Speaking of Israel...

Reason why it is such a mess is because after the initial partition, Egypt and Jordan annexed Gaza and the Westbank and alienated the citizens by not granting citizenship. These then declared war on Israel, and got stomped with Israel taking those areas and Sinai in the peace-deal. Israel since voluntary gave up these lands and Sinai to the respective parties involved.

A solution would be to build settlements in Egypt and Jordan and allow the Palestinians to emigrate to them and be granted respective citizenship. Israel then annexes the Gaza-strip and West-Bank, integrating the remaining citizens. This would be a death-blow to the Palestinian state, but if this is done correctly, it might produce the most ideal solution for everyone involved, even if they are not happy with it.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

Reason why it is such a mess is because after the initial partition, Egypt and Jordan annexed Gaza and the Westbank and alienated the citizens by not granting citizenship. These then declared war on Israel, and got stomped with Israel taking those areas and Sinai in the peace-deal. Israel since voluntary gave up these lands and Sinai to the respective parties involved.

A solution would be to build settlements in Egypt and Jordan and allow the Palestinians to emigrate to them and be granted respective citizenship. Israel then annexes the Gaza-strip and West-Bank, integrating the remaining citizens. This would be a death-blow to the Palestinian state, but if this is done correctly, it might produce the most ideal solution for everyone involved, even if they are not happy with it.

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You dare to advocate a one-state solution? Kudos to you sir, though you will catch flack for doing so.

I have not heard any better answer put forward though....and two-state solutions are either pipe dreams or mild embellishments on exactly the conditions we have now.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

You dare to advocate a one-state solution? Kudos to you sir, though you will catch flack for doing so.

I have not heard any better answer put forward though....and two-state solutions are either pipe dreams or mild embellishments on exactly the conditions we have now.

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Unfortunately, that is the pragmatic answer to the two-states upon one piece of land issue which has highest chance of success, it isn't the ideal answer. It is also flawed due to the very same reasons the Oslo accords came about which the 'two-state' solution was meant to be the answer. Perhaps Palestine to be an autonomous region governed under Israel? There are no 'right' answers and it parallels the Balkan situation a lot.

Alternatives such as 'Israel and Palestine' merger are also possible, but the biggest issue is the Palestinian Refugees which will cause Israel to veto that solution instantly. There is a big diaspora outside of Israel/Palestine and these are ill-treated by Egypt and Jordan. Israel isn't the only 'bad guy' which people like to comment on. It isn't perfect but there is more that everyone else can do to make it better, especially Egypt and Jordan. Lebanon and Syria being rather excused at the moment due to their own internal conflicts.

Israel's plan is clear enough. They won't allow any viable Palestinian state. They disrupt, destroy and starve the economy, abuse the people and confiscate the land. They won't lay out any possible route that any sane Palestinian would accept.

Attachment 13634

Three kids playing on the beach blown up by Israeli jets. How can anyone sane, sanction that? (I said sane Fragony).

They were hiding a rocket cache underneath their sandcastles, duh.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Israel's plan is clear enough. They won't allow any viable Palestinian state. They disrupt, destroy and starve the economy, abuse the people and confiscate the land. They won't lay out any possible route that any sane Palestinian would accept.

Attachment 13634

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Sorry, that picture is inaccurate. Palestine pretty much didn't exist in 1948-1967
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordani..._the_West_Bank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupat...Strip_by_Egypt
Also, the picture actually misses out the Six-Day war too, where Israel become this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...erritories.svg
Sinai was returned in 1979
Oslo Accords occured in 1993

The annex of the West Bank doubled Jordan's population, a large majority which isn't accepted by the state and is part of a refugee crisis. Egypt were equally greedy with Gaza. When Israeli's gave up these possessions, it was on the promise of peace, they traded those lands for security.

A lot of solutions being pushed force Israel to lose security and the constant rocket attacks don't do any favours, such as demanding the return of the Palestinian diaspora which are 3-4 generations of Palestinians who have never lived in Palestine (Awkward, considering Israel's concept..)

Israel is not perfect, but the dangerous thing to do is flip to a position where Israel is the only 'bad guy'. The whole area is pretty much responsible for the absolute mess, including old British and French policies dating from the end of the Ottoman Empire and the Balfour Declaration.

