Parthia

OK, I'm good to go with playing as the Romans, Macedonians and Greeks. Parthia is my first Eastern faction. I've just finished conquering Armenia. Now, I'm at war with Pontus. I'm mad because I wanted to go after Seleucia. I really only have one full stack army and a half stack army. I'm playing RTR 5.4 on VH/VH. I'm doing well so far I think. Just some opinions is what I'm after. Would you all try to make peace with Pontus and then go after Seleucia or just take out Pontus first. My concerns are the Egyptians are in southern Asia Minor. When I played as Macedonia and invaded Pontus, the Egypptians attacked me. So, I'm thinking if I go at it with Pontus I'll have to deal with Egypt now. While I'm certain I could handle a one on one with Seleucids, I don't think I'm ready for a fight with both Pontus and Egypt. I think peace with Pontus would be better. That way I can take out the Seleucids who are also at war with Egypt. By the time I complete my land grab with Seleucia I'll be able to take on Egypt. Hopefully.

Combat with Parthia is much more fun than with the Romans and Macedonians. I used a very dispersed formation. I have no line at all. I divide my units into four groups. 3 groups of HA and Cats and 1 group of like two Sparabara which I leave in ambush somewhere. I attack the enemy from every which way. I've made units rout before they even get hit with one arrow. If I get a Horse archer to be chased by some ground units I lead them to my infantry in ambush and spring it on them. Best part is after I spring the ambush, I put those units back in the woods and do it again later.

Crush the Egyptian threat as soon as you are able to because it will grow worse every turn if you leave them alone (i.e. with the Seleucids as their victims). Your goal is to conquer Antioch before they can; if you succeed, you have a good foothold to take on the stacks after stacks that the Egyptians will send for you.
Maybe it's not as bad in RTR but prepare for some hell in the shape of those Eggy chariots....particularly if you let them reach your cav. If you manage to vanquish both the Eggies and the Seleucids (except for Sardis, it's not as urgent) you have basically won because one of the richest areas on the map is now yours.
Pontus should be a cakewalk now, even if they have taken one or two cities from you. Usually they just use masses of crap EI.

Yeah, it's that bad in RTR. The only difference from RTR and 1.2 that I can see is there are some extra cities and the map extends almost out to India. The whole central Asia area is still poor. All the cities on the east side of the Med are rich as crap. I think I'm already headed for disaster. I've lost quite a few of my cataphracts so far. I've fought a lot of battles that really gained me nothing. Pontus wouldn't accept peace and now the Seleucids are marching armies on my territory. It's weird. They haven't attacked me. They're just marching around in my territory. I checked to make sure I didn't inadvertently give them military access. I didn't. I think it's just a matter of time before they attack. They could just be marching across my land to reinforce their armies fighting the Egyptians. But right now, as it is so far, there's no way I can fight the Seleucids or Egyptians. I would start over, but I'm going to roll with it and see what happens. I have two good armies so at the very least I can go on the defensive and build some more infrastructure. That will probably just delay the inevitable. And another problem I'm experiencing is rebels. Every turn a rebel army with 6-8 units pops up. They always have archers. While I"m beating them they are taking their tool on my HA's. I don't have cataphracts with my anti-rebel army because I don't want to wast them on rebels. The HA's trash these rebels every battle, but even with just a few casualties it mounts up after many turns. And I can't retrain because I can't build Parthian Aux HA's yet.

The going is tough, but I think it's going to make for a good storyline when it's done.

And now I'm forked. The Egyptians have attacked. THis is going to suck. If I had onagers right now, I'd be set. I could rampage through Asia minor with my one unstoppable army that is fighting Pontus. Meanwhile, I'd use Fabian tactics against the Egyptians in the south. Right now looks like I'm going to have to take some troops from Pontus and reinforce against Egypt. I think I can hold Pontus with a few less troops over there.

Deus Ret. Your advice came a bit too late for me. But I'll definitely take it the next time I play this campaign.

pull out of pontus with all your men adn attack antioch then fight egypt up and down the coast til you can take sidon meanwhile bring in whatever men you can from your home lands to hit the nile delta kinda like taking the back door if you manage that you have beaten them mop up the egyptians and then the SE if they exist
now you can take on pontus and whoever else you want

edit: remember to use spys to take the nile cities they move faster than artillery and you need to be quick to get in behind the main eggy forces fighting you in jerusalem, antioch, sidon, damascus area

Consider Dumanthra and then Petra and Bostra, kinda like backdoors into the Nile.

A single boat on the Red Sea can be a nice ferry operation.

Dead Knight of the Living, thanks for the honor. :bow:
I hope you still enjoy your campaign although it seems to become desperate now.....try to carry on; if you win through, you will gladfully remember those early, hardish days....

As orcorama stated, leave Pontus alone for the moment. They can do little harm to you because you will be more than compensated for whatever they may be able to take from you. So, the back door route is a very elegant way to cripple the Eggies. Which you should do even faster as Parthia than as anyone else because, as you may have noticed, your infantry is too limited (or downright crappy in vanilla RTW) to take on the chariots effectively. Additionally, they succumb to the bowmen far too quickly. In a siege chariots are next to useless, though, so go for the populated Nile valley, especially Memphis because of the Pyramids; this will break their back. Now you can watch the Eggies running headlessly from city to city, wasting their time and precious armies in hapless efforts to stop you while (with a little maneuvering) you can close your iron circle around their remaining domain and, in due time, outproduce them.

Always keep in mind that once you conquer them, not only the hardest battle will be won, but you will also be in possession of seemingly infinite resources, both money- and populationwise.

Note that eastern inf are only good for pushing rams etc.

Even when the gate is broken, go hammer down walls before going in.

Letting your cav pour through multiple openings is good and also gives you more time to soften up the confused whirling chariots and the slow phalanxes before you go inside.

Despite the bowmen, you should still be able to outshoot them. Nearly every unit in your army should be missile capable.

All this is great advice. And believe me I'm making little notes for the next campaign. But right now I just lost a town to a rebel army. It's the first time I've ever seen a rebel army actually besiege a town and take it. I had 4 peasant units vs 2 sparabara, 1 horse archer and 1 bowman. THe peasants obviously folded. I sent three units out to destroy the ram. It didn't work. they got routed quickly. Regrouped inside the gates. Then routed again when the rebels got inside. I just took that town back this last turn.

I'm ravaging Pontus with my one army. I have a 6 stack army of HA's fighting another 800 man Pontic army. I attack and expend all my arrows, then they attack me and I expend all my arrows again. I dwindle them down little by little. I'll have to beat them on the next battle or they'll besiege the town I'm using to retrain my HA's and I'll be SOL. I think I will beat them next time. Though they have 800 men, all their units are understength. And they have no missile troops remaining.

I have a strong army with cataphracts vicinity of Seleukia. I just obliterated an Egyptian army full of Macedonian Mercenaries. This is RTR 5.4 keep in mind. I don't remember seeing these units in 1.2. They're phalanx troops. I hardly lost a man. They had a unit of archers only 16 men strong so that was no problem. And they had about 4 units of peasants. It was fun standing back with the HA's making them chase me all over the place and die. Basically, they were about to take the Seleucid city east of Seleukia. I stopped them because I didn't want them to have it. I can't siege it because it'll leave Seleukia open to attack. I know Egypt has a couple of armies inbound too. I don't want Seleucids to declare war on me. But again, I think it is inevitable because their armies keep marching in my boundaries around my cities. I don't know what they're waiting for? But I'm not going to provoke them. My northern and eastern boundaries are completely undefended. And the Seleucids could swarm me in these areas.

Pulling out of Pontus is so hard for me to do right now. I'm whipping their anuses. I can't believe they still have an army in my territory and are not returning to defend their homeland. The reason I am considering withdrawing from there is because I have no onagers to take their stonewalled cities. If only they were all wooden walls. But I"m having a blast prancing in their country side. My cataphracts have been phenomenal. But if I pull out of Pontus I see two things happening. They continue to harass my western border and i end up having to fight them anyway. Because they did invade me first. Or, the Egyptians conquer them and get more money from their cities. I just can't see a benefit to staying there or leaving really.

