Britannia

Hi Biggles, and let me be the first to welcome you to the Org! Trust me, your thread isn't long... you should look at some of mine ;-)

Okay, firstly. The Julii full-stacks. You will have problems beating their legionary fullstacks, that is true. I will advocate plentiful bribing to remove those armies you can't fight. Assuming that by Marian times they will have 7-8 provinces (assuming, because no Roman faction has ever survived till the reforms before in any campaign of mine) it will be easy to take down their peripheral provinces to drive them into debt. If they don't, then their home provinces are there are, and if you defeat enough of their armies they will run out of population to raise any more new armies. That happened for me as the Julii against the Gauls. They kept sending 20-stacks, then slowly it dwindled to 15-stacks, then to 5-6 stacks that I just irritatedly bribed away. So it will be for the Julii. Bribe. If you've conquered so many places you must be making at least 20k a turn with full economic infrastructures up and running. Denarii were earned to be spent, so make them well-spent. Save your game before bribing any family member of the enemy, because once you fail he will never be bribable again. If you can't bribe him, then the price is simply not high enough. Save up more. You must be patient with the Julii. Don't try to make gains; just sit back and make Mediolanum-Patavium your frontier, building forts at every Po river crossing. The AI never sieges forts, so your frontier will be safe while you subtly undermine their capability for war. Meanwhile, expand elsewhere to get more money for ever more ambitious bribes. Don't fight the battles you can't win. To quote, 'Infinite gold are the sinews of war.'

If you really want to fight the Romans, lure them into bridge battles whenever possible. I recommend the one just west of Rome. For that, though, you will have to undertake a risk in transporting a full-stack army by sea behind the Julii lines. As long as you stand -on- the ford itself and allow an army to attack you, you will have a considerable advantage in merely defending the ford against any comers. When fighting that battle, simply mass your troops in a semicircle on the other end of the ford. If you cannot fight at a ford, then your battles are sure to be high-cost, but still winnable. In this case you would keep your chariots in the rear, all massed at one spot on the line. You must take the offensive even in a defensive battle if your troops are to stand up to the enemy. Stretch your line to match the length of the Roman line, and engage them along the entire length. Then, when all are engaged, hurl your chariots at weakest point in the enemy line, charging right through the enemy. Since Romans are sword infantry they will not have any bonus against cavalry/chariotry, so you can burst through them. Chariots can frighten infantry, so use that effect to the max. Charge and charge again. If you have light chariots, rain arrows. If you have heavies, then use them for their god-given purpose. After one unit routs, devote your tender loving care to the ones next to them. The more units rout in a short time, the better since the higher the chance the rest of the army will rout. Your chariots will take great maulings, but they are your decisive arm and since in one-to-one combat you cannot beat legionnaires, the only way to kill them is to make them run. After a victory, retreat and retrain your chariots. Then return for more. After you destroy a few of their stacks and you can see there are only one or two left, begin the besieging of their settlements. Keep using bribe if you can to make your life easier. Remember your objective isn't to win every battle, but to capture provinces. So if you can avoid a fight, well and good.

My strategy against the Romans is, despite all that typing, only theoretical, because as I said, I have never faced legionnaires except in the Roman civil war. Otherwise, I make Rome my first priority for conquest so they cannot get Marian reforms. Furthermore I have never played Britannia before, but I have fought them in many campaigns and squared up against Romans as Gaul, which is pretty close I daresay.

Secondly, Large Boats, buildable at shipwrights. They are your only answer (if an inadequate one) to Triremes. Don't get yourself into a naval battle if you can help it. Build only what ships you need to accomplish your transport objectives. That is the lot of a barbarian navy. They are simply -not meant- to engage civilised fleets. Not at such a late stage when they have good ships. Alternatively, if you -really- want to sink a few ships, use multiple fleets. 3 20-stack fleets of large boats will certainly be enough to destroy one 20-stack fleet of triremes. To ensure the enemy does not live to fight another day after his defeat, place each of your three fleets on one of the 8 red squares surrounding the enemy fleet, then put one ship into each remaining square. Being completely surrounded, an enemy fleet once defeated will sink and never surface again. That's the only naval trick you can use without naval battles being played out.

Thirdly, I think you have the wrong temples. Try the one for the god of war or something to that effect. Reading the long description of the temple will give you some good clue to what they can build, since it is not apparent from the description of shrines at the beginning. Alternatively, just google 'RTW + temples list' or something to that effect, and download whatever spreadsheets and PDFs come your way. I have one that is really very good--tells you all the traits, effects, bonuses, and buildable units come with each temple all on one excel spreadsheet which is a little hard on the eye at font size 7 but tells you everything.

Fourthly, there is no such thing as Bastarnae cavalry. I assume you mean Sarmatian cavalry? That's the only heavy cavalry mercenary unit I know of. Sarmatians are good starter troops for shock cavalry-poor factions like Thrace and the Scythians. But after you develop your own cavalry capability they will almost surely be outclassed by your own buildable models. Bastarnae infantry are good mainly because of their 2HP, and I regularly use them in tandem with their brother mercenaries the Thracians, as general-hunting forces. I attract the general to charge, then position them in depth right astride the enemy general's path. They can cut a bodyguard cavalry into pieces in no time.

Hope this has been useful, cheers! Take two bridge battles and see me in the morning. ;-)

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Originally Posted by Biggles20

Hello All, this is my first post on this forum so Greetings from me!

I only started playing RTW recently (though I havent played in about 6 months because I've been away from home at Uni and without a desktop for some time).

Anyways, it seems I'm at odds with most on this forum as I seem to remember struggling on my Brittania campaign (my first ever RTW campaign). I remember that I had conquered the British Isles, as well as all of Gaul, Spain, Dacia and some of Germania and even some of North Africa, all without too much difficulty.