@Seamus Fermanagh, funnily enough, just reminded myself. Last few years, there has been a 'Three State' solution since Hamas won the election, and it was overthrown in the West-Bank, leading to Palestine split in two, before the recent reunification government which Israel has opposed (due to Hamas)

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Three kids playing on the beach blown up by Israeli jets. How can anyone sane, sanction that? (I said sane Fragony).

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Or observant, look at the upper right corner of the pic, at the holes in the sand and the stones. How many times can you count the exact same objects. Pic is photoshopped. That boy is probably laying in the rubbles.

edit:lol on the left, from halfway, odd sand they got there on these beaches, two types.

Reuters Reuters Reuters how could you miss all that.

Bullshit story.

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

Sorry, that picture is inaccurate. Palestine pretty much didn't exist in 1948-1967
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordani..._the_West_Bank
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupat...Strip_by_Egypt
Also, the picture actually misses out the Six-Day war too, where Israel become this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...erritories.svg
Sinai was returned in 1979
Oslo Accords occured in 1993

The annex of the West Bank doubled Jordan's population, a large majority which isn't accepted by the state and is part of a refugee crisis. Egypt were equally greedy with Gaza. When Israeli's gave up these possessions, it was on the promise of peace, they traded those lands for security.

A lot of solutions being pushed force Israel to lose security and the constant rocket attacks don't do any favours, such as demanding the return of the Palestinian diaspora which are 3-4 generations of Palestinians who have never lived in Palestine (Awkward, considering Israel's concept..)

Israel is not perfect, but the dangerous thing to do is flip to a position where Israel is the only 'bad guy'. The whole area is pretty much responsible for the absolute mess, including old British and French policies dating from the end of the Ottoman Empire and the Balfour Declaration.

@Seamus Fermanagh, funnily enough, just reminded myself. Last few years, there has been a 'Three State' solution since Hamas won the election, and it was overthrown in the West-Bank, leading to Palestine split in two, before the recent reunification government which Israel has opposed (due to Hamas)

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Yes everyone is responsible. It's all equal.

Israelis and Palestinians both have passports?
Both have functioning economies?
Both have state of the art weapon technology?
Both can freely move around their own nation?
Both have killed over 200 people in the last week?
Both confiscate each others land?
Both have a vote?

The reality is that one apartheid state is doing everything to expel or exterminate a population who they fear, hate and see as inferior.

The acid test is how Israelis treat Israeli Arabs. Badly, is the answer.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Or observant, look at the upper right corner of the pic, at the holes in the sand and the stones. How many times can you count the exact same objects. Pic is photoshopped. That boy is probably laying in the rubbles.

edit:lol on the left, from halfway, odd sand they got there on these beaches, two types.

Reuters Reuters Reuters how could you miss all that.

Bullshit story.

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You really are a ville and delusional man. Welcome to my ignore list.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

You really are a ville and delusional man. Welcome to my ignore list.

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Haha, you probably can't read this but you have fallen for Pallywood.

For those who don't ignore me, judge for yourself.

Warning, the image of the dead kid doesn't get any less unsettling because of the photoshop, click at own risk.

https://mobile.twitter.com/sheikhNB/...152960/photo/1

That's a nice line of holes in the right-upper corner, nice line of exactly the same holes. The stones, the Japanese couldn't do it any better, perfect really. Nice composition.

Is there any beer on Idaho's ignore list, sounds like a nice place. Sorry mia muca you ain't too bright.

Alas the ignore button hasn't worked.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5591776
So the photo shopping was also 4d mind photo shopping that included the watching foreign journalists. Still, I suppose, like the Israelis, you don't really see these people as human so you don't care.

A lot of outright calls for ethnic cleansing of Arabs from the Israeli citizenry lately.

I think I hinted a year ago that much of the problem stems from the fact that:

Most of the liberal, Westernized Ashkenazi Jews were killed in the Holocaust or were already in America.

Soviet expat Jews, many of whom reactionary right-wing, streamed into America and Israel from the 1970s on and shifted the political climate.