If I had one more decently sized army to hold the border I'd pull my main army out, but I don't have that necessary border guarding army right now. Perhaps after Exterminating a couple more towns I will. BUt then I'll find it hard to maintain them if I let those cities go.

And as for the Army in Seleukia. I'm slowly getting more units there and hope to go on the offensive somewhere. But I'd be left wide open if I did it now.

And the infantry. Why do I even bother with them. I have four infantry units in my Army of Seleukia. They hang back by the red line ready to withdraw if attacked. That's all I do with them. I leave them on the board so the enemy still has to be concerned with them, but they are nothing more than a distractor.

It's hard to pull out of a campaign you're winning, but if you don't defend your frontier against Egypt there won't be any point in gaining Pontus anymore. You only have to hold out against the stacks; you're Parthian, so you can just field armies of horse archers and try to divide them. Divide your armies and sweep into Egypt's territory, refuse battle with all enemy armies except all-infantry armies, make peace with Pontus and demand heap big heap tribute from them, using the tribute to bribe what Egyptian armies you can. With Egypt, you must bribe, or you will go under, because their chariots are the one nemesis that your HA have no answer to. Instead of going for the huge battle of annihilation, the Cannae, go for small-unit tactics if you can.

Fleet tactics are also an advantage. If you happen to have control of any Mediterranean port, start churning out ships and use them to gain naval superiority. With that you can start landing piecemeal armies all over the place in Egypt, forcing them to divide their forces to deal with your multiple threats. Once they have armies lured away from one place, siege the other and assault it. If they counterattack, raise the siege and siege another city. The trick is to keep -some- cities besieged so they cannot produce any units from that settlement.

Now, some strategic observations about Egyptian weaknesses based on my experience in the Egyptian campaign: They are weak at Jerusalem. Take that down, and Sidon is yours for the taking. Two armies can pull this off, one striking from Bostra for Jerusalem, and the other advancing down from Antioch, assuming, of course, that Antioch is still there. Following that they will be pretty much reduced to the three Nile cities, which can be quickly taken simply by sending your main army at Alexandria while you use one unit to besiege Memphis and Thebes each so they cannot produce any units to relieve Alexandria while they use up their turn's move in sallying. (AI armies never make more than one move a turn, so if they sally, you withdraw and simply renew the siege next turn, until Alexandria is taken)

A thought just occurred to me; if you can make peace with the Seleucids, do so. Your HA can crush their troops -easily-, so it's no harm to leave them for now. Ally with them if you can, pay them if you must to get this. Concentrate on Egypt with whatever you have left, and you will be assured of the might of Seleucia (or what's left of it) behind you. If you cannot, then simple peace will do. The Seleucid navy is useful against the Egyptians.

Okay, that's disembodied but will work on purely theoretical basis. I haven't tried Parthia yet, but I've tried that with Scythia against the Romans, so by extension it should be about the same, just a little harder.

Pretty good advice pezhetairoi. I'll try sending some HA's into Egypt when I play next. right now I've conquered about a quarter of Asia Minor. The Pontics sieged the city I just took. I'll easily annhilate them. The Egptians just lost another army at the bridge south of Seleukia. The Seleucids and I are at peace. They just keep marching troops into my border and back out again. I don't even get the option to ask them for an alliance when I send my diplomat to them. After like 10 campaigns I still haven't figured out why I cannot ask certain nations to ally with me.

But Seleukia in the south is at the mercy of the Eggies. I've been defending the Seleucids more than my own land. They are fighting the Sarmatians (Scythians) in the north. I don't know why they took that route. But I have a spare army of 6 HA's. I'm just going to march them around Egypt and keep adding units to them as available. We'll see what that does for me.

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Originally Posted by Dead Knight of the Living

I don't even get the option to ask them for an alliance when I send my diplomat to them. After like 10 campaigns I still haven't figured out why I cannot ask certain nations to ally with me.

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In my experience, that's due to this nation being already allied with someone you're at war with. When two of your allies battle, you also have to decide for one. Thus, they are possibly allied with Pontus.
Apart from that, good luck while smashing the Egyptians. Wait any longer and they'll smash you.

Oh, Dead Knight, did I mention you should recruit as many mercenary hoplites as you can and fight bridge battles wherever possible with your hoplites surrounding the ford/bridge's other end? Guaranteed enemy annihilation especially with coupled with HA support. Those are the only places where you should fight concentrated. Otherwise you should just march divided ;-)

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Originally Posted by Deus ret.

In my experience, that's due to this nation being already allied with someone you're at war with. When two of your allies battle, you also have to decide for one. Thus, they are possibly allied with Pontus.
Apart from that, good luck while smashing the Egyptians. Wait any longer and they'll smash you.

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See, I thought the same thing. But they are allied to nowone. They haven't been allied to anybody since the start of the game. Maybe it is because I took one of their cities in the beginning though.

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

Oh, Dead Knight, did I mention you should recruit as many mercenary hoplites as you can and fight bridge battles wherever possible with your hoplites surrounding the ford/bridge's other end? Guaranteed enemy annihilation especially with coupled with HA support. Those are the only places where you should fight concentrated. Otherwise you should just march divided ;-)

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I've been fighting a lot of bridge battles. The AI is so stupid for attacking me there. I always stay close to bridges. If not, I engage with HA's until the arrows run out. When the battle is over I move to the nearest bridge and the enemy always attacks me there on their next turn.

Parthia is in my opinion the faction that has the most fun considiring your opposistion. I have played 4 Parthia campaigns on VH/M and all have been exciting and (somewhat) challenging. First if you want to play as Parthia or as any of the horse-archer heavy armies it's imperative to have Player 1's bug fixer patch since it fixes Horse Archers so they can fire while they move.

Military: Horse Archers, Horse Archers and more Horse Archers should be the composition of your early armies. Until you can get Persian Cavalry you should hire the Bedoin/Arab Cavalry Units to use for the rare occasion your Horse Archers don't pull through. Focus on enemy cavalry/chariots first then focus on archers/skirmishers then finally you can massacre the infantry. I don't use the circle formation thing much since it tires your horses out very fast. Keep Horse archers in Skirmish mode and disable fire at will unless they are chased. If your horse archers are chased enable fire at will since it seems to make them fire more volleys at the chasing unit. Beware if you leave fire at will on it may take many orders to get them to fire on a unit that you choose since they have a habit of shooting at what they want to.. Once an enemy unit is listed as Shaken (Highlight enemy unit if it is close to see its status) rush from behind with another horse archer unit to rout and massacre the unit. Persian Cavalry do what HA's do except better treat them the same with the option of flanking and routing units that aren't shaken more often and they have better arrow capability. The last important part of your army is the cataphracts. Cataphracts have the capability of taking out almost any unit 1 on 1 although they rarely need it since a single flank can rout most units. Save the Cataphracts to guard your HA's from other cavalry and to flank and destroy enemy's units that are resistant to arrow fire such as urban cohorts, armored hoplites, other cataphracts, etc. After a Cataphract charge don't forget to alt-click with them to make them use their even more deadly weapon their Mace. The cataphracts mace bypasses armor and allows the cataphracts to destroy heavily armored enemies that rely on armor. Infantry should not be used in the open field except for emergencies. Use Eastern Infantry as garrisons and Archers as garrisons. Try building two units of EI to every 1 unit of archers. They are used for siege defense only and the occasional rebel killing. You can get elephants later or you can hire elephants, use them for busting down wooden walls and as mobile archer towers. They are also excellent at dealing with melee chariots. Up north you can hire Sarmation Cavalry and Scythian HA’s. Most of my campaigns that deal with fighting with Scythia I start with a large army of HA’s and as they lose troop numbers I merge and hire all the Mercenary HA’s to recuperate from the losses. Try to avoid fighting the Scythians in snow since they’re units get bonuses in snow. When fighting any army that has more than two foot or horse archer units remember to place your horse archers in loose formation to minimize losses.