However, I have a few major problems. Firstly, I remember being at war with the Julii, and seem to remember having a serious man-power shortage trying to ward off their seemingly endless stream of full stacks (unfortunately they've just had the marius reforms I think) around the top of the Italian peninsula. I just can't seem to make any gains without losing them again to those damned Romans.
Secondly, I have a huge problem with my fleet of ships as even in stacks of 20 ships, the Roman ships are still far superior to mine - how the heck is one supposed to beat triremes, let alone better Roman vessels?

Thirdly, I dont seem to be able to build Woad warriors or Head Hurlers - do I have the wrong temple(s)?

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1. This is a problem we all had to deal with. I guess you hold these two Gaulish towns north of the Julii. Defend them and gather your armies there. Once you cleared the suroundings go south. You should have three independant corps and some smaler cav units as well as spies. Try to attack the Julii towns simultaneously. If a field army comes to free the town - retreat. Only fight if you are sure to win. Watch all their armies and keep them busy with your cav units. Use spies to take the towns at once. Block all their ports. :duel: :army: :rifle:
2. Avoid the sea. Might be hard for Britons but you can fight them at land.
3. Take a look at post No 62
Good luck!

Yeah, Franc and I have the same way of thinking. Great minds think alike, way to go Franc!

But a question. What are your views on the Britons leaving Gaul alone and expanding into Germania as the campaign AI always seems to do?

Pez,

haven't tried that. There might be some difficulties:
- You can form a lasting alliance with Germania; you cannot do this with Gaul.
- Gaul will attack Sambarovia. If you do not want to bother you have to give it to them.
- Germania is so damned poor. You will not make enough money. Gaul pays.
- If you are at war with both, Germania and Gaul, this will effect your seatrade.

Good thing is that in my last campaign Gaul never tried to cross the channel.

I think you can reach the Med going through Gaul as fast as by going through Germania.

If you do not want to attack Gaul first you can chose a more British way and attack Spain. It takes some time to bring your army there.

Another idea would be to leave even Spain alone. Ship all your armies to the Med and attack Carthage, Sicily, Rhodes or whatever you like to. Takes time before the fighting starts, but then it will be fun, I'm sure.

I've heard lots of people complaining about British chariots and Generals Bodyguards. I agree that they are dreadful against infantry, so as part of a MOD I call the realism MOD, I have given most chariots around 20 attack and charge bonus, and increased the attack of the swordsmen on them. This makes them capale of actually defending themselves against infantry. I used to lose tons of chariots fighting against rubbish infantry like Warbands. If anyones interested in downloading my realism MOD, it should be in the download section of RTW Heaven fairly soon.

Hardly. I realise that it's the mount defence and mount armour that kills most of the time, because a lot of my test chariot battles show that it's the chariots that are destroyed first, not the swordsmen. You need to increase the protection on the chariot because once the chariot goes, so does the entire crew, and so what if they have 3-4 HP? It'll be run down in a moment with such crappy armour and defence.

I increased the Swordsmens attack and armour. AS WELL as that, I increased the chariots HP. British Heavy Chariots now have 5HP, and light chariots have 3HP. Along with the increased chariot attack, this made chariots decent against infantry.

No need to upgrade British chariots. Once you get used to them they will win every battle for you. Currently I fought all Roman factions. Usually I try to flank them with two heavy chariots and hit them in the flank or rear. In the meanwhile my ranging troops soften them and the infantry is passive. Firts eliminate all enemy cav. Heavy chariots work very well. Then attack the inf. They will retreat at once. You cann roll through theír lines from one side to the other. When they start routing let your infantry chase them.

But Chariots should be used for more than just running round infantry to knock them over while your infantry attack from the front. Chariots should be able to fight at least half-decently by themselves. Normally, Heavy Chariots would lose to units like Warbands if they charged them.

Precisely. And that's where the whole mount armour and defence comes in. Increasing HP isn't going to work and it's not realistic because chariots and horses couldn't take all that many hits. It's more realistic to leave the HP as it is but increase the amount of armour slabbed onto the battlecars. Chariots by right were not used as flankers but as shock forces. So the armour of your chariotry should reflect that. As to using ranged troops to soften the enemy, how'd you do that Franc? Every time I try to use ranged troops to soften up ANY enemy, as long as they were not archers, they would be immediately chased by the enemy's cavalry before they even had a chance to fire a volley, forcing my cavalry/chariotry to come out to save their necks.

Just finished my first B campiagn. I changed the boumdaries a bit. My target was to get all islands on the map plus Jerusalem as fast as possible. Restrictions were not to attack any town held by Gauls and not to bribe.
Well, there are two possible strategies: Figjht all the way through Germania to the Med or put your armies on board and swim. I decided to swim. I shipped my armies to Spain and conquered the Spanish towns. I succeeded without major problems. However, Gauls kept on attacking me. Though I could easily kill them it took far too long. I took Carthago Nova in 256. Then I had to wait until 241 until I got the first town on Sicily, my next major target. Once there it was easy. Scippi had the whole island and I 'liberated' it in 235. To secure it and to get more money I landed in Italy and conquered everything upto Capua. Whem I attacked Rome the Senate took me by surprise and killed my army.
Then I took the main army on board again and headed eastwards. Jumping islands was no big thing. Most trouble I had was unhappiness and money. So I erased the pop of every new town.I finally reached and took Jerusalem in 215.
Despite all the others I think heavy chariots are a killer. I fought 52 battles, won almost every one and all the times the chariots made the decisive strike. Rest of your units are weak, besides chosen swordsmen, maybe. I had an army with 7 heavy chariots and they could easily chase every Roman army they met.
Here is something for those who like numbers:
I fought 52 land battles
I killed 42,000 soldiers
I lost 11,000 men.
Killing ratio is 3.7. ~D

Ah, but no bribing is a major constraint :-D

Pez,
can you make bribing guide. I never tried to and to be honest I never have enough money to do it. I spend all my money for my own troops.

Big stacks of enemies cost too much. Small ones are just not worth being bribed. You can easily kill them and gain experience.

