjoy yourself, those women cannot be being exploited.

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Which is not to say all prostitutes enjoy what they do all the time... any more than any other partner does.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

Exploitation is also a word with many meanings.

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Sure, but sex tourism (again not talking about you MRD) will always be ugly no matter what, and you don't know what's behind the scenes especially when with a hand of money that can buy you everything you want. If you pay a lot to go to an expensive sex-club or hire a class-escort it's probably ok, I got no problem with that. But paying dirt-poor women to have sex with me even if I am not that badlooking, I wouldn't do that

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Originally Posted by Vladimir

I exploit you for enjoyment with every one of your posts; and my intentions are less benevolent than MRD's.

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You give yourself way too much credit.

The PI does have a sex exploitation problem. It also has a human trafficking problem. It also has a predophilia problem. And they are all exaggerated in the media, especially the trafficking issue,

Meanwhile:
- Those problems are regulated/policed in the legitimate industry and establishment

- Only a portion of the above clubs are geared at tourists, others are geared toward locals, which proves further that this is not a cultural taboo

- The bread and butter of the back alley, underhanded sex industry are the local nationals who use it, supply it with workers and keep quiet about it. The Filipinos are exploiting Filipinos at a far higher level than pervert Austrians and Japanese, it's just that the tourists net higher profit margins so they get all the attention. When the tourist season wanes and tourism drops 60%, the local national clubs both legal and shady are still thriving. None of this has to do with me

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i.e. And naturally if you get to enjoy yourself, those women cannot be being exploited.

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So if there's no evidence that there is exploitation, there must be exploitation?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

So if there's no evidence that there is exploitation, there must be exploitation?

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Of course there is, you can't be serious.

Just like in your and my country.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Just like in your and my country.

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Doesn't mean I have to like it.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Doesn't mean I have to like it.

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Not suggesting you do. But in a back alley where someone is being abused or trafficked, is this really the fault of the guy legally engaging in the sex trade out in the open

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Of course there is, you can't be serious.

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I was referring to Dump's situation in particular.

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Originally Posted by Vuk

Response is to the opening post of this thread.

You took advantage of dirt poor women in a third world country for sex and picked up two underaged girls? What do you want, a cookie? Having sex with a desperate, dirt poor woman who would only spit on you if you paid her money, and then giving her more than the asking rate does not make you a hero...just a poorer sap than the others.

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really can't agree. no harm no foul.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Not suggesting you do. But in a back alley where someone is being abused or trafficked, is this really the fault of the guy legally engaging in the sex trade out in the open

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imho opinion yes absolutely. It can't be helped but you don't have to relish in the cynism involved.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Not suggesting you do. But in a back alley where someone is being abused or trafficked, is this really the fault of the guy legally engaging in the sex trade out in the open

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First of all, prostitution is not legal in the Philippines.

Second of all, entire communities were set and were living off American soldiers only to disappear when those soldiers moved, which means that yes, you are supporting prostitution if you pay for sex.

Third off all, only 2% of the women involved in prostitution in the Philippines actually think it's good money for easy work. Other 98% do it out of necessity or were coerced.

I'm not judging you, or saying that you are a bad person. Heck, if I had visited PI, I'd do all the things you did minus paying for sex, before or after sex, but saying it's all fine and dandy, everybody does it and the girls like it, is totally untrue.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Third off all, only 2% of the women involved in prostitution in the Philippines actually think it's good money for easy work. Other 98% do it out of necessity or were coerced.

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Coerced is different. But if you're doing it rather than something else, you do think it's good money. Actions speak louder than words.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Coerced is different. But if you're doing it rather than something else, you do think it's good money. Actions speak louder than words.

~:smoking:

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Well, it's not really the case of "oh, I want a Ferrari on top of a Mercedes", it's more like "I want to have three meals instead of two".

Anyhoo, people going over there, spending money, raising the price, attract more people in the business which has an effect of more girls opting to do it and more bad people willing to force girls to do it. Then there's more money in it, more of it goes to the police and the politicians, increasing corruption etc etc... It's a spiral.

Never said it was. Of the options available, they chose this one. The best Western ones might make the former call.

Money spent on anything can cause increased corruption. Hell, sending aid causes increased corruption.