Most of the rest of the Israeli Jews are Sephardi/Mizrahi Jews, heavily steeped in the Middle-Eastern milieu.

To sum up:

5 of the 6-million Israeli Jews are mostly-conservative, either ex-Communist or Middle-Eastern born-and-bred.


Now, because of the geopolitical situation of Israel's region, the only realist political option Israel has is to gradually (some might say insidiously) colonize all the land they can within their putative borders such that the "two-state solution" becomes moot and Israel's internal security improves due to demographic homogeneity (where it matters). This is inevitable as long as Israel and its neighbors are governed and populated by religious conservatives.

TLDR: The hell with all of these savages. Only time will sort them out.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Alas the ignore button hasn't worked.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5591776
So the photo shopping was also 4d mind photo shopping that included the watching foreign journalists. Still, I suppose, like the Israelis, you don't really see these people as human so you don't care.

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That's what you think. Got any Palestinian friends? I know more about how these things work than you ever will, unless you can answer the question: do I know any people who are actually from there? Because I do, I know a whole lot better what things are like you do because I get it from people who are from there. The first victims are those that are less radical. The second ones are the now-so-called radicals called Hamas. The third will be Hamas because they will be replaced by even more radical movements who will be aided in seizing anything that now belongs to Hamas. That is why Hamas doesn't want a state, they are themselve a target if they get it. Ever thought about that. You didn't did you, but feel free to question my sanity.

Edit: lol, so it was a photoshopping, saw it way before you/they did.

Hamas and the politicians are scum. As are 99% of all politicians. However the people have a right to a normal life. Israel won't allow that. They either provoke a reaction which is used to justify their oppression, or just continue to strangle, steal and starve the occupied territories.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Edit: lol, so it was a photoshopping, saw it way before you/they did.

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the fact that particular image was a photoshop isn't really relevant because the event DID happen and everyone agrees that it happened - if all it takes for you to ignore the reckless bloodshed is the Western Media using a photoshopped image then I really don't know what to say...

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Hamas and the politicians are scum. As are 99% of all politicians. However the people have a right to a normal life. Israel won't allow that. They either provoke a reaction which is used to justify their oppression, or just continue to strangle, steal and starve the occupied territories.

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That's just a pretty rediculous thing to say considering that they get more aid than any other people in the world. I feel sorry for the non-political Palestinians but not more than that. If I would have to give an honest answer it would indeed be that I don't really care about them, but neither does the Arab world so why should I. I don't mean them any harm but theyare a victim of circumstances, what I want and don't want has nothing to do with it, bigger things at work there. Hamas is basicly Iran having a proxy. I am not a coldblooded person I hate hearing about the misery that's going on right now, but who's to blame really?

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

the fact that particular image was a photoshop isn't really relevant because the event DID happen and everyone agrees that it happened - if all it takes for you to ignore the reckless bloodshed is the Western Media using a photoshopped image then I really don't know what to say...

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Yeah, maybe they didn't even bother checking the story and cried with the wolves, not spotting the obvious manipulating of images is lazy at best. Gonna wait for the real pic where that poor kid is absolutily not on a beach.

I remain sympathetic to the Israeli state in general, but I have to say their actions here are disgraceful. It is just pure revenge on hundreds of innocent people because of the actions of a few Hamas scumbags.

Israel has to be stepping up at a time like this and showing why they are better than Hamas, not trying to out-do them a hundredfold in pointless tit-for-tat murders.

Agreed. My general view is that Israel has a right to defend itself against the rocket attacks, but clearly the bombings arent helping anyone and are only causing harm. Harm for the Palestinians who are hurt by the bombings, and harm for the Israelis who come in harm's way when the Palestinians fight back. Why Israel keeps thinking that the bombings will work is beyond me.

But at this point its silly to think that there will ever be a diplomatic solution, it will only end with one side wiping out the other side, whichever side that is.

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

the fact that particular image was a photoshop isn't really relevant because the event DID happen and everyone agrees that it happened - if all it takes for you to ignore the reckless bloodshed is the Western Media using a photoshopped image then I really don't know what to say...