Gladly. I shall attempt to write a guide to diplomacy as a powerful supplement to armed struggle (that sounds communist, hmmm) but I warn that it will not be as professional as Quietus' or frogbeastegg's... I'm a soldier. I don't know subtle, but there's no problem that a big chest of gold and a wall of sharp pointy sticks won't solve. :-)

Why don't you call it:
A guide based on the principles of Marxism-Leninism about diplomacy as a powerful supplement to armed struggle to counter imperialistic agressions especially the US and Singapoore ~D

er....Franc? O.o *checks for fever*

Okay, you're certified insane. Lololol....

Can Britons get stone walls. And I mean in native lands, not a freshly conquered Carthage.

Nope, just wooden.

Barb factions can upgrade to minor cities, but they don't have access to the stone walls that would commonly come with a city.

Which would probably be slightly unfair, at least under some circumstances. Imagine to be able to man your stone walls in every city with, say, chosen archers ....it would take a lot to conquer such a barbarian empire.

It's a shame, but I don't think there's any record of barbarian civilisations ever having stone walled cities, so that's why they don't have access in the game.

i gues they did that to make it more historical.

...which is fine as far as I'm concerned. Even Alesia and Gergovia only had wooden walls.

This is only my second campaign, and my first full(50 provinces + rome) campaign...

What I've done so far, is basically cut a swath down the middle of Gaul countries. I took Condate Redonum first, followed by Alesia. Then hit Lemonum and Massilia because it was really lightly defended. Then Lugdunum and Narbo Martius. I also grabbed Tara pretty early on, but that wasn't a big deal.

The Gauls never really gave me any trouble at all, only Germania has been causing any problems by attacking Alesia, Samarobriva and Lugdunum randomly. I threw up 2 forts in the Narbo Martius territory to cut off Spains easy access and one in Aquitania. Also one in the pass near Massilia that leads to Julii territory. The only Gaul outposts left it would seem are in Numantia and Mediolanium. I'm content to let them have them for now as my generals haven't been having many babies...so I'm going to call my forces home for a few turns and work on baby making and town building. I've got watch towers on the borders of Germania territory so I can see when they are coming and keep two generously garrisoned armies in Alesia and Samarobriva.

I have to figure out at this point whether I want to head east into Germania or West into Spain. I was thinking about taking out Spain first since it's a much smaller area to try and control and then I can work East towards Germania once I secure the penninsula.

Suggestions are welcome on what direction I should take, I've got 11 regions and 247 turns left. I have some good generals and thick armies and I'm ready to expand in either direction, I was just thinking Spain since it's a smaller area by far and it won't be so hard to defend.

I would say take down Germania if you want to have more diplomatic fun later on fighting other factions. Spain limits you. And if your spanish are still fortified mao in descr_strat, you're going to have a hard time with them anyway, so go for Germania. Somehow, they're always Britannia's traditional enemy, so play by that line. Since you've already adopted a defensive stand on Spain, complete it by fortifying the north-coast approach to Asturica via Numantia, fortify the approach from Numantia to Lemonum, as well as the pass at the southern end of the Pyrenees, and the pass in front of Osca. Defend from Spain and head into Italy via Germania. Once you take the German and Dacian provinces, as well as Segestica and Salona you will have a nice defensible frontier that you can fortify and stop behind. Scythia will never be a threat to you, and the salient you create with Porrolissum and Campus Iaazyges is easily defended because of the protection of the Carpathian mountains. After you get continental Europe you can then sit pretty while you take out Spain and West Africa, and leave Greece and Macedon and the Brutii to fight it out. Otherwise I would say Spain its really not worth your time right now, not until right at the end when you take Corduba-Tingi to get the trade that makes it all worthwhile.

I took the plunge into Spain after reading this because when they declared war on me they brought all three of the main roman factions into it as well. So i figure it should be a quick conquest, then on to germania.

One thing I'm noticing, after playing the Julii...it seems that money is a lot harder to come by. Or I should say that the Julii have a lot easier time raking money in via the coastal provinces or at least thats the way it seems to me. I'm not pulling in hardly any money.

Hmmm do you know that the British are potentially the richest Barbarians IMHO? Even if they more or less stick to their starting provinces.

1) in Britain itself, trade goods are ample. Thus, build roads and traders to exploit this.

2) the sea connection Londinium-Samarxxx in Belgium is your real cash-cow in early game. Be sure to build ports in both settlements ASAP and they will roll in the dough for you.
If you already conquered North Gaul, build ports there as well -- sea trade across the channel is very profitable in general.

3) conquer Ireland and set up a similar sea trade route as mentioned above. You will soon see results.

I never had less financial problems when playing Barbarians than when I played Britain...of course, compared to the Julii you might be on the downside because they get a lot of cash out of the Senate missions and can also gain some nice trade routes by conquering Spain.

I've played as the Britons for quite some time now and I must say they are much better than all the other factions I've yet played. Though I'm hardly using any of those cursed chariots though. I just took Bordesholm, Batavodorum and Tara at the beginning to get some money. Left big garrisons there, enslaved the populace and soon I was gettin like 6000-7000 denarii per turn. I built most of the trade buildings and the infantry-making buildings and when being able to produce chosen swordsmen (love them :bow: ) I took on against the gauls, leaving the germans for what they are. I easily conquered their whole territory and whiped them out. The Germans didn't attack me yet, apart from some little sieges on Trier and Batavodorum. Now I'm about to attack the Julii which were, up till now, completely crushed against my great swordsmen (love them :bow: ).

By the way I read somewhere on this forum that someone played his first campaign as the Britons. How is that possible, because you have to wipe the faction out first, isn't it? Maybe someone has an answer to this ~:confused: ?

By the way this is my first post on this forum ~:eek:

Welcome to the Guild ~:wave: :juggle:

On RTW, you unlock a number of factions after completing your first campaign as a Roman faction. Some others can be unlocked by modifying a Data file.

If you do want to unlock the unplayable factions, make sure to back up the files and make sure you know what you are doing..