Sieges: This is your weak point but with some planning you can use your put your mobile HA’s to use. First it is important to build the best walls possible in your cities. Until your cities have stone walls they are vulnerable. When defending Place all your Eastern Infantry on the walls where you think they will attack. The next part is the most important use your archers to prevent the ram from opening the gate. Use fire Arrows to burn the ram to pieces. If you can prevent the ram from breaking the gate you’re in good shape. Then as your EI hold the enemy infantry at the walls you can use your horse archers to pick apart enemy infantry as they sit and fight the EI and get shot to pieces. If they break the gate use your heaviest unit to hold the enemy at the gate if you have no units retreat and place all your units in the town square and hope for the best. Besieging wooden walled towns is generally easy. Place all HA’s into loose formation and sit near the gates and pound the enemy with arrows once you have weekend them considerably pour your horse archers through and swarm enemies. You will take losses but you can retrain the units at the town.

Expansion: When you begin you start there are 2 Rebel Towns to be captured. One is just west of your capital you should take that one easily the next is going to be your major battle ground with Egypt it is southwest of Susa. Both are lightly defended and easy to conquer. Keep an eye on Seleucia usually the AI takes it garrison out for a walk so you can capture that town and its wonder. Next decide what to do with Armenia. Armenia is generally very trustworthy to alliances and is a buffer from Pontus. You can either crush them or Ally with them but if you ally with them you must pursue expansion north into Scythia and West into the Seleucid Empire. Scythia also is generally trust worthy but I always take the town south west of your northern town. It has mines and it can trade on that sea. The town can be defended easily on both of the river passes with forts. Build HA’s in Susa/Seleucia and send them to Dumantha to meet your soon to be favorite enemy, Egypt. Egypt will send stack after stack after stack after stack at Dumantha. Your HA’s should deal with Egypt. Diplomats should secure trade rights and trade Map info for Map Info (I don’t sell map info since the money you get for it makes the game to easy). Beware the Seleucids and Egypt do not honor Ceasefires/Alliances. If Egypt asks you to become they’re protectorate do so. It seems being a protectorate makes Egypt a true ally. Later you can break the alliance when you feel ready. When dealing with late game Pontus beware of scythed chariots. I retreat all my generals from the battle map if they have more than 2 scythed chariots since the like to chase and kill your generals. Focus all fire on those chariots with your HA’s once the chariots are gone they’re army consists of EI and Hillman which are asking for arrows from your HA. I also prefer expanding and destroying the Scythians since it destroys a military that can match yours if left alone. Aslo it gives you some much needed ports into the black sea. Ally with whoever is west of you after your northern expansion so you can pursue expansion through the Seleucids/ Egypt.

Economy: Secure Trade rights with anyone you’re not at war with. All your provinces except the few Northern ones should have Very High Tax Rates. Check with the VH tax rates what the population growth is, If the growth is under 1.5% build a farm upgrade. If the growth is over 1.5% do not build farm upgrades. Be sure to build roads first thing since your empire is huge in terms of size. Build ports for your cities that border the Caspian Sea for troop/family member transport and trade. Focus on Trade for all your cities. The only early military buildings you should have are stables and barracks. Never upgrade your barracks since it provides no benefits besides hillmen which are useless in single player. Stables should be built in all cities. Try to build an Archery Range in a few cities for archers but you do not need archery ranges in all cities. Stone Walls are important to all your cities if they are on the front. If you exterminate a just conquered city put the money looted into trade buildings/caravans.

Diplomacy: You have 5 Nations you could call neighbors, Egypt, The Seleucid Empire, Armenia, Pontus and Scythia. Egypt is the most powerful and you can either join them and pick off the remains of the Seleucids but then later you will face the Egyptians alone which is a long and costly proposition unless you become they’re protectorate or ally with the Seleucids. The Seleucids are #2 in power behind Egypt and they are also not to be trusted. You can Ally with them early and destroy Egypt if you want or fight against them like I stated earlier. Beware if you do not take part in the war one side may become to powerful and cause you a MAJOR headache later. Armenia is your western neighbor. Armenia is generally very trustworthy. You can ally with them early if you want to focus on Egypt/ Seleucids and they provide a buffer from Pontus or you can destroy them to gain Kotais which has a port to the black sea and a mine making it a fairly decent money maker. Pontus is just west of Armenia and are #3 in terms of power in the East ahead of you and Armenian at the beginning of the game. Pontus can sometimes be trustworthy and other times not so keep an eye out for them. They also have the ability to decide the fate of the Seleucids. If Pontus allies with the Seleucids Armenia will fall and you should steal the provinces before Pontus does and you should ally with Egypt and pick apart the Seleucid Empire. If Pontus allies with Armenia the Seleucids will crumble fighting a two front war and Armenia will generally try to fight the Seleucids also. Scythia is your northern neighbor and I have yet to been backstabbed by them. They have never attacked my northern province. Scythia is fairly weak and it takes them eons to move forces for counterattacks so they are easy pickings to attack. Early I always to they’re western most town and wait for they’re single counterattack which is again generally weak then I build a fort and some watchtowers at the 2 River crossings. The Scythians will generally honor Alliances/Ceasefires. One last note before you attack an allied faction use a diplomat to break the alliance first since it seems back stabbing makes diplomacy difficult.

Good posts, eaglefirst. I've enjoyed reading them. At least there are some people who do not surrender to the chariots without at least some half-decent infantry, as I did when I was Parthia....if those darn hells-on-wheels were not there, playing HA factions would be too easy anyway.

Nice posts indeed, they rival mine for length and detail :-) And the detail is more coherent than mine.

M/M

First time with an Eastern Faction, I took all of my troops and sped as quickly as I could into Egypt with a spy. I waited until the Egyptians sent out most of their troops to fight Numidia and Selecuid and sent in a spy to assist in capturing Alexandria. With that in hand, I kept a small force on a mountain to lure out the remaining egyptian forces to attack me where they got slaughtered. I kept my HA on a very steep hill and when the enemy got closer, by that time tired, my cataphracts charged home and smashed their lines easily. From there most of their garrisons have been weakened because of this so I easily captured Thebes and Memphis afterwards. I was seiged by a large egyptian army so I let them in where my East Infantry men held them at a bottleneck long enough for a cataphract unit to come behind and smash their lines.

If there's one thing I noticed the AI is really disorganized when they have troops that just entered a city and attempt to get back into formation, use this to your advantage as the Cataphract's charge is really powerful.

East Infantry men are also good for taking out chariots as there are so many of them(240 on Huge) the chariots get clogged up and fall like flies. If anything, I think EI are good to use in battles where you can send them in to attract an enemies attention on them and expose their flanks long enough for your horsemen to smash in.

I also surrendered to the Selecuids in order to get them to stop blockading Alexanderia's port so I could get out of my debt. As most people said, the factions around you are not very good people and will backstab you even with an alliance, a protectorate status keeps that in line. This gave me time to conquer Salamis, Kydonia, and Rhode island which usually have small garrisons to get enough money in which I used to help build up my forces in the Egyptian area. For some strange reason the Greeks, despite being attacked on all sides, sent a fleet and army to take me out in Egypt :furious3: So I took Rhode Island as a punishment but what the heck! I broke my alliance with the Seleucids though the Egyptians in the Jerusalem area are acting as a buffer so I wouldn't have to pay tribute to them anymore.

If any of you are wondering about how I did this I lost all my starting cities to Pontus, Armenia, and the Selecuids as I attempted to capture Egypt but not before I brought taxes to high and destroyed all my buildings except for campus statke or something, it's the one near Scythia. So yeah my empire is kinda stretched out alot ~D

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Originally Posted by nameless

I also surrendered to the Selecuids in order to get them to stop blockading Alexanderia's port so I could get out of my debt.

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You`re playing with 1.0 right? Otherwise you should barely have money.
I remeber in my first Parthian campaign with 1.0, I surrendered both to Egypt and The Seleucid Empire so that I grew strong again.
Man, I miss those days.. ~D

No 1.2, by the time I got Alexandria I was like -4800 denari, then I executed the lot to get the money back. I guess I got lucky but I was in debt.