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Put me on the ignore list and you don't have to say anything. It ain't that hard, and you won't see anything I say. You will never have to do anything to do with me. So what does it matter what you have to say. You can call me whatever you want in your anecdotes of your interesting life. But that isn't going to convince me even if you win the Pulitzer Price. It's pretty simple, they are just better at hating than they are at killing, if they would be better at killing all jews living there would be dead. So it's good that they aren't very good at it.

Edit, little addition, if it's all about living standards, than why are sinagogues attacked in Europe? Maybe, just maybe, is the Islam an absolutily vile ideoligy that has more genes in their collective hate of jews than they have collective genes running in their families?

Sick religion, genetically challenged followers. All in all screw the horribly perverse death-cult that is islam. Sideways.

Relevant video:

http://youtu.be/7XMMUNGwm4c

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Put me on the ignore list and you don't have to say anything. It ain't that hard, and you won't see anything I say. You will never have to do anything to do with me. So what does it matter what you have to say. You can call me whatever you want in your anecdotes of your interesting life. But that isn't going to convince me even if you win the Pulitzer Price. It's pretty simple, they are just better at hating than they are at killing, if they would be better at killing all jews living there would be dead. So it's good that they aren't very good at it.

Edit, little addition, if it's all about living standards, than why are sinagogues attacked in Europe? Maybe, just maybe, is the Islam an absolutily vile ideoligy that has more genes in their collective hate of jews than they have collective genes running in their families?

Sick religion, genetically challenged followers. All in all screw the horribly perverse death-cult that is islam. Sideways.

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ignoring ignorance and hate doesn't make it go away so I wont be ignoring you - I will pity you however for your complete lack of empathy...

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

ignoring ignorance and hate doesn't make it go away so I wont be ignoring you - I will pity you however for your complete lack of empathy...

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Me no empathy, You could see it like that if you want to. Can I also call you total idiots for falling for an obviously manipulated photograph that has no other purpose than manipulating you.

Was kinda right no, how I look at things doesn't change anything, that pic was deviced to make you look at things in a certain way. Doesn't that make you feel kinda used. I would feel used when being lied to with cheap tricks, especially when they are so very very obvious. You are probably not the most stupid person on the planet and surroundings that oh so willingly gobbed it up, so credits for that.

personally the fact that it was witnessed by several western media outlets first hand was more convincing to me - and one fake image really didn't change that fact...

Can someone point me to the military target that caused those children to be euphemistically termed Collateral damage?

Because if you can't point to a legitmate target then this was a state sponsored terrorist act. It is meant to intimadate and crush any will of the people.

=][=

Now if its all about living standards why do Ultra Orthodox Jewish men attack non-orthodox Jewish school children?

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

But at this point its silly to think that there will ever be a diplomatic solution, it will only end with one side wiping out the other side, whichever side that is.

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Part of why my suggested solution would be for settlements to be erected for the Palestinian population in the neighbouring countries and the various areas, and they be granted citizenship in those areas and compensated. It isn't the most ideal situation in the world, but if I was in that situation, being compensated to live with a home and work, would be a better alternative than nothing at all.

This would obviously be a policy carried out over a stretch of years from agreements and practical standpoint. Obviously working better if the compensation is generous, perhaps assistance from foreign aid budgets.

Israel would most likely end up burdened with the greatest cost in the arrangement, as it should be if they want those territories.

So you want the rest of the world to pay for a diaspora mark II?

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Agreed. My general view is that Israel has a right to defend itself against the rocket attacks, but clearly the bombings arent helping anyone and are only causing harm. Harm for the Palestinians who are hurt by the bombings, and harm for the Israelis who come in harm's way when the Palestinians fight back. Why Israel keeps thinking that the bombings will work is beyond me.

But at this point its silly to think that there will ever be a diplomatic solution, it will only end with one side wiping out the other side, whichever side that is.

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I respect the sentiments expressed in this post, but for the pessimistic prediction...I hope not, and I frankly expect not. Hamas is not capable of it. Even the situation changed dramaticly and Israel faced an existential threat, there'd be plenty of warning signs long before it - Israel has plenty of foreign goodwill to count on, in the first place the US.
Israel might consider driving out the Palestinians entirely, but I expect not. They would have to embrace the prospect of being a pariah on the world stage, and such a 'final solution' would arouse so much internal disssent that even an extremely right-wing government would hesitate.