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Welcome to the Guild ~:wave: :juggle:

On RTW, you unlock a number of factions after completing your first campaign as a Roman faction. Some others can be unlocked by modifying a Data file.

If you do want to unlock the unplayable factions, make sure to back up the files and make sure you know what you are doing..

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My point was that the guy who posted it said that his campaign with the Britons was the first campaign he ever played. So I presume that isn't possible ??

It is. With game editing.

If you don't want to play a campaign with the Romans (to unlock the unlockable factions), you can edit the game.

What you would do, is copy Britain from unlockable into playable. After doing so, you would delete Britain from unlockable. Then, you have another faction to choose from for your first campaign.

All righty then :P

Happy to have helped. ~;)

I just played a custom battle with the British - I was testing to find out how many soldiers my graphics card could handle (3200 - terrible), but decided to play the battle anyway. I won it, easily, but my army consisted of only 4 different units (Warlord, Light Chariots, Chosen Swordsmen and Head Hurlers). Has anyone got bored of the Briton units towards the end of a campaign? I got bored of Thrace's roster fairly quickly.

I really got bored of the British Units. Mainly because of the fact that I actually only use chosenswordsmen head hurlers and Light Chariots (almost the same like you~:cheers: ). Though I really still think the Chariots completely suck. They have a very bad morale and will rout easily if they take too many losses. I just stopped playing after I conquered Rome. Because it really got boring:sleep:

Well, the easy tactic when using those units is to send Light Chariots forward, slaughter them with arrows, then let what's left engage with your Chosen Swordsmen - they should be capable of finishing whatever survived the arrows (with Head Hurlers throwing over the top) - and then if your Chosen's aren't finishing the job, send your Warlord round the back to finish the job (while your Chosen's hold the line).

These tactics will work almost all the time, but I have found enemies getting used to tactics in RTW and doing their best to wreck them - I really liked using a defensive crescent of phalanxes when playing Macedon, and by the end of my campaign in Italy, the Julii refused to go into the centre of my crescent.

Ok I'm reading all kinds of things that people are playing as Thrace and Macedon. How is that possible?

And where do I have to put factions from locked to unlocked?:help:

Search for Mikeus Ceaser's "Modding for Dummies", a link should be in his sig, or PM him so he can send you a link. Anyway, this tells you how to unlock all factions.

Tezeu's strategy! :charge:
I play on VH/H.
I read here, I read there. Hmm! What the f...! Let's start and I'll see.
So I analyzed: what position I have on the map, what kind of troops(- and +), Who are my neighbours and which are their strategies ON LONG TERM? But their neighbours? Bla, bla, a lot of questions.
Conclusions:
1. I'm very weak at the beginning.
2. I'm lucky with the position on the map.
3. I have two strong neighbours.
3.1. Germans - strong, at the beginning and most important....very compact position.
3.2 Gauls - strong, lots of armies, very aggresive but TOO LARGE empire and for this reason.....too many enemies.
4. For beeing a really strong faction, I must have a great base of operations on Mediteranean Sea. This will be a point for expand my empire and will help me to take Athens, Corinth, Sparta, the most important cities in the game and also Sicilly.

What I decided.

1. Must important, to ally with Germans. Their are compact and if I get into a war with them, I will be forced to maintain all the time a strong army. This means cost and I will cannot have the posibillity to grow my cities very quick.
2. To ally with everybody is posibly.~:)
3. To ally with Gauls. ~:) They will attack anyway after only few years.
4. To take Tara.
5. To expand Londinium quickly to next level.
6. To strengthen my only city from the continent. This will be at the beginning very important.

The facts:

1. I started sending Cwnbar with a Light Chariot, the druids and two warbands to take Tara. My light chariots killed alone almost all troops(!!!) with their arrows.
2. The rest of the troops I disbanded in Londinium.
3. I set all the towns to law taxes.
4. I send the diplomat to ally with Germans and Gauls. After that, I sent him in Italian Peninsula and to the greeks.
5. I made another one and I sent him through Dacia, Scythia and so on.
6. I sent the spy to expand his abilities through Gauls cities. ~:)
7. For five turns, I create peasants in the two cities from the island and I disbanded them in Londinium.
8. I made shrines, traders, roads and so on.
9. Gauls attacked me with a blocade at Londinium. This was the point were I started pumping troops. In this moment I had money around 23000.
10. I made two armies. I sent one to take Alessia and to stop only after taking Massilia. The second army, I sent to take Condate and all the cities on that side of the map. In this way, the Gauls are practically finished. Their are cut in two.
11. I moved the capital to Alessia.

In this moment I just "arrived" to Massilia. This will be my new base operations for taking Sicilly and greek-macedonian cities.
Second army is continuing it's campain to take Spain. Osca was taken by Julii and this is creating a little problem but I think I will manage the situation.

I'm sorry for my poor english.
If you have comments, please, tell me!

P.S. The chariots with their arrows are awfull. Nobody can face them.:charge:

Started my first post-BI Briton campaign a few days back and I'm having a blast. I think my first Briton campaign was with 1.1, and although I won the short campaign (on M/M probably), I was EXTREMELY disappointed by the weakness of the generals' chariots. It seemed like their chariots were made of balsa wood. It didn't seem right for a barbarian warlord to be sitting back out of the action, so I can tell you I lost a ton of generals in the most pathetic melees. My very first test of the chariots was with a tiny rebel force, and when my main force got the peasants to rout, I sent in my general to mow them down. I was horrified to watch the chariots running around in the mob of peasants, flipping some peasants over but NOT KILLING ANYTHING.

