Diplomacy - An Initial Guide

in terms of a window you have for timed things, like, say "accept or we will attack" or "will provide military assistance against", do you have any clue of what kind of window do you have for fulfilling your diplomatic obligation? (Obviously sooner is better, do you have any clue where people begin to not believe you?) And also, for "provide military assissance" does that mean you have to initate an attack, or can you provide assissance if the opposing faction attacks you. Does sieging a city (initating, capturing, or simply maintaining a siege) count?

Also, do you have any clue in how canceling treaties affects your diplomatic relations worldwide? (obviously again it hurts your relations with the faction, but I think there might possibly be some minor world-wide negatives).

oh, juts a note (since I can't edit my own thread) when I say capture, I mean through starvation, and not through military action (as that would fulfill your obligation). Also, does the computer appear to measure not only that you provided help, but how much?

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Originally Posted by Delwack

in terms of a window you have for timed things, like, say "accept or we will attack" or "will provide military assistance against", do you have any clue of what kind of window do you have for fulfilling your diplomatic obligation?

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Good question, this is definitely open for research. I know I've gone nine turns (4 1/2 years) and an attack still fulfilled "provide military assistance" agreement. However, I haven't taken it any farther than that to see what the absolute outer limit is.

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Originally Posted by Delwack

..for "provide military assissance" does that mean you have to initate an attack, or...

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This means you need to participate in a conflict with the faction specified in the proposal. So, if you propose to the Dacians that you'll provide military assistance against the Scythians, then any battle with the Scythians will do - whether you initiate it or not, whether it's a single turn of seige or a pitched battle. You don't need to take a city to fulfill your military assistance obligation.

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Originally Posted by Delwack

Also, do you have any clue in how canceling treaties affects your diplomatic relations worldwide?

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I don't have data on this, but it seems that there's a "believeability" factor that you maintain with each faction you deal with. And, the game acts like if you break a treaty with one faction, that faction's allies are less likely to make diplomatic deals with you. However, this is another area that needs to be investigated.

i was looking in some maps and noticed that every factions has an reliebility number and an dread number

Where did you find this, Emperor?

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Originally Posted by Tamur

I know I've gone nine turns (4 1/2 years) and an attack still fulfilled "provide military assistance" agreement.

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Hmmmm. I wonder whether an attack in the SAME TURN, but after the diplomacy, meets the requirement. I'm starting to think it doesn't -- that only an attack on subsequent turns will meet it.

One of my favorite diplomacy things has been siphoning money off the other Roman factions by offering to attack their enemies in return for cash. I'm religious about following up -- sometimes immediately. But now, suddenly, I've been met with the "we cannot trust that your troops will ever show up" message, and the only reason I can think of is that I attacked on the same turn I made the deal, but not later turns.

Anyone else run into this? Thoughts?

:balloon2: You know, dose anyone have any post patch 1.2 feedback on this?
Now the other factions give you map info with the trade rights and bribes are so expensive that they seem very rare.

I did have one of the Roman factions bribe one of my cities in this campaign but even a few peasants are too expensive for me these days. I think basic bribery costs must be 10x unit value. It certainly has made diplomats of less importance than before IMO. Some of the things they changed were nice but much of it I liked better before. I am very tempted to reinstall the old game at this point, bugs & all….
~:confused:

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Originally Posted by Droplede

Hmmmm. I wonder whether an attack in the SAME TURN, but after the diplomacy, meets the requirement. I'm starting to think it doesn't -- that only an attack on subsequent turns will meet it.

One of my favorite diplomacy things has been siphoning money off the other Roman factions by offering to attack their enemies in return for cash. I'm religious about following up -- sometimes immediately. But now, suddenly, I've been met with the "we cannot trust that your troops will ever show up" message, and the only reason I can think of is that I attacked on the same turn I made the deal, but not later turns.

Anyone else run into this? Thoughts?

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I'm not sure if it counts to attack one's enemies on the same turn after offering to do this diplomatically, but I've done it several times. The way to check would be to have the diplomat make the deal :deal: , attack the mutual enemy, and then check back with that diplomat. On the diplomacy screen, you'll see "Assistance provided against rebels" (or whoever) until you have fulfilled your obligations. Then that message won't appear on the diplomacy screen.