Craterus, you miss the days of surrender? tch, tch... :-P

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

Craterus, you miss the days of surrender? tch, tch... :-P

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Nah, more 1.0 as a whole ~:cheers:

But please call me Viking! :bow:

*slaps forehead*

You'll kill me for this, I know, but I never realise Craterus'd become Viking... >.< I see Bartix has become a part of Org lore, eh. :-)

My first shot at playing Parthia:

My setup was vanilla RTW 1.2, i.e., no extra units added or mods. I chose a strategically sound course (I hope) of attacking and destroying one enemy at a time. To this end, I abandoned Campus Sakae and sent the garrison to “lower Parthia” in the bireme. Before CS revolted, I “built” a diplomat that I sent first to the Scythian faction and then on to Europe. I also added a diplomat at Susa and sent him to talk with the Seleucids and the Egyptians. The diplomat I started with, went to Armenia and then Pontus. Within four turns, I was able to ally with Scythia, Pontus and the Seleucids, as well as gain over twenty thousand denarii in tribute for trade and such with them and Armenia. This was a decisive factor in keeping my finances going in the early game.
I quickly took Phraaspa and built two forts at the river crossings to the north. I built a third fort at the river crossing south of Susa. These would delay a Scythian or Egyptian army if they betrayed me. With the forces from Arsakia and Campus Sakae united, I stormed into Armenia. A spy opened the gates to Artaxarta and my HA’s shot the garrison apart from three sides. The cataphracts finished them off. I then quickly moved on Kotais and captured it before the Armenians could get organized. Next, I cleared out the rebels and brigands that dotted my regions while my new public were brought in order. I built another series of forts to close all of the mountain passes around former Armenia and one on the river north of Kotais. At this time, my allies, Pontus and the Seleucids, went to war. I chose to side with the Seleucids, so Pontus broke our alliance. This was great! The Seleucids could now keep Egypt in check and I could take Pontus for myself. My army consisted of my general (a “cavalry commander of genius”), two somewhat under-strength Cataphracts, four Persian Cavalry and twelve HA. I slipped down the valley between the mountains that run to Sinope from Kotais, and took Pontus by surprise. With the help of spies, I stormed Sinope and captured it. I then offered Pontus a ceasefire, on the condition that they give me Ancyra, which they did! Pontus was now split in two and finishing them off was a simple matter. Also, I could finally build Cataphracts at Sinope.
Next, I built a navy and took Rhodes away from a weakened Greece and then Kydonia as well. I got a ceasefire from Greece and left my ally Macedon to finish them off. This gave me a lot of income. I built watchtowers along the Black Sea coast, on Rhodes and both ends of Crete. I sent spies to Salamis and caused a revolt. My army took the rebel city right from under the noses of the evicted Egyptian garrison. I also built watchtowers on both ends of Cyprus. With a large navy, I destroyed the Egyptian fleet and blockaded their ports. Egypt offered a ceasefire, and I demanded Dumatha. They agreed! I sent an army into Arabia to build a series of watchtowers that gave me a great view of the surrounding area. Several spies were then positioned to give me a complete view of the Seleucids’ regions. I let Egypt survive (for a while) because the Seleucids would have gotten the lion’s share of Egypt’s settlements if I weakened them too much. Basically, Egypt and the Seleucids had been locked in an even-sided struggle and neither had expanded much. Pity.
I had an assassin whack Seleucid agents until they broke the alliance, because I believe that your diplomatic record matters (don’t attack an ally). Then I was ready for the next phase. The Seleucids had a small navy and most of their army was fighting the Egyptians. They held Sardis, Halicanarssus, Tarsus, Antioch (the capital), Hatra, Palmyra, Seleucia, Damascus and Jerusalem. I had three cavalry armies as above, one outside of Mazaka, one on Cyprus and the last in Arabia. My plan was to destroy the Seleucid navy and blockade all their ports. The armies on Cyprus and near Mazaka would take Tarsus with the aid of spies and build a fort at the pass between Tarsus and Antioch. This would split the Seleucid’s realm in two. One army would then move west and take Sardis and Halicanarssus. Spy teams caused these to revolt and the garrisons fled. The other army held the pass. The army in Arabia would lay siege to Seleucia (which I was able to take) and threaten their eastern flank. This gave me a lot of income again and I was able to make another cavalry army, which aided in the final destruction of the Seleucid faction.
During the war with the Seleucids, Scythia declared war. Fortunately, they were a paper tiger. About nine spies went through Scythia like a wrecking ball, while three ships blockaded their Black Sea ports. I sent a cavalry army north to clean up what was left.
With the fall of the Seleucid faction in 213, I had met the goals of the short campaign. I am the top overall faction. If I continue, it should be a simple matter to turn what’s left of Egypt, Numidia, Cathage and Rome into a breakfast entré. ~D

Welcome to the Org, Agent Miles. It's an interesting expansion path you have, and certainly one of the best displays of diplomatic manoeuvre I've ever seen (as compared to the warmongers loitering in large numbers here who believe in slaughtering every army they come across, no offence meant :-P).

I don't believe I've made as liberal use of spies as you have, but it certainly is an option given the cavalry-sparse Parthian unit roster. Very impressive work for a first post. I'd never considered moving along the black Sea coast, I must confess. My thoughts were on striking south and west through the desert and along Mesopotamia to take out the eastern Seleucid Empire and hit Egypt at Jerusalem where they least expected it, to cut them in two.

Strategic considerations based on 'most advanced faction' in all my campaigns indicate that Egypt is the faction to beat because with their advancement they are capable of massing ranged units and chariots which will become your Parthians' nemesis. Hence you may wish to consider beating Egypt instead of playing them off against the Seleucids, because the Seleucids are infinitely more vulnerable with their fixation on phalanx units, and the relative vulnerability of their scythed chariots.

But otherwise, it's a very potential axis of advance that I will try when I play Parthia.

Thanks, you're most kind. So far, everything has worked without a snag. Having crushed the Seleucids, I attacked Sparta with a mercenary army of hoplites, thracians, cretan archers, peltasts and slingers. This finished off the Greeks and gave me a temple that grants three levels of experience to the Persian Cavalry trained there. I have blockaded all ports in Thrace, who are at war with my ally Macedon. I think that I will take her settlements and gift them to Macedon. This should make Macedon strong enough to cripple Brutii. I'm also giving denarii to Germania in hopes of slowing down Julii. Scipii I will take care of myself. As for Egypt, they attacked me outside of Damascus. I blockaded Alexandria and Sidon. Then I encircled and annihilated about forty Egyptian units, to include the Pharoah, in two great battles. Sidon fell also. I'm sure that in Alexandria they are ready to cry "Mummy". ~D

Little update on my campaign. I don't get to play a whole lot so I haven't gotten very far. But I've conquered all the way out to the west coast of Asia Minor. I forgot the northernmost town name there.

Meanwhile, I'm decimating every Egyptian army that comes after Seleukia. But they've now branched out and are sending some armies into Asia Minor after me. It's getting tougher. They've taken no cities from me, but I can't stop all their fully stacked armies. I'm only getting 2-3,000 for money. It sucks.

Pontus only has two cities left. I'll beat them, but I believe the Eggies will be relieving me of responsibility of some of my own cities here pretty soon. My horse archers and persian cavalry are too much for them. With 4-500 HA's and PC's I wipe out entire stacks of Eggie Armies. I manage to go back and retrain and hit the field again. BUt they've become so wealthy they are replacing one army with two.

If it continues on like this I'll be through. I can't get any help from the Seleucids who lost all their western cities.

What I'm hoping for is that I can take all of Asia Minor, securing my western flank and than take the Eastern Med coastal cities (Antioch, Damascus, Jerusalem, etc.) If I can't build catapaults soon I won't be able to accomplish this. The Pontic towns are easy enough, but the Eggie towns all have stone walls.

The situation is desperate. But I'm still alive. The next 10 turns will determine my survival or demise I think. I have to get the catapault range built and crank out at least one catapault for my "Army of Asia Minor" I'm confident the Eggie towns will be meat when that happens. I have to disrupt and delay Eggie movement in the vicinity of Seleukia and my eastern Asia Minor cities. I can only afford to lose one or two of those cities. If I hold onto Seleukia and Western Asia Minor I'll be good to go.