Happily, this all seems to have changed. Playing H/H, I am now well into my 1.3 Britannia game, and the generals have performed admirably! They usually get the most kills in my after-battle stats (well, probably because I always make sure to send them after routers ~:cool: ), and I've only lost 2 generals - both to those damn German Spear Warband...after charging them in the *back*~:rolleyes: .... but I digress. The generals' chariots are very effective against almost all infantry, they hamstring cavalry, and they actually *kill* things now. Sometimes they hack down at guys with their swords, sometimes they literally just run them over with the horses. Either way it's great! I find they're best used in combination with infantry (of course): send in the infantry first and follow up with a chariot attack from the rear/flank or just plow through everything and head straight for the enemy general. Sure, you'll knock over your own guys, but they'll get back up and they won't be as horribly demoralized as the enemy.

The Heavy Chariots that you can train at the Weaponsmith are working nicely, too. They're more expendable than my generals, so I usually put them right on the flanks of my main force along with some light chariots, and send them to attack flankers. Once I get enough of them in one army, I plan to put them in front of my infantry and charge them straight into the enemy, head-on, following up with some Chosen Swordsmen and Woad Warriors (for their speed & tattoos ~D ). The infantry should make short work of the chaotic mob of enemy infantry my chariots have just hacked through. Add some wardogs and head hurlers into the mix, with a unit of druids chanting in the background, and it's almost too easy.

My strategy so far has been to turtle up. I took Tara and built, built, built. I made alliances with Germany and Gaul, and Germany was the only one so far to outright betray me. Gaul dropped their alliance but stayed neutral -- they're being slowly ground down by Spain and the Julii. I wanted to keep my kingdom small and let the Julii get strong so they'd be something of a challenge; plus I didn't want to spend the whole game just fighting barbarians. I worked my way through Germany when they betrayed me, sacked Bordesholm, assassinated many family members and whittled down their armies. When I exterminated Mogontiacum and Trier I was pleased to find that the Germans had already built those towns up to the highest level, so I decided to stay for now. So that's where I am right now -- 7 modest provinces, over 60000 in the bank and rising, and the ability to train any & all units. Just waiting for the Julii to come knocking...

CountMRVHS

Well, I have only one thing to say about the Britannic chariots, and that is that they suck, historically. All chariots suck historically because they were not strongly made, and easily dewheeled etc. If they were made strong and powerful (like the Babylonian four-man versions) they were damnedly slow and perfectly useless for shock. Hence it is right that they are that weak. Chariots in RTW have only 1 armour, even general's chariotry, and so their multiple hitpoints are used up pretty quickly. And the thing about the unit is, once the chariots are destroyed, that's it for the riders even though they have plenty more hitpoints left to go. Historically the Britannia chariots were not meant for shock, they were meant to pepper the enemy with arrows from a distance before the riders dismounted to fight as infantry.

Simply put, the chariots of the Britons were actually taxis, to ferry the fighters to the front and away if there was danger. They were never intended to come to grips with a formed-up enemy ready for them (practically no chariot ever was). So it's perfectly reasonable that the chariots fall apart so easily when you send them into battle.

Umm... in my Briton game m/m i dont know why but the gauls never attacked me ... hell the only battles since 270bc (its 240 bc now) has been with rebels; i even have a fully stacked out army waiting for action with 10 units of warbands, 2 woad warriors, 1 druid (starter) 2 units of Warhounds , 1 light chariot and my general oh and 2 units of barbarian merc calvary and 1 slinger unit...

its been 30 years and i havent ever been to war... yet
if your wondering about the lack of chariots i hate them... i like warbands they have lotta men plus only a little less better then swordsmen so i like to use them more then swordsmen

Well, if you have such a nice army, it's about time to use it on Gaul :) You'll trash them. And by the way, Warbands are not better than swordsmen since whenever I try it, I lose much more warbanders in the same situation as I do swordsmen. And it's less of a strain on your population, too.

Those light chariots are absolute gems. Especially in the early fighting, when there are often no opposing archers.

My starting chariots are at 1 and 2 silver chevrons atm, and great for catching routers and pulling opposing (mostly gaul) armies out of position.

Woad warriors seem like a waste of space once you can get swordsmen, and I refuse to use those silly head-hurlers. I heard of someone who modded them to work like a legion - tossing heads for a morale loss and then charging - and that seems so much better.

Once I played as the Brittanians and just backed up into Ireland. Then, once someone attacked me, I unloaded all my gained soldiers and wiped out Europe! :smile:

-ZainDustin

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Originally Posted by ZainDustin

Once I played as the Brittanians ...

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I think Britons sounds better. :laugh4:

~;)

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Originally Posted by Craterus

I think Britons sounds better. :laugh4:

~;)

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People have their own preferences... I really don't care, that's just what I remember remembering.

-ZainDustin

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Originally Posted by ZainDustin

People have their own preferences... I really don't care, that's just what I remember remembering.

-ZainDustin

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Just put Celt or babarien!:wall:

I was just messing.

Sorry if you took offense.

Playing vanilla brit campaign. Good thing my family is fecund-- Brit chariots apparently double as hearses for generals. They drop like flies, even against peasants!

Hmmm. The generals in vanilla have missile bodyguards anyway, right? So just use that capability and don't even think about charging them in.

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Hmmm. The generals in vanilla have missile bodyguards anyway, right? So just use that capability and don't even think about charging them in.

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Unfortunately no: the generals get heavy chariots, not light ones. Chariot's main use is to disrupt enemy formations, not to destroy them. Chariots cause chaos in infantry lines, which your infantry can then exploit (though you should not try this head-on against spearmen or quality heavy infantry). They also seem to work quite well against enemy cavalry. Whatever you do, keep them moving and follow up quickly with another unit to exploit the holes they make in the enemy formation. A moving chariot is deadly, a bogged-down one is dead. If you keep this in mind, you may still get some good use out of your British generals, even though they stay more vulnerable than most.

I agree, but it is just so easy for them to become bogged down. They can crash through a loose formation pretty well, but even the standard peasant gaggle can stop them long enough to let the factioneer come up a cropper. A unit that's been cut up and fallen down to 1-2 lines of troops can get busted open and your follow on can smash them, but whole units will choke the movement off even when hit from the rear. No blades on the wheels, no missile capability, no spears/lances....