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hi Fisherking & all,

I'm largely AFK for the first half of this year, unfortunately!, due to a heavy load of thesis work, full-time job, and family. The soonest I can get to a full revision of (or even some basic research for) the diplomacy guide 1.2 will be late spring. I wish I could help more.

Tamur

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Originally Posted by Malrubius

I'm not sure if it counts to attack one's enemies on the same turn after offering to do this diplomatically, but I've done it several times. The way to check would be to have the diplomat make the deal :deal: , attack the mutual enemy, and then check back with that diplomat. On the diplomacy screen, you'll see "Assistance provided against rebels" (or whoever) until you have fulfilled your obligations. Then that message won't appear on the diplomacy screen.
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Thanks, Mal. I hadn't realized that tag was conditional. That will help test it for sure.

hi, excellent guide. I've two questions

1.- I'm playing with the julii. I'm traying to make alliances with the numidians, the thracians and the scythians... (i've already have trade rights and anyone of them are in war with the others roman factions)
The numidians reject my offers (i will continue later), but with the other two I don't have the choice to offer an alliance, because in the diplomatic window I don't have this option (in all cases I'm negotiating with citys and not with foreign diplomats). What's the matter?

2.- The guide tells that you can bribe anyone, but I'm trying to bribe a roman army, guided by a captain, and I don't have the choice to do that in the diplomatic window. I've installed Patch 1.2 (It's that a change of the patch?)

Thanks a lot.

Great guide ~:cheers:

I personally have two separate diplomacys.First one is for factions near me,with them i use the old "enemy of my enemy must be my friend"diplomacy.
The other thing i do is large scale blackmail.I have lone ships with diplomats aboard.Sailing all around the seas.When i see some faction targeted by multiple enemies,i simply blockade one or more of their ports and demand money for ceacefire.
It has paid of wery well.Its not very honourable,but im playing as roman julii faction and i think it feels to me very "Roman"thing to do. ~D

Hi all,

After a long, long time away due to RL, I've finally given up on real life and decided that Total War is much better. I'm starting the LONG overdue process of updating the diplomacy guide. It looks like I have a lot to catch up on!

Thanks to everyone who have contributed to this thread and who have sent emails. I'm setting a soft deadline of three weeks for the update to be completed.

Cheers,
Tamur

Very nice guide indeed ~:)
A very good insight into the world of diplomacy :book:

Yeah, good info here. I'm going to try more diplomacy once I finish my current campaign.

Just put up the initial desperately needed updates to the diplomacy guide.

If you've got the guide already, don't bother looking at the new version quite yet. Only the most basic of rewrites has happened -- bribes and protectorates mostly.

There are some major changes in the works as I catch up on the last six months of board posts. Eventually I'll see them all, but if someone knows of particularly helpful or useful posts on diplomacy written since 1.2 came out, it would be a big help if you could post them up here.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Tamur

(14 July 2005 edit) This diplomacy guide has had its first update in quite a long time. Not much, but the Bribe and Protectorate sections have been rewritten to bring them into sync with 1.2. I will be continuing to revise, trim and add to the guide on an ongoing basis.

I remain interested in getting feedback on (or feedback INTO, more precisely) the Diplomatic Strategies section. A lot has changed with the 1.2 patch in diplomacy, so this section will need to be trimmed a bit as time progresses. If you have anything to contribute, please do feel free to contact me either via my email which is in the document itself, or via PM here on the boards.

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I think that reference to Foreign Tastes diplomat trait need to be removed from the guide, sice that trait can't really be gained in the game (nor popular standing makes sense for a diplomat).

Thanks player1... I'd never seen that one show up in any of my games, and had wondered if it were valid. I just yanked this, will put that fix up in the next update.

BTW, just discovered your bugpatch, quality work there!

What about 1.3 patch changes? Anyone seen a thread that focuses on Diplomacy changes with 1.3?