Play nomadic. Pack up your show and cross over to Greece. Surrender your eastern cities, let them starve the cities out and take them but don't bother with anything more than a one-peasant garrison. Leave eggy alone while you move into Greece. It's easier prey for you, since hoplitai are just Greek for 'sitting ducks'. Also, Italy, whose legionnaires are also Latin for the same. Take those out and you've got a far more profitable and much safer base of operations. Then you can adopt my Brutii strategy for a 'shock and awe' campaign on Egypt: Phase 1, 10 turns of diplomatic bribing, phase 2, kitting out 2-3-4 armies to land simultaneously at various points in the Egyptian empire while producing Grand Fleets to get naval superiority from the Egyptians and blockade them until they cry mummy, to borrow Miles' expression ;-) Then phase 3, complete annihilation based on three-pronged attack mixed with manoeuvre and splitting of forces to bewilder the AI. Let Pontus live as a bulwark against Egypt. If Seleucia dies, you can't help it. They're pretty much defenceless anyway. If you want to stop Egypt from touching Seleucia, try to build a fort at the crossing south of Seleucia. Chances are that the Egyptians have possession of Dumatha, so they will launch attacks from the deep desert. Build a fort at the crossing, and a watchtower at the extreme south to watch for Eggies.

If you can't fight them, bribe them. But to do that you need to make more than 2-3k a turn. To do that you need Greece and Rome, since your moneymaking Asia Minor is definitely NOT safe.

Egypt cannot be beaten in a casual campaign. Lots of planning and preparation needed to weaken them.

Two cities left and all of Asia Minor is mine. I'll be relieving the Eggies of responsibility for governing Antioch in the next two or three turns too.

I had an unbelievable turn of good luck. Seleukia was besieged and the city to the west of it as well. I submitted as protectorate to them in exchange for them paying me 3650 denarii for 10 turns. I moved my army to one of the bridges west of Seleukia. Sieges were lifted. Next turn, the Eggies attacked anyway. Three full armies attacked the bridge one at a time. And one at a time I David Copperfielded them. It bought me a lot of time to heal up my other very depleted army. The tide is slowly changing. I'm pulling in like 4,000 denarii per turn now. That still sucks, but it's better than the 1500 I was getting a few turns ago. I've kicked the Eggies out of Asia Minor completely. I only have two rebel towns left to take. Smyrna and the other one's name escapes me. Once Asia Minor is completely subdued I'm off to take the holy land. Eggies are still fielding a lot of full stacks, but they're dropping like flies when they attack my armies. This is definitely the most fun campaign I've ever played. I'm glad I didn't start over.

And Pezh,

I kind of took your advice. I didn't completely abandon the eastern cities, but I'm not really paying attention to them anymore. I've moved my capital to Samosota which is further west towards Asia Minor. I plan on moving it to Apamea since I've almost conquered all of Asia Minor. I'm focusing all my development on the Asia Minor Cities. The only city in the east I care about is Seleukia because it's fairly developed. And the eggies seem to be magnetized to it. I guess because of the world wonder attached to it. I kill most of the Eggies on the bridges by Seleukia. It's definitely my center of gravity right now. Thanks for all the pointers everybody.

What Or Who Are Eggies?persians?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VAE VICTUS

What Or Who Are Eggies?persians?

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Eggies=Egyptians
Persians=Persians. People who lived in what is now Iran. Or the name of empires formed by non-Persian people, but formed the empire or nation in the land of Persia (Iran).

Lol, first time I saw anyone ask about Eggies. Yay, dead knight, glad to know it works. As long as you defend at the Seleukia bridge you won't have any problems. The east is incredibly poor though. How's your campaign against Egypt doing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

Lol, first time I saw anyone ask about Eggies. Yay, dead knight, glad to know it works. As long as you defend at the Seleukia bridge you won't have any problems. The east is incredibly poor though. How's your campaign against Egypt doing?

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It's going well. I've taken all of Asia Minor now. IT's all mine. I'm about to grab Malta I think. The one with the Colossus Wonder. That'll boost my trade very well. I took Antioch also. They've besieged it, but I'll easily lift that. It's still a little hairy over by Seleukia. They've now figured out to bypass my army on the bridge and go around. I've had to fight a couple of battles away from the bridge. IT's no problem though. I win, I go to Seleukia to retrain and go back to the bridge. And now I've another 8 unit army over there to help keep them running around. I basically use this army to siege Eggie towns and turn their armies away from Seleukia. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. If it doesn't I attack with the 8 unit army and expend all my arrows on them. By the time they get to my main army in Seleukia they are at least 50% strength and ineffective.

The biggest thing going in my favor is that so far they have never put more than two archer units in their armies. I rarely see chariots and if so never more than one or two units of them. It's normally all phalangites. My HA's and Persian Cavalry chew them up slowly and spit them out. If I can't defeat them in one battle I at least attrit them down far enough so in the next battle I wipe them out. I rarely lose more than 20 or so men in a battle.

One disturbing thing though. Before taking Antioch I fought a battle and they had two units of Pharoah's Guard Bowmen. I thought for sure I'd take a bunch of losses. But what I did is surrounded their entire line. Whatever side of my circle they moved to I withdrew and closed the other side of the circle. I also kept moving the units laterally to help throw them off balance. Eventually a hole opened up and I sent my General and my only unit of cataphracts in to take out one of the PGB's. Also, they had one unit of Native bowmen. These idiots advanced ahead of the phalangites so I charged them with two units of PC's. Instant Route. These PC's took a few casualties from the sole remaining PGB. Not much. But before this last PGB unit did more damage I managed to get my general and cataphract units on them too. AFter that is was just a matter of taking out phalanx units one at a time with the classic


>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<
>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<
>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<
>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<
Persian Cav Enemy phalanx



^^^^^^^ Flanking Persian Cavalry
^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^

One at a time. Slow and STeady wins the race.

I will add this. If the Seleucids decide to declare war on me, I'm done. They'll be free to siege my towns and I won't be able to spare an army to stop them. Now, that of course is slowly changing. My income is increasing each turn. And after I take Malta I'm sure I'll be able to build an army to defend my eastern borders from them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dead Knight of the Living

I'm about to grab Malta I think. The one with the Colossus Wonder.

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Not even close. Malta is south of Sicily. Not to worry, you were only a few hundred miles out. :book:

I think the one with the colosus wonder was Rhodes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Not even close. Malta is south of Sicily. Not to worry, you were only a few hundred miles out. :book:

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WHat's a few hundred miles when your empire spans thousands. Hey, they're both in the Med. I was close. ~;)

Very true.

And jacked, you were right Colossus of Rhodes is located on Rhodes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Very true.

And jacked, you were right Colossus of Rhodes is located on Rhodes.

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Yeah, I missed that whole of Rhodes part. I'm square now. Good thing I'm not a travel agent.

My, imagine a tour to France to see the historic city of Pompeii... >.<

How on earth do you kill those &$E^%I%^ chariots?!?

They are ^£%*$£&^"$ impossible to kill with HAs. :furious3:

...arrows. Lots of them. And eastern infantry stacked really deep. You have HA, dammit! Stay away from contact since their scythes are nuts! Just shoot them to pieces... You don't have a choice, unless you happen to have a coupla cat units you can afford to lose...

2 ways with cav. With HA, engage them in a longrange fire battle. With shock cav, swarm them. Since you obviously don't want to sacrifice your cats to their 12 armour-piercing attack (12 ap > 9 ap, I hardly need tell you) don't use the second method.

1 way with inf. Beef up your slinger and peltast corps, spam a few useless EI units as fodder. Form up the EI deep, use your HA to attract the chariots to move close while getting behind the chariots, charge your EI, (or better if the chariots charge you) and then let your slingers and peltasts do the nasty work. Slingers are deadly accurate, can fire faster, and their attacks for some reason seem to have good effect on chariots, and peltasts have a bonus against chariotry. So.