Vanilla Eggies can be used as chariot archers reasonably well, and have blades on the wheels to take out routers, but Brit generals can't even kill routers with any speed, the fellows keep bouncing back up. Pretty hard to acquire chevrons, and you end up with a unit that you need to have for morale purposes, but is WAY limited even when compared to other generals who are "too precious to risk in a fight." At least the average Roman bodyguard group can take a hit or two with some hope of disengaging.

This has not been my experience with the Britons at all. I try to have as many as four Heavy Chariot and four Light Chariots per army (with 2 - 3 slingers, 8 odd infantry and a barb cav) and they create absolute havoc among the opposition, they just require more care.

To avoid bogging down I will usually withdraw them within three seconds of impacting the enmy line. I do not give them orders to attack another group, I pull them right back out of the engagement so they make a clean break. All the while the 4 light cahriots are firing en masse into the enemy and the slingers are adding to the pandemonium. After a second or third charge completely disrupts segments of the enemy's line the infantry can go in and finish off the opposition. Pursuit is not as effective as cavalry but 3 or 4 chariots still do a lot of damage to routing opponents,...and the barb cavalry really help out here.

The chariots may take a few casualties on occasion but rarely does one get crippled (but it does happen on occassion) and they are particularly good at routing cavalry and killing the enemy general. Last night I send 40 Brutii units packing in two engagements for the loss of a total 3 chariots from a unit (plus numerous infantry units, of course).

Here is a screenie showing an example of the point of impact of heavy chariots on peasants. When the chariots passed through the other side, only some 5 rebels were dead but the unit was disrupted enough that 7 more died in the next pass some 5 seconds later. By the end of the battle the rebels were routed for the lost of 2 chariots.

https://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f...ddenImpact.png

Not exactly Sarmatians but for the British it is not so bad.

I don't prefer the heavy chariot slam as a tactic, but it works well enough. Casualties are high on very hard settings, but they tear up the bad guys. Its the GENERAL's heavy chariot that malfs.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Its the GENERAL's heavy chariot that malfs.

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Good evening, Seamus.

I am not so sure. The series of attached screenies show my preferences for massed chariots. In the battle shown, three British armies with a total of 6 generals attack a Roman (Brutii) legion in Tribus Iazyges. I would have liked to have actual Heavy Chariots but the few units in the army are either rebuilding, en route to the front or further south in Greece. I had about 1600 Britons in 3 armies facing a mixed legion of some 550 odd pre and post Marion cohorts.

Plate 1 shows the army I chose to command, it possesses 3 Generals and 2 Light Chariots (missile) and the only sarmatians I can get my hands on (plus infantry, of course):

https://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f...Offensive1.png

Plate 2 shows the charge and destruction of a Roman Cavalry unit by the generals heavy chariots, without loss. My army has swung around the Roman right and is driving them onto the other two armies seen approaching in the background.

https://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f...Offensive2.png

Plate 3 Shows the collapse of the Roman legion as one of my reinforcing armies charges forward with 2 Light Chariots, 1 General's heavy and its infantry. My own heavies have just been given the order to charge into the retreating Romans and my infantry and cavalry will follow immediately afterward.

https://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f...Offensive3.png

Plate 4 shows the result of the battle after the pursuit. I am not surprised that 30 Romans made good their escape (temporarily at least) as the map edge was quite nearby. The AI lost 1 of my generals but at least the unit went down taking out an entire Roman heavy cav unit. Overall, I find the use of massed generals from multiple armies has the effect of scaring the wits out of the Romans and leaving them vulnerable to a charge.

https://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f...Offensive4.png

Finally, Plate 5 shows the strategic situation in central Europe After the battle. The four Briton armies possess 7 of 9 leaders in the area with the other two scouting and hiring mercs as they move about. I am very much of the opinion that with proper care and organization the Generals heavy chariots can be very, very deadly against central and western based cultures (the need to fight the in the east is unnecessary.

https://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f...Offensive5.png

Cheers. :charge:

I'm playing vanilla, and I have read in another thread about their hit-points having been too low by mistake. This might be all the difference.

So I take it that its not possible to make Huge Cities for Brittania?

My first campaign was with the House of Julii which I completed very easily, I am now playing as Brittania and have almost wiped out the Gauls but am a bit dissappointed that even though Londinium is at 15000 population it won't allow me to upgrade it any more. Indeed all the towns I hold are over 6000.

Just wondering if there is anyway of getting further upgrades to Brittanic cities, was gonna try and send a spy into Rome but he died enroute, is there any point in sending another one? Are spys even capable of learning military secrets from other factions?

In Vanilla you have hit your limit.

If you feel daring, you can let the Romans conquer one, grow it through 4 and 5 and then retake it.....

Some mods allow barbarians to tech up to huge city level. Mundus Magnus comes to mind, but IIRC I read that Terrae Expugndae (sp?!) includes Mundus Magnus and a lot of other cool stuff.

:oops: Double post! Sorry!

In vanilla all the barbarians' towns can only be upgraded at the 6000 point and no more, to make them powerful early on, taming the Julii. Once the Julii's advantage comes up they expand like crazy into Barbarian lands.

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Originally Posted by Craterus

I was just messing.

Sorry if you took offense.

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Took me 3 months, but I'm back to say...

It's okay Craterus...

:laugh4:

-ZainDustin

The Germans will be a treacherous sort, so watch your back after Gaul is dead, or at least confined to Spain. Most of the time, those Germans attack me from behind. With a group of midsize armies containing Light chariots, Swordsmen (Chosen preferably), Head Hurdlers, Woad Raiders, Warband and Various Calvary Mercaneries, I just ripped through them like paper. The Romans, of course were different. You should amass large armies of what I stated above, plus dogs, other mercanaries, maybe some druids. Make sure you have a lot, becuase I led five armies onto the boot. One came from the North West, one from the North East, One from the South East (by way of boat) and the biggest one of them all landed right next to the Roma, herself. Using my navies, I cut off the Roman's income. I made sure to attack before the Marius reform so that I may still put extreme hurt to them via Light Chariots, Slingers and Head-Hurdlers. I wiped those Jullii right off of the boot (and the planet) with my blitz from the North, destryed the Brutti's section of Italy (leaving a few useless cities in Greece) and in about three years, after starving most of their soldiers and sabatoging their barracks, walls, et all, I sacked the eternal city. The key to Briton is to have lots of resources, or conquer a lot of places, because you must manage you money.