Just doing a little house cleaning

My experiences with bribery suggest that when bribing a stack, any family member, as well as any units that you would be able to build at any point in your technology tree, come over to your faction. All other units disband.

If you are playing a roman faction, you can bribe the armies and family members of the other factions before the civil war with no apparent penalty. This action is particularly useful when one of the other factions has a large army about to beseige an enemy city. Simply bribe the army and then besiege the city with what are now "your" forces.

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Originally Posted by player1

I think that reference to Foreign Tastes diplomat trait need to be removed from the guide, sice that trait can't really be gained in the game (nor popular standing makes sense for a diplomat).

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I've read the guide. Pretty useful, thanks Tamur. There's one problem however, when you talk about this trait ("Foreign Tastes") you state the following "...but they appear to be non-existent on the game itself..." that's not exactly true, if what you mean is that no character, wheter it's from your faction or another, can get this trait, certainly none of my diplomats got it, because I'm the worst diplomat ever, but I saw, in "Barbarian Invasion" with Vanilla 1.6 a diplomat from the "Western Empire Rebels" that had this trait. If I can I'll post a pic here.

very intresting facts:laugh4:

Hello there, Darlings:
I played Greek, used to have an alliance with Gaul and Rome, among other factions. Then Rome was defeated by the Britons & Gaul was reduced to only one province (someplace on the shore of the English Channel) while I was busy fighting Carthage and the Ptolemies. Then, when I investigated my DIPLOMACY tab, I found out Gaul was no longer my ally, merely neutral. Maybe I was thinking of something else when the diplomatic notice flashed onscreen. Now I was offering Gaul to be my protectorate or my ally (whichever would sound delicious to AI), but I was repeatedly refused. I had about 3 or 4 different diplomats of mine try this, but the Gauls won't accept my offer. My one diplomat was even slapped the trait TACTLESS for his (her?) efforts. Here comes along the Spanish (Iberians) who are sniffing at the Gauls. They might gobble up the last Gallic town and I don't want to preempt the Spanish move by attacking that last town. What's wrong with diplomacy? Or what diplomatic thing did I do wrong (or did not do)?
Meiaow to y'all.

It's actually not that hard to make other factions give up a region, I payed 10000 denarii for Thebes and the Egyptians accepted. Although the AI sometimes turns down big offers that would benefit their forces, I come to think it's usually the "loyal barbarians" who do not accept...

Can you make a list of the best diplomats starting out in the Game?

Ex.Isenbard of the burgundii,Thero of the Numidians

Why? And anyway, the guide is a few years old...

This guide should probably be archived on a dusty shelf somewhere, but, inexplicably, it continues to be downloaded about fifteen times a week. I edited the first post to reflect the fact that I haven't maintained it for nearly three years.

So, buyer beware!

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Originally Posted by Viriato

hi, excellent guide. I've two questions

1.- I'm playing with the julii. I'm traying to make alliances with the numidians, the thracians and the scythians... (i've already have trade rights and anyone of them are in war with the others roman factions)
The numidians reject my offers (i will continue later), but with the other two I don't have the choice to offer an alliance, because in the diplomatic window I don't have this option (in all cases I'm negotiating with citys and not with foreign diplomats). What's the matter?

2.- The guide tells that you can bribe anyone, but I'm trying to bribe a roman army, guided by a captain, and I don't have the choice to do that in the diplomatic window. I've installed Patch 1.2 (It's that a change of the patch?)

Thanks a lot.

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1. Sometimes you cant offer an alliance to factions allied to those you are at war with (this inconsistent feature is also in Medieval 2). It also seems like alliances with factions that you have wiped out count towards this condition (definitely a bug if true).

2. I dont think you can bribe Romans before the civil war started as you are in a superalliance with the senate.

An interesting observation when buying settlements is that the AI seems to want less for 1+1 settlements than for 2 in one go. As the Brutii I had a treasure of some 80k and decided to buy Nicomedia and Ancyra from Pontus. I offer 60k for the bundle and they suggest that I pay 40k for 8 turns. But when I offer first 20k for Ancyra and then 30k for Nicomedia they accept...