Then again...the general sequence of things could continue for at least a decade or two, by which point settler outposts literally saturate the west bank. The rest of the world now maintains that they're all illegal and should be dismantled, but that might be an impossible option in the far future. Leaving the Palestinians even more overcrowded and concentrated than they currently are.

I seriously wonder what the underlying strategy beneath the settlement policy is - it just might be to create a fait accompli for future Israeli politicians, ensuring that there's no way going back.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

So you want the rest of the world to pay for a diaspora mark II?

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Nothing perfect, hence this situation in the first place. But I think working on ending a humanitarian crisis would be a good spend and as stated, those involved in causing it are the ones with most of the burden.

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Originally Posted by Kralizec

I respect the sentiments expressed in this post, but for the pessimistic prediction...I hope not, and I frankly expect not. Hamas is not capable of it. Even the situation changed dramaticly and Israel faced an existential threat, there'd be plenty of warning signs long before it - Israel has plenty of foreign goodwill to count on, in the first place the US.
Israel might consider driving out the Palestinians entirely, but I expect not. They would have to embrace the prospect of being a pariah on the world stage, and such a 'final solution' would arouse so much internal disssent that even an extremely right-wing government would hesitate.

Then again...the general sequence of things could continue for at least a decade or two, by which point settler outposts literally saturate the west bank. The rest of the world now maintains that they're all illegal and should be dismantled, but that might be an impossible option in the far future. Leaving the Palestinians even more overcrowded and concentrated than they currently are.

I seriously wonder what the underlying strategy beneath the settlement policy is - it just might be to create a fait accompli for future Israeli politicians, ensuring that there's no way going back.

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With the borders defined by previous agreements, continued settlement is basically land-grabbing, which according to just about every legal understanding is casis belli and provides a iusta causa for the Palestinians to retaliate as they see fit. Of course, the onus is on the Palestinians to repel the Israelis themselves, and they're too weak to do so, and quite frankly I don't care enough about them to want us to help them do so. The Melian dialogue applies. The strong (Israelis) do what they will, the weak (Palestinians) suffer what they must. There is no justice involved except practical reality.

For anyone wishing to excuse the settlements, I ask a couple of questions: are the settlers subject to Palestinian law, and do they pay taxes to the Palestinian authorities? If neither is true, but they are supported by the Israeli state, then they are invaders. If both are true, they are immigrants. For people like Frag, I'd ask a further question: would you be happy if Muslim inhabitants in your country refused to pay taxes or obey your country's laws, but pledged allegiance to and were supported by a foreign state? If it happened in Britain, I'd expect my government to do everything legally possible to eliminate the problem, and if we weren't strong enough, call on every favour we have to help us do so.

Last time someone tried something like that with the British it caused the Falkland war.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Last time someone tried something like that with the British it caused the Falkland war.

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Someone may try to nitpick by saying that an invasion is crossing the border in arms. Which is only true where the country being invaded is strong enough to forcibly eject unarmed invaders, thus necessitating any invasion to be done with arms. If you trust your supporting government to back you with arms in the event of any attempt to evict you, you can cross the border and occupy foreign land unarmed, and it is no less an invasion than if you'd done so in full uniform and military regalia. If you enter and live in another country, you are either a guest of that country, a citizen of that country, or an invader.

The ground offensive has begun.

Interesting to see what happens now.

I know the best solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the only downside is that it involves cobalt nukes.

Well that's awkward because there arent any cobalt nukes.

Any dirty bomb or a neutron one would have the same effect as a cobalt bomb:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_bomb

We are all war gamers. What would you think of a "battle" that had a casualty ratio of 263-1?

Monks, fog and somehow my general the only one dead as he charged through the forest....

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Originally Posted by Idaho

We are all war gamers. What would you think of a "battle" that had a casualty ratio of 263-1?

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A heroic victory!

EDIT: To clarify, I mean something serious when I say this. Israeli society will hail the military as heroes and while I harbour nothing against the ordinary soldier, at the strategic level these actions are the furthest thing possible from heroic.