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Originally Posted by Pontifex Rex

This has not been my experience with the Britons at all. I try to have as many as four Heavy Chariot and four Light Chariots per army (with 2 - 3 slingers, 8 odd infantry and a barb cav) and they create absolute havoc among the opposition, they just require more care.

To avoid bogging down I will usually withdraw them within three seconds of impacting the enmy line. I do not give them orders to attack another group, I pull them right back out of the engagement so they make a clean break. All the while the 4 light cahriots are firing en masse into the enemy and the slingers are adding to the pandemonium. After a second or third charge completely disrupts segments of the enemy's line the infantry can go in and finish off the opposition. Pursuit is not as effective as cavalry but 3 or 4 chariots still do a lot of damage to routing opponents,...and the barb cavalry really help out here.

The chariots may take a few casualties on occasion but rarely does one get crippled (but it does happen on occassion) and they are particularly good at routing cavalry and killing the enemy general. Last night I send 40 Brutii units packing in two engagements for the loss of a total 3 chariots from a unit (plus numerous infantry units, of course).

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lol...read my thread in the entrance hall. I'm not having any problems using my chariots either. :laugh4:

How anyone got the idea that the chariots are "useless" or "immobile" simply baffles me.

After 2 years of playing, I'm thinking now that it's possible for the Brit Heavy/Light chariots to become my favorite unit in the game. I've never had the kind of success with other units I have with these...never, in any total war game.

I'm currently building up a giant army of Heavy/Light chariots with a nice WoadWarrior/Swordsmen/Warband infantry base. I plan on eventually (timing is everything...complicated story as with all campaigns, like I said read my thread) blitzkrieging all of Europe with these giant chariot armies. Just a carbon copy of what good ol' Adolf did with the Panzers.

disclaimer: this strategy is not in any way shape or form an endorsement of the Nazi party.

well...i never could get off that accursed island you start on, those rebels kicked my :furious3: .

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Originally Posted by Praetor Julius

well...i never could get off that accursed island you start on, those rebels kicked my :furious3: .

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I do recall losing a lot of chariot generals to rebels on that contentious island.:laugh4:

Trick was running the economy lean enough while still having an army good enough to play "whack-a-mole" with the rebels. Involved quite a lot of micro-managed sorties from Samarobriva while I slowly knit together the 4 island provinces -- and Ireland took quite some time to get to.

I played Brittania on Hard/Hard and found that keeping my mainland city was very hard v. the Gauls and Germans. They both continually insisted on war despite my diplomatic efforts.

To counter this I retreated to the British Isles and then conquered Ireland. Then I set up two major armies with two fleets. The Gauls and Germans don't attempt to control the seas around the British Isles so you'll have free reign of the seaways. With that I would send my fleets up and down the Gaulic and German coasts, raiding any city that was poorly defended. As Gaul and the Germans begin getting into wars with Rome this becomes much easier.

Once a city was conquered I would enslave the populace to send them back to the British Isles to beef up my tax base and increase city size. The sooner you can get to chosen swordsmen the better, and every person in the population helps. Then I would wreck/sell all the buildings and retreat back to my navy. Sail off to another city and repeat, the larger Gaul/German armies who are travelling by land won't be able to keep up with your raids. Once you've done enough damage to their economies they'll be unable to raise large armies. You on the other hand will be rich from pillaging. Then I moved in and began to take mainland settlements.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mookus

I played Brittania on Hard/Hard and found that keeping my mainland city was very hard v. the Gauls and Germans. They both continually insisted on war despite my diplomatic efforts.

To counter this I retreated to the British Isles and then conquered Ireland. Then I set up two major armies with two fleets. The Gauls and Germans don't attempt to control the seas around the British Isles so you'll have free reign of the seaways. With that I would send my fleets up and down the Gaulic and German coasts, raiding any city that was poorly defended. As Gaul and the Germans begin getting into wars with Rome this becomes much easier.

Once a city was conquered I would enslave the populace to send them back to the British Isles to beef up my tax base and increase city size. The sooner you can get to chosen swordsmen the better, and every person in the population helps. Then I would wreck/sell all the buildings and retreat back to my navy. Sail off to another city and repeat, the larger Gaul/German armies who are travelling by land won't be able to keep up with your raids. Once you've done enough damage to their economies they'll be unable to raise large armies. You on the other hand will be rich from pillaging. Then I moved in and began to take mainland settlements.

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I've thought of trying this strategy, but there is one down side.

Your constant diminshment of Germany and Gaul is likely to create a lot of success for the Julians, who you will then have to face off with to get anywhere. That's a lot of Romans -- probably post-Marius -- with no long range archers to counter their arc-aux units. Tough fight.

If you can't outgun them, outrun them. Archer Auxiliaries are good troops, but they can't carry a battle all by themselves. I've never seen the Romans bring many archers, they tend to be very melee infantry heavy. But if they do bring archers, concentrate on bringing more melee troops, preferably cavalry (or, in the case of Britons, chariots). You might lose some troops against the Arc-Aux, but after all is said and done, chariots are a decisive weapon, while all kinds of missile troops are more the "nice to have" support kind of thing. Besides, isn't facing powerful Romans the point of playing a barbarian game?

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Originally Posted by Empirate

Besides, isn't facing powerful Romans the point of playing a barbarian game?

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So true. I just started playing the game (skipped the roman campaign altogether and began immediately with Britain as that was my favorite Medieval TW faction). The first time I met Rome on the field I was nervous prior to the battle, and my heart absolutely sank to my feet once I entered the battlemap and saw them, an entire stack, in their ordered rows before my uncouth barbarian horde.

