If Islam is the "Religion of Peace"....

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

If I understand you correctly Frag (and I'm trying) you're saying that Muslims are generally okay, in spite of their religion, which you despise, because they don't follow it all that closely anyways?

Sort of the Islamic version of anti-Catholic bigotry? The average Catholic is fine, they just belong to the church of ultimate evil? Lucky for them they don't really believe much of it?

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He's saying that Islam is a violent religion that wants you to do exactly what the terrorists and ISIS do.
Therefore, according to Fragony, "Muslims" who do not want to kill or change us do not follow Islam since Islam demands people to be violent and chop other peoples' heads off.
I have no idea what Fragony calls the religion of non-violent muslims, maybe muslimism, but he sees them as two different religions for some reason. For Fragony there are no different interpretations of Islam, the only correct one is the one of the terrorists and therefore they are the only followers of Islam and Islam is an evil religion that he rejects. In other words:

Fragony's Islam = everyone else's islamist extremists
Fragony's muslims = everyone else's moderate muslims

I've acknowledged that a while ago even though I may have used the terms in the more common meaning since then and therefore get accused of "not getting it" because I do not speak Fragoninglish all the time.

I have no idea what Fragony thinks that the left loves muslim extremists and wants to import terrorists, that sort of "distinction" really escapes me because I have never seen someone advocate that.

I think most of the discussion is about Fragony wanting everybody to adopt the terms he uses and when they don't, he accuses them of being stupid while when you get to the core of it, both Fragony and most everyone else, myself included, do not want islamist terrorists to come here and change our democracies into islamic states.

To translate that into Fragoninglish:

When you get to the core of it, both Fragony and most everyone else, myself included, do not want The Islam to come here and change our democracies into islamic states.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

If I understand you correctly Frag (and I'm trying) you're saying that Muslims are generally okay, in spite of their religion, which you despise, because they don't follow it all that closely anyways?

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Absolutily correct.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

You gave your opinion not about islamic "guests", but ANY foreigners coming to live in the Netherlands.

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What's so wrong about that, do I suddenly become Ukrainian if I move to Ukraine or am I a Dutchman in Ukraine.

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Originally Posted by Husar

That's exactly what I said, "completely unique in being a violent religion" was meant as "more violent than other religions" which is close enough to "extremely over represented when it comes to terrorism", apart from that I already said that: "Maybe it wasn't perfectly worded either [...]". You're making a huge deal over a small semantic issue if there even is one, but at least you're only derailing your own thread with it...

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Semantics is VERY important in this case.

Christianity has done equal horrors or worse, historically speaking. Inquisition anyone?

My point HERE though is that Islam is still a horrible religion even after we had the enlightenment, democratic revolution, and stuff.

THAT is the problem.

If it is called the International House of Pancakes, how come I can't eat the walls?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

What's so wrong about that, do I suddenly become Ukrainian if I move to Ukraine or am I a Dutchman in Ukraine.

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Some people think that after one has been living in the country long enough to learn its language, traditions and ways, has his permanent home and job there, the citizenship of the country and, most importantly, associates himself with it, he is considered a native there. Still more are his offspring, either by a native or by his compatriot. You are evidently of a different mind. For you ethnicity and origin overrule.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

My point HERE though is that Islam is still a horrible religion even after we had the enlightenment, democratic revolution, and stuff.

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Religions, as is the way with all more or less abstract notions - language, for example, - can't be assessed against the "good-bad" scale. Every religion (mostly through its antiquity) contains many controversial and (for the modern world) inacceptable tenets. The problem is in people who may follow the obsolete tenets literally or loosely. And if we talk of close following, then all religions are "horrible". If people are sensible enough to realize that the world is not what it was a couple of millenia ago, the religion is doing fine.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Some people think that after one has been living in the country long enough to learn its language, traditions and ways, has his permanent home and job there, the citizenship of the country and, most importantly, associates himself with it, he is considered a native there. Still more are his offspring, either by a native or by his compatriot. You are evidently of a different mind. For you ethnicity and origin overrule.

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Not really. It's not my fault some groups are inward. The most inward are probably the Chinese, but that doesn't matter as they never cause any trouble and never make any demands.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

If it is called the International House of Pancakes, how come I can't eat the walls?

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...and the bustards serve only domestic pancakes. I've even heard rumors that the French toast isn't.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

I've even heard rumors that the French toast isn't.

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Oh, come on!! Next thing you will be saying that French fries are neither French, nor fries.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Not really. It's not my fault some groups are inward. The most inward are probably the Chinese, but that doesn't matter as they never cause any trouble and never make any demands.

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Some of it also may be the length of time spent there. I imagine you would consider most white South Africans to be South African as opposed to just being stranded Dutchmen.

Must admit total defeat in this thread, it's how I feel but I can't defend it without being irrational.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

So here is what I don't get.

If Islam is the Religion Of Peace... How come it is so misunderstood?

I have two nieces...

One of them is together with a muslim guy...

The other one is together with a buddhist guy...

I must honestly say I got bad vibes in the first place, and positive vibes in the latter case.






As it turns out though, this muslim guy is... Well... a ****ing awesome boyfriend-soon-to-be-husband.

He never drinks, he is totally cool, he respects me, he looks at her with the utmost love in his eyes... As my family situation is rather problematic, I have the role of the father figure to my nieces... And this muslim guy totally holds up to my standards.

Heck, I am glad they are together.




Anyway... as this muslim guy got her pregnant, it was time to take him out on a serious talk. You know the type: "I will support you 100% as long as you don't hurt her, but if you hurt her I will really really REALLY hurt you in a way you won't come back from ever".

Regardless... He more or less broke down in tears and started to talk about how hard it was for him, with his muslim friends... Because he was together with her.

They wouldn't tolerate that she was speaking out among men and shit... And he is now more or less a social outcast, because he choose to treat his girl like he does (with love).



I think my point is clear, but I will state it anyway... There is something rotten in Islam. The more I interact with people of that belief, the harder I get convinced.


That buddhist guy btw? He is shit... Smokes weed all day and will probably never get a proper job.




I guess my question is: When the hell will the west understand that Islam ISN'T just another religion... It's a fanatical sect that should be fought in each and every manner that we possibly can, for the betterment of mankind.

*I prefer to fight with knowledge and education rather than bombs though...*

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I'm Muslim (also Arab), let me address this post. First of all, this guy is doing the right thing, maybe he is an outcast because the community he belongs to is an ethnic enclave and they prefer him not marrying a foreign girl? I have two wives, one finnish, the other canadian, and a daughter, divorced both, pay child support, and also support both ex-wives fully, even had a settlement where they walked with half of my wealth, guess what? we still love and support each other.

They have lived in a Muslim society since 2008, and frankly? not a peep about how they're being treated, which was with respect. I don't doubt for a minute society is full of jackasses though, misogynists don't associate with a religion, they exist in every society, and even in mine women speak up and fight for their rights.

I don't want to drag this into a religious debate though, i've seen the "but those ISIS folks follow a pure version of Islam" garbage alot, if you claim to know then you're either a Scholar of Some Repute (tm) or an idiot.

You need to do the world a favor and get back with the Finn, if only to become a baby factory

blue eyes with mocha skin 😍😍😍😍

also, I love you