~:smoking:

I don't agree with the statement of, "Whether we like it or not, it is there. I am just one actor in a seven billion person play."

If MRD is serious about his restaurant/bar, that is what is needed. Real stable jobs that allow women to not get into that seedy prostitution world.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

First of all, prostitution is not legal in the Philippines.

Second of all, entire communities were set and were living off American soldiers only to disappear when those soldiers moved, which means that yes, you are supporting prostitution if you pay for sex.

Third off all, only 2% of the women involved in prostitution in the Philippines actually think it's good money for easy work. Other 98% do it out of necessity or were coerced.

I'm not judging you, or saying that you are a bad person. Heck, if I had visited PI, I'd do all the things you did minus paying for sex, before or after sex, but saying it's all fine and dandy, everybody does it and the girls like it, is totally untrue.

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Street prostitution is not legal.

Go Go bars, where you pay to release a woman from work, is prefectly legal. It has many names and many versions, be it "bar fines" or "early work release," but make no mistake that everyone, including the feds, know exactly what it is, and they have not banned it.

Would like to see source for 2% figure. Would also be curious how typical superstitous, catholic guilt plays into answers. Would also like to ponder the definition of "prostitution" in this case, as the girl who picked me up in the mall and wanted "boom boom" in exchange for financial support did not consider it prostitution. Furthermore, there is no shortage of college aged girls living with older men, locals included, as live in maids and what nots, where sex is most obviously happening but not considered prostitution

Also, I never said all girls like it. However, when given the opportunity to leave the business without suffering financially, they stay. Greed? Laziness? Fear? I don't know. But some stay

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

Street prostitution is not legal.

Go Go bars, where you pay to release a woman from work, is prefectly legal. It has many names and many versions, be it "bar fines" or "early work release," but make no mistake that everyone, including the feds, know exactly what it is, and they have not banned it.

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They can't ban it, because it is a legal loophole. Prostitution, as in escorting, works the same way in Europe or America. Girls get payed for their time and anything that happens during that time is between two consenting adults, officially. Legally, it's no different from me going for a haircut, chatting up the hairdresser girl and having sex with her. Morally, it's a different story.

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Would like to see source for 2% figure. Would also be curious how typical superstitous, catholic guilt plays into answers. Would also like to ponder the definition of "prostitution" in this case, as the girl who picked me up in the mall and wanted "boom boom" in exchange for financial support did not consider it prostitution. Furthermore, there is no shortage of college aged girls living with older men, locals included, as live in maids and what nots, where sex is most obviously happening but not considered prostitution

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Possibly. East Asians generally have more relaxed view on sex, some attribute it to buddhism, others to something else. Hell, Japanese porn is one of the most perverted I've ever seen, but try to going to Japan and picking up girls like you do in the PI.

It is not a "cultural thing". It is a necessity based on economic hardship, not that different morally to going to some African country and having child labour in your factory, cause it is tolerated or there's a legal loophole, or the law enforcement is corrupt and you can pay them to look the other way.

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Also, I never said all girls like it. However, when given the opportunity to leave the business without suffering financially, they stay. Greed? Laziness? Fear? I don't know. But some stay

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Very few like it.

Why don't you conduct a little experiment? All those girls with whom you exchanged emails, send them in the next email that you've gone bust basically for whatever made up reason, that there's is no chance that you'll be coming back to PI in the foreseeable future and probably ever because you'll have to work some low paying job.

See how quickly they stop being interested in you.

Dude. It Is a cultural thing. Not just historically for islanders in that region to be open sexually, but considering the level of grift and the tradition of having a "western sponsor" for financial support that ingrains it into their society and it thereby becomes a cutlural thing.

Of course finances take part. But your above definition makes it a cultural thing. You admit it yourself. Cybercafes filled with dozens of young women courting money from foreign boyfriends makes it a cultural thing

As for your experiment, there are several who likely would and several who would not. If by "interested" you are implying marriage/boyfriend, this is not what it is and I have been clear on that from the beginning. I am well aware of the grift game, which is why I want to do PI work there. Also, you are falsely equating prostitution with a girl having a sponsor, or a girl having an online boyfriend. Not the same, by anyones standards. Many of these girles never intend to meet the men, and many of the men know that they realistically can never make it to the Phil