I littered the field with Romans that day. I think I lost 60 men compared to their 900+.

Their Aux-Archers fell to my Light Charriots. As Rome was defending (I was sallying from a besieged fort), they awaited my attack. I drew their archers out with my charriots, who ran circles in front of them, dodging arrows, while pelting with a barrage of my own. The archers fell back and my two units of light charriots turned to weakening a weaker force in their center. When my troops advanced, I was able to flank certain positions in their front line. After a brief skirmish, the Romans broke and ran; my light and heavy charriots kept them running, those who survived.

Everytime I've faced them since then, I've used my charriots to weaken their missiles, and it hasn't failed.

I've figured out the Romans. Only things I'm worried about now are elephants and the cavalry-based armies of the east.

Concerning cavalry-heavy AI armies: The only ones I've ever really seen were, strange to say, Macedonians. Full stacks of Light Lancers and Companions. The "horse archer factions" rely on their few kinds of infantry a lot. I've seen Pontus and Armenia fielding stack upon stack of Eastern Infantry and whatnot, only occasionally supported by three or four horse archers. Same goes for Parthia. The Scythians seem to love Axemen, but they'll also field a lot of horse archers alright.
The only thing I ever had to worry about with these factions is the super-heavy Cataphracts or Cataphract archers. But these will come in small numbers, so never fear.

Elephants are a similar matter: I've never seen the AI field a lot of them. Fire arrows and swamping with massive numbers work like a charm to set them into panic mode. After that, just keep out of their way if you can. Still, a nuisance, I must admit. Try luring them with light chariots.

To be honest, my beloved rush strategy that I employ with all factions I'm playing whenever possible may make me a bit biased on these topics. I've yet to play a campaign that takes a hundred years...

ive never fought britannia or played them, do they have archers at all? i love using archers so i wouldnt play them if i couldnt use them. also, i dont know why but i cant post a new topic so while im asking about archers, what factions can make them? i know roman factions, greece, egypt and macedon i think. ive never seen macedon use archers but all other factions ive played ive never seen any form of archers and ive played 3 campaigns where i conquered even more than 50 provinces.

briton doesnt have archers, and macedon doesnt either if i remember correctly. scythia does, and i think dacia and thrace do too. gaul do, im pretty sure germans do, egypt does, numidia do, armenia do, pontus do, parthia do.

ahhh ok thank you, now i just have to decide germania or gaul i geuss.

np. but remember, im not sure if germania does, and gauls takes 2 turns to train but is one of the best archers in the game.

Britain, in Vanilla, does have chariot archers. They are standard ranged, need a larg edeployment aream and only have 36 shooters (unless you superload) but their hitting power is in the Cretan clas, so they hit hard -- especially against the lighter armored opponents of the early game. Because they fire from up on chariots, they actually cause less fratricides than a foot archer unit when positioned behind the battle line.

Chariot archers can also be used very much like horse archers. Again, fewer shooters (36 v 54) but they hit at 10 v 7 so the power index is pretty close.

Guys - this may seem like rather a novice question (and is almost certainly the wrong place to ask it), but can someone please explain to me the concept of hit points? I note that British Chariots get 3, Spartans get 2 and Elephants get ridiculous amounts, but how do they actually function? I understand that it makes the unit, in some way, more difficult to kill, but given that my chariots get turned into a nasty paté of sawdust and Shergar if made to fight in a static defensive position, how do hit points function as distinct from attack and defence points? They don't seem to be toughening my brave blue charioteers up at all...

Any advice on this point would be gratefully received.

i think it has to do with the defense of the unit. For example, if a unit has 20 defense and 2 life points, it is the equivalent of 2. I am not sure of this, but it is what i heard on another board. You would probably want a second opinion or someone to verify.

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Originally Posted by Calgacus

Guys - this may seem like rather a novice question (and is almost certainly the wrong place to ask it), but can someone please explain to me the concept of hit points? I note that British Chariots get 3, Spartans get 2 and Elephants get ridiculous amounts, but how do they actually function? I understand that it makes the unit, in some way, more difficult to kill, but given that my chariots get turned into a nasty paté of sawdust and Shergar if made to fight in a static defensive position, how do hit points function as distinct from attack and defence points? They don't seem to be toughening my brave blue charioteers up at all...

Any advice on this point would be gratefully received.

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Advice the first: literally the worst possible thing you can do with chariots is fight while static. As you've seen, they die quickly and horribly. Keep them moving at all times while they're fighting (it can be helpful to pull them out and rest a bit in long battles).

I don't know the precise details of the combat mechanics, but conceptually it seems pretty clear. Defense is a measure of how likely a unit is to avoid a hit, and this depends on facing and type of attack (is the shield in arc; I believe defense skill is ignored and shield is doubled vs. missile attacks; possibly other details like that). Hit points (HP) are how many hits a unit can take before dying. If your generic infantryman gets hit, he drops; Spartans die on the second hit; elephants take a lot of punishment before going down. Chariots are interesting in that they have 3 HP but almost no defense. The gameplay logic of the 3 HP seems to be surviving a volley or two of arrows or javelins on their initial charge. After that, movement plus the "special attack" of knocking people down a lot serves to protect them somewhat. If chariots get bogged down in a mass of enemy troops, they die. Don't let that happen if they're your chariots.

Note also that the reason generals are typically the most powerful units (often by a wide margin) on the battlefield is that they have 2 HP, and the attack and defense are decent at worst, often outstanding.

Thanks for the explanations guys; it's always useful to understand a bit more about the game's mechanisms. I think on the whole I'll just charge through units with chariots, rather than risk getting them bogged down, with my charioteers standing in what are essentially large wooden buckets, being prodded to death by spearmen. I generally only use light chariots anyway, so (unless the battle is going shockingly pear-shaped) they won't be in a melee until they run down routing units at the end.