One more thing which may be of use for you to know, and for you to make sense of: Chariots can run amok like elephants. Yeah.

Ah, so infantry are actually useful at times?

I've gotten into the habit of not building anything apart from HAs, so might want to upgrade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpawnOfEbil

I've gotten into the habit of not building anything apart from HAs, so might want to upgrade.

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In Parthia's case, downgrade might be a more suitable expression considering your choice of infantry :dizzy2:
Anyway, you can do it any way pez said plus another one: hold the line with your EI as described above and set your archers to flaming ammo. They will not cause terrible losses but the chariots are likely to run amok pretty soon, just as elephants.
One last note: Be aware of panicking chariots. Since they're routing, your cav will ignore them even with skirmish turned on --- so if they reach your cav, prepare for a carnage. Better watch them and take them out asap, or let them rout off the battlefield. Better still if they rout through your enemy's lines as most rtw generals are mounted. If you can cause a mass chariot rout, the enemy is more or less finished.

ah but note, deus, that Parthia has no archers. So archers on flaming ammo for Parthia is not practical. Only massed HA fire have a chance.

?? really ? .... [looking up]....

... dammit you're right! I entirely forgot about that. It's too long past that I played this faction ....and lost to Egypt btw. Well, it was my second campaign...
thanks anyway & cheers!

Parthia has archers in RTR 5.4. I'm using them to flame some elephants. I don't know about RTW 1.2 or any other mods. I keep archers in my garrisons most of the time. But I bring one in my field armies because the Eggies are picking up merc elephants. I use the archers just for them.

By the way. Egypt is as good as finished. I have Antioch, Dumatha, Haftra (I think), I razed Damascus, am about to raze Sidon. I have plenty of men and they have no prayer of defeating me. I took Rhodes and my trade income is much more phat. I've finally gotten to the point where I have to figure out ways to spend money rather than struggling to earn money.

I've gotten quite a few kataphract units and they spank anything the eggies throw at me.

Now I'm busy squashing rebellions. I don't know if it's an RTR trait, but the rebels are all over the place in my empire. I have two small armies dedicated exclusively to rebel crushing.

ANd in another couple turns I'll have the biggest navy around.

Dead Knight,
I bow before you. Thrashing the hell out of Egypt with the Parthians is what I have dreamt of since they ruined one of my earliest campaigns :bow:
You truly deserve a place at Zoroastra's side.

And no, the rebels are not a special RTR nuisance. It seems to depend on the campaign map difficulty setting, among others. If you have too much money, keep on bribing them and your exchequer will soon be relieved....

Wonderful work, dead knight... I'm about 10-20 turns away from starting to work on Egypt as Armenia. Hopefully their chariots aren't too much of a trouble. The Pontic ones didn't even touch me once before dying, and the Seleucid ones ran amok the instant my cataphracts made contact having been put under incessant arrow fire for goodness knows how long before that.

I feel I've been more lucky than not. The Egyptian armies I'm facing are full of phalanx, native auxilia, and Armoured Bowmen, with a general and usually one light native cav and 1 Cleuruch heavy cav unit. I've only faced chariots when I fought the Seleucids in the beginning of my campaign. They were quite a problem though I overwhelmed them with my HA's. I took a lot more casualties in those battles though.

The battles I have lost to the Eggies were when they grew enough brains to stack their units with archers. In those cases I end up having to withdraw and retrain. By that time they have divided their army up and I take them out one at a time.

I don't know why they haven't built chariots in this campaign, but if they'd have built them in sufficient numbers my story would be very different. I've crushed these phalanx armies with like only 6 or so HA or Persian Cav units. Phalanx is no match for HA.

Also, I seem to remember Egyptian generals being in chariots. In RTR 5.4 they are regular heavy cav. So, I think that's worked in my favor.

Well, in RTW Egyptian generals are first in chariots then they are heavy cav after upgrading. But I think chariotry are the better choice for Egyptians. I have a thing for their scythes.

My Eggies so far as Armenia don't seem to have much of a thing going for egyptian chariots which was their fetish when I was Macedon...

I haven't been bothered to read through this thread and see if someone has pointed this out already, but you DO NOT need infantry (vanilla parthian infantry is pathetic) or elephants for a siege. You don't even need siege equipment. When assaulting a huge city with full walls, you can stroll in and dominate if you simply send a full subterfuge spy ahead of your army (they aren't hard to get if you have been using this strategy throughout your campaign). So then you can just march in your HAs and cut down the town's garrisson with a shower of arrows.

Ya, but the thing is not all of us use spies THAT much, and it's useful to carry infantry along as a siege train so you have a garrison once the city is taken. And what will you do at the beginning before you get full-subterfuge spies, may I ask?

I think you start off with a spy in the Parthian campaign, (I play on Mundus Magnus, but I can't remember how it is in vanilla) so if you use him on some weak rebel provinces and stuff like that he gets his stars. You only need super subterfuge ones on big cities you know.

mmm... I see your point. But it seems a little un-warlike to me :) But, hey, this coming from the guy who uses diplomats more than his armies, maybe you should take what I say with a pinch of salt. :) In other news, I just built my first assassin EVER in 8 campaigns.

I love these guys. I managed to basically humble Eygpt by taking over Sidon, Jerusalem, and Alexandia with a 6 Horse Archer army, with two regular mercs and my general. Granted, my General has 9 Valour and 10 command stars, but, I still managed to kill two 1500 armies they sent at me, then conquer and destory their cities. My Generals stats, just from fighting the Eygptians, are:

Legendary Commander
Great Defender
Cruelly Scarred
Chancer
Cavarly Commander of Genius
Heroic Attacker
Utterly Fearless
Conquering Hero

And he's only 33! :dizzy2:

I hate Egypt. Officially. I'm playing Armenia and Egypt is THROWING chariotry at me. AUGH. But I have two mighty generals now in Egypt and they're doing nicely, with 10 command (by actual count, nearly 15) 5 management and 8 influence. Beautiful. And Egyptian academies are helping very much.

I have had a different experience with Parthia. I don't bother waiting to build up the economy I just attack simply because I kept going broke even with just a few troops being built. Take Seleucia on the first or second turn and then move the the next Seleucian city. Once there hold the bridge until you get sufficient troop upgrades to take Antioch.

Above Seleucia move your army west to take the rebel city and don't bother making alliance with Armenia because they won't keep it. Move into their territory with what you have and destroy them. When you get to the sea concentrate on trade and replenish your troops. Then move to Pontus. Take their main seaport because it is their main troop production city as well. This will give you Persian Cavalry and another valuable trade route to the rest of the world.

Meanwhile in the far north you should be wiping out scythia. If you move quickly with only horse units you can reach some of their cities before they build walls. If not have infantry bring up the rear. Build lots of watchtowers away from the roads along the way and you can pick your fights. Once you reach the river at Dacia and Thrace put forts on your side of the bridges and it tends to keep the enemy out of you area.

I got to Pontus, destroyed Scythia, and reached Antioch at the same time. For fun I engaged that little hidden barbarian city with the Amazon Chariots. (had never done it before) and I finished off Seleucia from two sides.

EGYPT: Egypt is a paper tiger and i don't care what anyone says. They are easy to destroy because they do not invest in a navy. I build a navy and with Elephants, Mercenary hoplites, and lots of archer/horse archer units I attack each of Egypts coastal cities. I can attack in one turn, destroy the defenders, then move all my troops out of the city and back to the boats except for my general. I then give the city back to Egypt or some faction I'm at war with and then capture the city again. Each time I enslave the population and increase the population of my good cities. Until I can take the pyramids it is going to be too hard to hang on to Egyptian cities. I also destroy all the improvements I can in the city. Then either give the city back to Egypt to prevent them from getting an instant rebellion army or I can give the city to the Roman Senate. I have never seen a city rebel from the Roman Senate EVER nor have I ever seen a faction take a city from the Roman Senate.
Move along the coast and repeat until Egypts major coastal cities have been reduced to 400 each and their ports, and trade, and troop production is devastated. Now you can move in-land and not face as many troops. Take the Pyramids first it makes life a lot easier.