The correct answer is: a massacre.

Er... technically if the casulaties are purely millitary then a 263-1 I consider it a successful military action, I have a propensity for artillery and like it when the battles are one sided.

Obviously in this case where the casualties are civillians it's a massacre, but the numbers dont by themselves constitute massacre in the wrongful mass murder sense, to be clear here.

Lets take a look at the few Hamas fireworks landing in leafy, well-to-do Israeli suburbs. Cat slightly scared:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqiHchsbE0

And then compare to the effect of battlefield munitions being fired into the crappy ghetto of Gaza:

Attachment 13668

270 dead versus 1 dead. These are civilians.

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Lets take a look at the few Hamas fireworks landing in leafy, well-to-do Israeli suburbs. Cat slightly scared:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqiHchsbE0

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Much lulz for the cat, but I launched bigger stuff than that on July 4th. Was that just a remnant from an iron dome intercept? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by drone

Much lulz for the cat, but I launched bigger stuff than that on July 4th. Was that just a remnant from an iron dome intercept? :inquisitive:

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Ding ding ding.

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The Jerusalem Post reported that the metal shard that hit the tree was a remnant of an Israel Defense Force Iron Dome missile intercepting a rocket that had been launched from Gaza.

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Are you trying to post an advertisement for Israel's Iron-dome system or you simply trying to mislead people by not presenting all the facts?

Sorry - I got my stats wrong. It's now 290 - 1. Among the latest dead, 3 kids shot by a tank.

1,300 permanently displaced, 40,000 in UN shelters. Although with Israel's past form for not giving a shit about those...

Isn't it 290-2 now?

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

Are you trying to post an advertisement for Israel's Iron-dome system or you simply trying to mislead people by not presenting all the facts?

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Maybe I'm just guessing (correctly, it appears) as to why a rocket would make such a lame impact. :inquisitive: Iron Dome gets a lot of press, but it's not as good as the hype makes it out to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drone

..., but it's not as good as the hype makes it out to be.

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http://www.technologyreview.com/news...-analysts-say/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

Part of why my suggested solution would be for settlements to be erected for the Palestinian population in the neighbouring countries and the various areas, and they be granted citizenship in those areas and compensated. It isn't the most ideal situation in the world, but if I was in that situation, being compensated to live with a home and work, would be a better alternative than nothing at all.

This would obviously be a policy carried out over a stretch of years from agreements and practical standpoint. Obviously working better if the compensation is generous, perhaps assistance from foreign aid budgets.

Israel would most likely end up burdened with the greatest cost in the arrangement, as it should be if they want those territories.

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So, like the people of Diego Garcia?

Nope - not acceptable - you would be condemning the Palestinians to a worse fate than they face now - and denying them the right to the land they have bled over.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Nope - not acceptable - you would be condemning the Palestinians to a worse fate than they face now - and denying them the right to the land they have bled over.

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Actually, I meant for the ones in Palestine to actually stay there, idea being, Israel would find the conditions too costly to move them, so they will accept them as legitimate people/owners of that area. I was referring for settlements for the refugees and citizenships, which is a big concern.

Extreme nationalists cruelly stomping civilians being used as cover by religious extremists who launch the dumbest of bombs in order to prompt retaliation using the smartest of technology, all for the sake of hopefully getting the favor of Europe who created the entire situation in the first place.

What a joke.

European exceptionalism/ingenuity!

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Extreme nationalists cruelly stomping civilians being used as cover by religious extremists who launch the dumbest of bombs in order to prompt retaliation using the smartest of technology, all for the sake of hopefully getting the favor of Europe who created the entire situation in the first place.

What a joke.

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David Lloyd George - created the northern Ireland conflict, the Arab Israeli conflict, the Cyprus disaster.

So with the latest bombing the death toll reaches over 300 with 8 members of the same family dead.

Americans are a strange lot. They seem more prone to narratives that create an "other", an enemy. Once that division is made, all sympathy and action flows from that. This explains why they have always been so poor at wars of occupation. They can't switch from being invading aggressors to defensive peacekeepers.