Please reupload your guide. The page isn't there any more. Would love to read it.

i'm having trouble just for them to even accept anything.
whenever i try and offer a ceasefire or even an accept or we will attack, they just do that "bandying empty words is pointless" move.

PISSES ME OFFF!!!! UGH! HELP!:help:

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Originally Posted by Conzettia The Vanquisher

i'm having trouble just for them to even accept anything.
whenever i try and offer a ceasefire or even an accept or we will attack, they just do that "bandying empty words is pointless" move.

PISSES ME OFFF!!!! UGH! HELP!:help:

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I'm having the same problem myself, although I personally take it as another incentive to attack and destroy all other factions :skull:
Seriously though, what version are you playing in? It would appear that diplomacy has been tweaked to be much, much harder in later patches (1.3-1.5) with the AI showing little to no interest in deals of any kind. Although I have yet to play a campaign for long in these patches so I'm not sure how the diplomats stats and your own military power affects the outcome of negotiations in the long run...

If you do like to solve things peacefully I recommend version 1.0, from what I remember all armies were possible to bribe (except faction leaders and heirs) and the other factions paid handsomely for everything from map information to alliances. Long campaigns with those possibilities do in fact get rather boring though!

Kind regards

I play the 1.5 patch and it seems that your statement would make sense. I originally started playing the 1.0 when i was first introduced to RTW but then got the patch. while playing the 1.0 it did seem alot easier for you to negotiate with diplomats, while in 1.5 almost everything you try and negotiate gets declined (except for bribes). the diplomatic influence of your character has some effect, because i have noticed through playing the full campaign that low-land controlling factions will be quick to jump on negotiations, while larger factions think that they are superior for some reason. (which i also give as an incentive to conquer them). but your sheer military power doesn't really have too much effect, atleast not that i have noticed.

Thank you for answering my question Bellicin.

Glad to be of assistance and thanks for your input on the negotiations with other factions of different size! One thing that hit me the other day is that the difficultylevel might affect diplomacy as well, although I have seen no real proof of it. After switching to patch 1.5 I've mostly been playing at the "Very hard" or "Hard" setting on the campaign map, which I suppose could also affect diplomatic negotiations.

Kind regards

I see all of these posts about the diplomacy guide but I cannot find the diplomacy guide. Can anyone help??

The link is in the OP .. but it does not work: File not found.

hi all,

Someone just emailed me today about this, alerting me to the fact that the link was dead. I think it must have been killed off a while back when I was doing some site updates and mistakenly wiped out that entire directory.

The link in the OP on this thread has been restored to its former (in-)glorious state, so anyone interested should be able to find it.

Cheers,
Tamur

:bow:

Thanks for renewing it Tamur. I did search for this a few days ago and now I can actually read it.

Cheers.

OP link is broken again.

Link restored: Tamur sent me the latest copy and I've attached it to the OP.

therother, are you still active??? Wow. Good to see :)

Thought this thread might be complemented with a very comprehensive guide that was put together by a FATW fan with aid from a member of the dev team, which focuses on lesser-known features...

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...iplomacy-Guide

Yup, I'm still haunting these hallowed halls, making sure all the lights stay on.

Thanks for the link, looks interesting.

I know this thread is old, but I decided to comment for those who aren't still sure about this, or those who don't bother reading the older posts. I have noticed the comments about bribes, and what happens to the armies. The export_descr_unit file tells what units are options for which factions. If the individual unit is listed as belonging to your faction, you can get that unit, even if it is mercenary. Case in point, Macedon and Illyrian Mercenaries. If Illyrian mercs are in an army Macedon bribes, Macedon will get those mercs. This is based on my experience, and my understanding of the export_descr_unit file.
If you can train the unit, you get it as well, such as has been mentioned bribing Militia Hoplites. Also, I believe you can go into custom battle to see what mercs you can give your army, and it will correspond to what you can keep on a bribe. Not 100% sure on that, but about 99.5% sure. I know I did bribe and keep rebel Hastati after the Marius changes.
If somebody knows if I am wrong about something, please correct me, as this is only based on observation and my interpretation of a file.