Sigh I wish I could destroy the walls like the Greeks did to Troy.

By now you have taken enough cities that have advance troop buildings in place and you can rebuild your armies and prepare to move west.

Hey slicendice, it's not true that Egypt doesn't invest in a navy. It does. Problem is, you didn't give it time to :) Actually, Egypt's navy is mostly in the Red Sea, for reasons best known to Pharaoh...

I like to capture Egypt's cities whole and keep them. It's tough with Egypt if you are katanking. You tend to lose a lot of 'energy' quickly. It would certainly make life easier if you attacked both ends of the Empire at once to prevent them from responding concentratedly.

As to Egypt being a paper tiger, well.... That view bears some merit, but the confidence of that statement suggests you've never faced 3-heavy chariot 2 chariot archers 2-general 4 desert axemen 4 nile spearmen 5 bowmen armies before... o_O

The Egyptian navy is quite strong given enough time for them to develope it. One of the strongest in the game in fact. The weakness is that the AI doesnt use the fleet properly. If it did you'd find it quite challenging but, alas, the AI isnt very smart in sea battle tactics.

Also in the RtR 5.4.1 mod they put elephants into the Egyptian tech tree. This makes them a little tougher on land.

Slice, what you are doing to the Egyptians is what we call exploiting the AI. It's like occassionally gifting all your settlements to your enemy and then exterminating them for profit. Try conquering Egypt without your trick.

Guide tactics which exploit "loopholes" in the AI do not seem rare.

Has any Modder taken on the AI itself? Is it even accessible?

I think the consensus is that the AI is incorrigible and unmoddable. We've all given up on the recalcitrantly bad generals on the -other- side.

I've been dealing with numerous Egyptian full stacks of ships at sea, which are a serious pain, so I don't understand the comment about them not building a navy. Mileages may vary, I guess. I have the same experience with the Thracians, and even after wiping them out as a faction, the naval stacks are still there, just turned Rebel and they still have to be dealt with.

Can you bribe fleets? Rebel/pirate should be easier.....

*shakes head* you cannot bribe fleets. Not unless your diplomat is Jesus and can walk on water.

Just finished a very hard / very hard long campaign with Partia and decided to share some thoughts, like the "Yogol's thoughts on ..." that perhaps some of you know from Shogun and MTW.

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There are two decisions to make in the beginning with Parthia :

1. Attack Selucia or Armenia ?
2. How to handle the economy ?

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1. I decided to go for Armenia. The reason was that if you go for Selucia, you'll get in contact with the dreadful Egypts very soon and they are STRONG when you don't have you Kataprhacts yet.

So I conquered Armenia : I took the rebel city west of my capital and grouped ALL troops (from the far north with a boat and from the far south by foot) there. Then I took the two Armenian cities.

After that I took Pont. Then that-faction-who-is-so-small-I-don't-even-remember-their-name. Then I threw the Greek out of the Eastern parts (made peace with them afterwards, no need to take their cities in Greece itself). Only THEN I went after Selucia : their cities fell fast.

Then I was ready for the Egypts : they didn't get have a chance against my Kataphract-stacks, you're south of Gibaltrar before you know it, wondering why you didn't bring ships with you !

I managed to get GOLDEN kataphracts : +2 forge and an egyptian building that gave +1 to armor and weapons. I retrained all my Kataprhacts there and then just took whatever region I wanted to take untill 50.

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2. At the start the economy was terrible. Instead of trying to fix it, I decided to make it even worse and get all troops out of it that I could take : I sold all buildings that I didn't need and used ALL the money I had for horse archers (and one single road at my capital to move the troops from the south quicker). You'll go in debt VERY fast and deep (like minus 8000 after a few turns), but with a few city captures and looting it will get positive again. This way you got the most troops for your money.

Forget about building up your starting cities : once you take the Greek cities at the west of your little empire, move your capital. You'll get more money then you can spend (as in 20k per turn) this way AND you got bigger cities then your starting cities will ever get.

When you take the Egyptian cities, you should get 50k each turn. If you can't win the game with that much money, you should go play Tetris or Pong.

Once you go above 50k money in your treasury, you can remove ALL governers and make peasant garrisons instead, because those governers will cost ALOT ALOT of money once they get those money-spending traits :-(

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Some remarks...

a) Until now I usually let the computer resolve the battles but I noticed that with the horse archers you lose ALOT of them. So I played the battles "myself" : just run the archers to their enemy and go eat a sandwich, clean your desk or read a good book (I recommend the latest Harry Potter). Every once in a while the archers get into trouble, but that's an exception.

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b) Once you can make Kataphracts, don't make anything else, these troops will kill everything. E-VER-Y-THING. They are amazing, even if I don't have a clue how to spell their name :-)

Another benefit on these is that you can let the computer do the battles again, even he can win with these troops.

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c) A nice bonus of going west fast are the three wonders there, they make some happy citizens !

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d) After each battle, I merged the troops I could without losing units : if I got a stack of 20 I merged them so I got (for example) 16 at full strength and 4 at 1 or 2 soldiers. Those 4 units I retrained somewhere.

This way you can fight several fights in one turn, as long as your general doesn't get too few boduguards (somehow the AI always loses bodyguards in each fight, I don't know how he manages it).

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e) I'm still unsure what's best to take a city : use one troop of peasants and make use that tunnel-thingy or take one catapult with me in my army. I don't know, shrugh.

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Hope you find this useful (if anyone reads this board, it seems dead to me).

In English it's spelled:

c-a-t-a-p-h-r-a-c-t

Latin and Greek (other?) spellings exist, and the EB folks and others will have it spelled properly in their mods.


With a largely mounted army such as Parthia fields, it may be a good idea to have a separate half-stack army or two for siege work, letting your HA concentrate on field battles. Siege weaps and cheap infantry slow your main body if you mix. Parthia may use combined arms tactics, but is one of the few factions where keeping theelements separate may be the best choice.

The siege army should have infantry for sapping/rams etc.
The siege army should have a pair of onagers.
The siege army should have 1 or 2 cav units as flankers.

SF

Well, I finished off Egypt. After destroying their armies outside Damascus, I laid siege to Bostra and Petra. I chose to “starve them out”, so that the remaining Egyptian forces would be drawn into Asia in order to relieve them. The relief force had some chariot units. The trick to defeating chariots is to use War Elephants. Just get near them and the chariots run amok (or if you have a low frame rate, “trot amok” ~D ). The HA’s can then easily slaughter them. I was thus able to deal with the relief effort. Both settlements eventually fell without a fight from the garrisons. Now that they were defenseless, I also took the Nile settlements as Egypt collapsed. I have fortified the Nile and turned my attention elsewhere.
After smashing Thrace and gifting the settlements to my ally Macedon, the Macedonians betrayed me (and paid for their transgression). I had my armies hunt down the royal family of Macedon and slay them. Their settlements became rebel.
In the northeast, I’ve taken Campus Alanni and retaken Campus Sakae with one army. I am going to upgrade this force and finish off Scythia. I built a fort blocking the ford on the Volga and I will use this as a base for further expansion.
I’ve recycled my military. A temple in Athens upgrades my missile units to gold and I have a temple city with a foundry in Memphis that upgrades my units to golden armor and melee weapons. I’ve replaced almost all of the HA units with Persian Cavalry, who can shoot and fight. My field armies now have fifteen Persian Cavalry (arranged five to a group, on each flank and the center), with four Cataphracts and a general (change #1, I switched one of the Cataphracts out for a War Elephant unit). I was able to crush a Roman legion in a custom test battle with this arrangement.
I was forced to make siege armies because my spies were unable to penetrate Roman settlements and open the gates. I have two siege armies, each with four Onagers, four cataphracts, a general and an assortment of Eastern Infantry and Archers (as well as two mercenary hoplites and two cretan archers) for support. The Onagers blasted the gate at Brutii held Thermon and made for a great show! The remaining garrison was “cat” food.
I’ve built an armada and blockaded all Roman faction ports. Eight Brutii armies are decending on Greece, where my armies are staging. It looks like a real cataclysm brewing! I am going to take Sicily, Caralis, Carthage and Thapsis with the siege armies while my field armies bleed the Romans white in the Balkans. This should leave Italy defenseless. So far, continuing with the long campaign has indeed been worthwhile and interesting.