If anyone was still in mistaken belief that Israeli is not deliberately trying to destroy the viability of the Palestinian state:From The New York Times:

How the West Chose War in Gaza

By preventing payment of Hamas workers salaries and free passage to Egypt, Israel and the West laid the groundwork for the latest escalation.
http://<br /> http://www.nytimes.com...-the-west.html

http://youtu.be/Qd2lZosBrig

Sad - because I think Jewish girls are hot.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

Relevant video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY

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And this is probably why no one cares ^^

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Everybody can't have the same taste, that would get boring fast. I'm sure some of them are just talking for the camera, though. :laugh4:

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Personally interesting because my cousin married a Jew - and as she's not Jewish, their children will not be deemed Jewish. Also interesting because the first thing my father asked on hearing of the engagement was "what do his parents think?"

Which shows the generational gap.

As someone who is Jewish who has no intention of marrying Jewish, I know that I will probably be disowned if I don't marry within the fold.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

As someone who is Jewish who has no intention of marrying Jewish, I know that I will probably be disowned if I don't marry within the fold.

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Eh - come to the UK.

Although, if you'd seen Suzie Gold you'd think all Jews here were obsessed with their children "marrying out". Although the main reason to see that film is to appreciate just how hot Summer Phoenix is, and then to curse because it's the last film she made.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0348155/

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Originally Posted by Idaho

David Lloyd George - created the northern Ireland conflict, the Arab Israeli conflict, the Cyprus disaster.

So with the latest bombing the death toll reaches over 300 with 8 members of the same family dead.

Americans are a strange lot. They seem more prone to narratives that create an "other", an enemy. Once that division is made, all sympathy and action flows from that. This explains why they have always been so poor at wars of occupation. They can't switch from being invading aggressors to defensive peacekeepers.

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Part of the decision on Archangel in support of White Russia as well, if I recall. Not to mention his willingness to cave in to the Germans in 1940.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Eh - come to the UK.

Although, if you'd seen Suzie Gold you'd think all Jews here were obsessed with their children "marrying out". Although the main reason to see that film is to appreciate just how hot Summer Phoenix is, and then to curse because it's the last film she made.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0348155/

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Technically if your child doesnt marry Jewish then Jewish law says you must consider them as if they were dead. Funny lot we Jews are.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Technically if your child doesnt marry Jewish then Jewish law says you must consider them as if they were dead. Funny lot we Jews are.

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I remember a pal of mine from my grad school days....his grandfather told him to enjoy himself all he wanted but to remember that "shiksa were just for practice."

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I remember a pal of mine from my grad school days....his grandfather told him to enjoy himself all he wanted but to remember that "shiksa were just for practice."

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Haha yes that is a saying. There really isnt anything that I know of in Jewish law that prohibits sex with non-Jews, its the procreating part which is the problem.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I remember a pal of mine from my grad school days....his grandfather told him to enjoy himself all he wanted but to remember that "shiksa were just for practice."

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That's sickening.

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/o...im/2013/10/02/

That is actually somewhat crazy, just imagine someone today wrote that article about aryans instead of jews.
Or about muslims marrying non-muslims or blacks marrying non-blacks...

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Originally Posted by Husar

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/o...im/2013/10/02/

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Parochialism makes me :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

That's sickening.

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Yeah, and exactly why orthodox jews and conservative muslims don't belong here in the west.

Go away. Desert->

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Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

That's sickening.

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Out of curiosity, why? I do agree that the concept is kinda funny for me in an uneasy manner since Ive had a better time with "shiksas" than any Jewish gal so far, but Ive always seen that phrase as more of a joke than something to be taken seriously.

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Originally Posted by Husar

http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/o...im/2013/10/02/

That is actually somewhat crazy, just imagine someone today wrote that article about aryans instead of jews.
Or about muslims marrying non-muslims or blacks marrying non-blacks...

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Yeah, nobody with half a brain at least in the Jewish world takes the Jewish Press seriously. It's a rag, kinda like the Daily Mail.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Out of curiosity, why? I do agree that the concept is kinda funny for me in an uneasy manner since Ive had a better time with "shiksas" than any Jewish gal so far, but Ive always seen that phrase as more of a joke than something to be taken seriously.

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Because he's saying that girls outside of his own race/religion can be treated like sex objects for nothing more than his own gratification. Even if it is only said in jest it is still an unhealthy mindset to have.

To treat girls like sex objects is always wrong, but adding a racial aspect to it makes it particularly disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Out of curiosity, why? I do agree that the concept is kinda funny for me in an uneasy manner since Ive had a better time with "shiksas" than any Jewish gal so far, but Ive always seen that phrase as more of a joke than something to be taken seriously.

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In fairness - this is common to most communities - you can use the "other" for sex, but they're not fit to marry.

What do you call a girl you have sex with without a meaningful emotional relationship? - If you know going in it's not going to be for the long haul, it's not meaningful.

The word you are looking for is "whore".

Of course, I hear that White Americans think Jewish girls are easy - probably because the Jewish boys don't want them until they're ready to marry.

The article on John Stewart there makes the point very clearly. Stewart is a Jew - but his wife and children are not - he should be ashamed - he's practising "ethnic cleansing" against his own people - UNLESS his wife converted.

Obviously, if his wife converted and became a proper Jew - a proper woman - it's OK for them to be married.

Reminds me of those Jack Straw comments about Arab Individuals preying on the 'easy meat' White Girls.
Article

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

Reminds me of those Jack Straw comments about Arab Individuals preying on the 'easy meat' White Girls.
Article

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That comment was somewhat miss-reported, as Jack Straw was making the point (quite accurately, I think) that a section of the Muslim community see white, non Muslim, girls as "fair game" for things they would never allow to be done to Muslim girls.

This is not news, nor is it a specifically Muslim problem - you only have to look at the shameful way the American G.I.'s behaved with women from Allied Countries to see the problem is endemic to all male cultural groups everywhere - although not all men.

I see your point. In my circles at least its not quite as derogatory as the word "whore" its just the word used to describe non-Jewish women, but still certainly not a "good" term to use.

Anyways more on topic, the death toll is now ~425 - 20.

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Originally Posted by Hooahguy

I see your point. In my circles at least its not quite as derogatory as the word "whore" its just the word used to describe non-Jewish women, but still certainly not a "good" term to use.

Anyways more on topic, the death toll is now ~425 - 20.

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Well, if you want to marry out, I invite you to consider why the Jewish community has a specific word for non-Jewish women.

Death toll is absurd - this is like Lebanon all over again. As soon as one of Israel's neighbours shows any signs of progress they flatten them.

Israel is not only the focus for all Islamists in the region, it actively suppresses any positive development.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Well, if you want to marry out, I invite you to consider why the Jewish community has a specific word for non-Jewish women.

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Also a word for non-Jewish men. Basically all non-Jews. Were pretty xenophobic Id say.

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Death toll is absurd - this is like Lebanon all over again. As soon as one of Israel's neighbours shows any signs of progress they flatten them.

Israel is not only the focus for all Islamists in the region, it actively suppresses any positive development.

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What do you mean by "progress"?

Meanwhile the Palestinian death toll reaches 348 with 2700 injured. Many women and children. So do you think it's unreasonable for the families of those dead to cheer the news of 13 dead Israeli soldiers?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...li-bombardment

I thought it was past 425 now?

Either way, the Palestinians will cheer the deaths of the Israelis and the Israelis will cheer the deaths of the Palestinians. And the cycle continues.

This thread is so lovely. Too many people on their high pedestals. I guess it sounds too cool to be all wise and smart about people dying else where.. they're just animals killing each other, at the end of the day. Never mind you could very well be in these people's shoes, if it weren't for your "lucky" place or time of birth.

I particularly enjoy the "only possible solution" suggested by one of the members.

In short, get real. 10 is not the same as 1, no matter how you spin it. You can't just take things from people, that's called stealing, and if you do, you better expect they won't be happy about it, and never will be. Kill them? Well if this was a few hundred years ago that would probably slip just fine [think Amerika?], but no, your civility denies that doesn't it? Unless stealing things is fine, or killing people is fine if they're not fine with you stealing their possessions.

Keep going though, I'm feeling enlightened and intellectually bettered, by the post.

Interesting that you decry people for thier high pedestels while building your own even higher.