I play RTR each one with different type/race ? First obvouusly Romans , then Macedon (hellenistic) , then I was confuse either Barbarian or the Eastern faction . Since as Roman or Macedon I always on war footing with barbarians I decide to venture east. Seleucia is too much like greeks , egype (ptolemaic) looks wonderful but I prefer to have them as enemy (great battles assured!!)

Then it came to Armenia or Ponthia . Looks at unit description . Same but Armenia will eventually got legion . Nice. And Parthia . Well Didn't they get elephant ? I'm not much fond of elephant (esp tone down stat for RTR) and also the color (ungu in malay / eer.. duno what's in English purple ? violet ?) definately turn me off.

So it's Armenia .

Cheers..


Upps. I'm in a wrong thread...

Just started my war with the Brutii myself. Got rid of HA's as soon as I could, so around 250 or so. Romans attacked me four times in one turn with a total of 12000 men. Shot the crap out of them.

vh/m - vanilla 1.2 + player1s BugFixer
My own Parthia campaign is not going so well! Although the map is turning out to what I would call my wierdiest yet...

Following some advice from here I used HAs en mass and wondered what all the fuss was about. That was until they started getting some chevrons each - then it made sense. I took Thraapsa and Arabia straight away and started planning who to attack - only to find out that Egypt, Selucid, Armenia, Pontus and Sycthia had all allied and none were ineterested in letting me join! I was poor and there was no conflict to take advantage of ~:eek:

While wondering what to do, Egypt made the decision for me by sieging Arabia. I didnt have trouble with their units, only the never ending stream of them! Well, you all know about that here. I lost my army commander, Arses (nice name - Egypt kicked my Arses!!) and the dude on garrison trying to defend.

I cant afford more armies, my family tree has been halved, I cant cover all the borders with such a big alliance smothering me (never seen ALL these guys ally before) and a big rebel fleet in the Caspian is preventing me shipping my reinforments from the North (damnit!).

So I take a protectorate offer from Egypt to tide me over but all my provinces are high/very high taxes and I only make 800d a turn. This is bad, I cant break out and they are all only going to get stronger the longer I leave it. But with my one and a half army I cant see a way out. Well, not one that won't see my enemies pour in from all directions.

I have actually allied with Thrace but they refuse to help.

Anyway, thats just just the frustrating part! The better part is the wierd map and this is the only reason I havent quit and restarted yet:

Thrace is massive and has exterminiated the Macedonians early. Greece was exterminated early. The Jullii havent taken any towns, as far as I can tell they built a fort inbetween their 2 starter cities and parked the entire army there! Instead, the Brutii have taken Patavium and Segesta (the Jullii 1st mission) and all round the coast to Thermon.

I never seen the Bic Mac and Greece be exterminiated so early, Thrace be so successful, the Jullii not move an inch, the Brutii think they can do all the work and the entire east (minus me!) allied. Normally losing half my family and being poor would inspire me to restart but it is so different from any other campaign I have played I just cant put it down! If only I was Carthage, I could use my trusty "Man of the Hour" abuse to bulk up my generals count.

Apologies for the long post but I felt the need to share!

On a side note, seeing the success of Thrace in certain provinces in this game led me to start my own Thrace campaign and take on Macedonia. I never knew Falxmen were so devestating to cavalry, even the general units! So long as they a deployed deep enough to withstand the charge. I almost feel sorry for the Cav. Almost. My new favourite unit - the Falxmen!

If you're going to be crushed by a huge alliance, your best chance of saving the campaign is moving north. Piledrive into Scythia. It's ambitious, but it could work.

EDIT: Try and agree a ceasefire with the alliance factions (those that are at war with you), otherwise they might chase you to the end of the earth, or just the northern steppes. ~;)

@gmjapan
I would recommend taking out Armenia. You can blitz them in three turns with a spy and some luck. Then you have a port on the Black Sea. From there, you can invade Kydonia and then Rhodes and Salamis. If you put forts next to the river crossings on your northern border with Sythia and the mountain passes in the south, you should be fairly secure. The ports give you enough denarii to continue expanding, more than you would get from taking Scythia.

Good for you. Your map and the progress of this game are simply too "rich" to stop it. THRACE!!!???! How fun!

Previous advisors have given good advice though:

Fort-up your southern border.

Pick a direction N (lots of space, hard to "pin" you) or W (those islands are lucrative, especially if you can add Western Islands as well).

3rd option is a raiding army on an exterminate/enslave "jihad" just to build cash up and allow you to build nearly unbeatable armies to go South.

Seamus

By going north, you'll be able to take the Bosphorus, and then eventually take the islands.

Of course, taking out Armenia is another smart option because it'll give you a stronghold, and perhaps a bit more cashflow. By taking Armenia, you also have a starting point for an invasion of Asia Minor. Especially if you can pincer with an extra army from Rhodes/Salamis.

Cool peeps, thanks for all the suggestions!

I went for the Armenia break. The relocation by piledriving through Scythia was my favoured option as it would link me up with Thrace eventually and give me a more defendable locale away from the bad guys but I decided against it due to previous "relocating" experience with Germania. The lands are huge and I hate crossing them for so little return. That would slow down my re-emergance for my "revenge tour" of the East! And that is the bit I am looking forward to the most!

So I used my protectorate status to buy me time and I spent my meager 800d income each turn on Briremes in the Caspian until I had enough to beat the rebel fleet. Took a while (so unfair - how did they get so many Triremes for the start those turds!) but it unblocked my port for more income and gained a direct route to much needed re-informents from the North, I couldn't really do anything without them. I disbanded all but one ship that now blocks the Scythian port there.

With the reinforments I started the "blitz Armenia" campaign that set me at war with Armenia, Pontus, Sycthia, Seculids and, oh yeah, Egypt. Armenia went down in 4 turns (my spy was useless!), easy and gave me a few benefits - a new port on a new sea, more cash and (more importantly) the alliance of five is now an alliance of four! Haha. Okay, so it is only two towns from one of the weaker opponents but it feels like more.

On the flip side, it has introduced more than a few problems - I am back at war on so many sides for one thing. They all seem too eager to attack. The huge Selucid and Egypt armies that were hovering on my borders just growing and staring before made a beeline for my towns. There are rebels blocking vital road trade that I cant deal with because I cant afford to spend two moves chasing them and then two moves to get back.

Using the speed of an all horse army I smashed into the Selucid town with the wonder and then the neighbouring province west completely ignoring their invading armies. I used the siege on their towns to lure their invading armies out of my territory and force them to deal with me. This plan worked great and I thought was more pro-active than chasing them around as they laid siege to me. Plus, I gain a town whilst getting an opertunity to kick their arse - and that makes me smile!

So I have made some progress (yay!) and it feels better but the full effect of my actions hasnt hit yet because it hasnt really improved my finances greatly and the enemy armies are likely still "on-route".

I cant yet afford the forts and a garrison to block the passes but I am willing to count on the inability of Scythia to mount an effective assualt for now (uh-oh!) but this is a high priority and I really need some in the south. The other problem building forts is I have now lost more family members to old age so there is only really the army commander available to do it and he is, er, kind of busy!

So far I have had the importance of HAs hammered into me. I know it was said by the posts at the start but I find the key is experienced HAs. The green units are near useless and I almost abandoned them wondering what all the fuss was but it slowly started to happen and now they are holding my empire together (ish!). Do whatever you can to get them experienced and preserve them! Fight and withdraw, retrain or flee until they can hold their own in battle. Others have said it better.

Hot damn! This is much more fun than than prancing around Gaul with the Julii.

Send the commander off with some light forces to build you those forts and towers.

Meanwhile, your army's "captain," given that you are doing the fighting for him, should be able to earn a family spot as the man of the hour -- and it sounds like you need more factioneers.

Seamus