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The Dacian military is very good, early on you get falxmen and archers plus babarian cav, later on you get chosen swordsmen, chosen archers, and noble cav, so really they have a strong balanced military, btw chosen swordsmen are some of the most underestimated units in rtw, they are like falxmen with armor and shields.
Well, the only thing that Dacians lack is a good economy, luckily Greece is nearby:beam:.
Dacia might be the faction for a unified front against the might of Rome. Germans are easy prey early on, out manoever them pikes like Chuckle said out in the field. Thrace to secure trade, easy rebel land nearby to earn a bit of an income... then the whole northern land is your oyster.
Well I managed to have some success with Dacia by rushing Greece early on and abandoning my home territories early. The problem is when I got into "Phase II' if you will, against the Bruti, a contest that lasted many years and though I managed to reduce them down to 3 provinces I'm nearing 200 BC and I've got less than 20 regions to my name. I'd say in terms of survivability I've done well, I just need to discover how to actually expand my empire.
Chosen Swordsmen are good especially heavily upgraded and I've found I can compete with Rome when I have defensive qualities working in my favor. At this point I'm just trying to avoid the Julii as they'd probably steamroll me at this point, I even gave Pontus Iuvavum so I'd be sure not to share a border with Caesar's faction. I certainly can see how quickly the barbarian factions limitations on city advancement can be a problem. In alot of my occupied cities I have to deal with huge culture penalties as the places I occupy are often more advanced than my maximum level of technology, one reason why I've found exterminating the population the only viable option.
There is a certain charm however to the Dacian horde conquering Greece and Cyprus from much more advanced and ancient civilizations. Interesting stuff at any rate.
I reccomend you need a decisive blow against the Romans, to put yourself centerstage. IMO, you should polish off the rest of the Brutii with a spear point attack with concentrated forces. Secure the ankle of Italy, and then attack the Scipii on Sicily or Capua.
However, this might not be possible if 1)You autoresolve your battles OR 2)Lacking decisive battlefield skills.
I have enough skills to defeat the romans defensively, but against Legionary Cavalry, Legionary and Praetorian Cohorts and Urban Cohorts life can be very difficult. The Scipiones and Bruti are relatively weak so it might be possible for me to take them out relatively quickly, on the other hand the Julii can field very powerful armies and even fully upgraded chosen swordsmen have their troubles with late-era upgraded Marian troops.
At this point I'm thinking of recovering my homelands in Dacia, and then fitting out a navy and a few stacks to steamroll sicily, which I could then use a base to remove the Bruti from Bruttium and Apulia. This could also be a springboard to Carthage. In any event I'll have to deal with the Romans at some point and better to get rid of the weak ones first. I'm pleased with my progress I just need to finish things up.
Well my Dacian campaign has devolved into a kind of boring, overly dramatic affair. Defeating and Fighting the Romans in the field is next to impossible. My fully upgraded armies of Chosen Swordsmen and Barbarian Noble Cavalry melt away against the onslaught of the Julii. Even in city defenses I stand to lose 40-60% of the my men fighting against wave after wave of legionary, urban and praetorian cohorts.
I'm still making progress, slowly. I took Southern Italy and Sicily, then Carthage and I'm in the process of sieging Cirta. These cities were lightly defended however and I relied on overwhelming numbers and other distractions to gain the advantage. Another problem I'm dealing with is my cities are in a constant near state of revolt. Most have a 45% culture penalty on top of distance from capital and huge squalor issues. Even with low taxes and full stack garrisons they hover around 70-75% happiness. And as I mentioned on TWC I shiver to think what kind of super-upgraded uber-armies would appear if any of my Roman possessions were to revolt.
The fact is I'm well dug in and defended but I can't really expand, I can't spare men for my field army and my revenue, despite my holdings in Greece is simply not good enough to support me. My dominions are also spread out over a large area and by bodies of water, this necessities large naval investments, including the establishment of overwhelming numeric superiority just to keep one port in contact with another. Certainly I've proven to myself that surviving as Dacia and establishing a Dacian Empire is entirely doable, the long haul is however less certain.
At this point I don't know what my next move is, or if there is a next move. I'd need at least 4 full stacks with siege equipment to even considering attacking the many stacks around Rome/Capua and for the moment I can't envisage any means of making that happen. It has been a fun campaign though. I've got 25 regions and I'm pleased with my progress at least up to this terminal point. What comes next is anyones guess.
Roman is very hard to take out after being establised and the Marian reforms. That's why I tend to play as a faction that can hinder their progress and posiblily destroy them early on (Carthage, Gaul.....). The Seleucid definetly could stand up to the Romans with an high tier army, The Egyptians, using their unique units maybe. While Parthia with an cavalry reliant army gonna need lots of Cataphracts to defeat the Roman legions, just horse archers isn't enough.
I've been able to neutralize the Romans on more than one occasion with the Greek Cities and Macedon, and one time in the past even as Gaul. It's definitely possible, but with Dacia the problem is, like it was with other factions in RTW 1.0 (for me anyway) city management. With my armies bogged down in ineffectual garrison duty there's not much more for me to do, and even at full blitz it would have been hard to eliminate all three Roman families. Many of my cities are at the point that even with low taxes and full garrisons they're in red-face land and rioting. Not sure what I could do, or could have done to prevent that.
It is at any rate definitely doable to expand and survive as Dacia, the question I have is what to do in the long run, how to survive against the Romans and how to neutralize those massive 45% culture penalties you get when you take over cities that exceed your own limited tech-advancement and have the wrong culture to begin with. Wonder if anyones got any experience here that could shed light on that subject?
To minimize cultural penalty you'll need to break a lot of buildings and probably "lather - rinse - repeat" a few of the cities to make them cash cows.
1. Convert some cities to your way of thinking by changing over all the buildings that you can change to their barb equivalents. Won't overcome not having the government center, but is of some help -- especially if you can reach a majority barb in some of the smaller venues.
2. You can't keep all of your cities as high recruit zones. Pick a few port cities and break all military buildings and social buildings, leaving only the economically lucrative ones. Move out the garrison and let them rebel; exterminate, then quickly repeat. You will now have a very small and easily garrisoned cash-cow city. You won't be able to recruit there for 20+ years, if ever, so don't do this to all of them. Ludicrous behavior in terms of empire building, but the vanilla game loves it.
3. Keep fighting the Romans only at defensive choke points like bridges or towns in which you have nice archer garrisons (buy every Cretan you can for range). Always sally and bait the Romans forward into your archers and towers -- you must attrit them well down or you will keep losing half a garrison in each city assault. Always have a couple units of cavalry ready for these sallies. The AI often positions its troops in front of a gate and then moves to the corner where they started on the strat map. This often gives you a chance to over-run slower movers lagging behind the main force -- onagers for example -- and reduce the threat you face in the subsequent assault.
4. Save costs by reducing your navy greatly. Yes, you will have a port or two out of the network every single turn, but the cost of this loss of trade is less than the cost of a fleet trying to cover everything. All you really need is a transport large enough not to be sunk. Go port to port as much as you can and avoid battle. Against a human opponent this would be suicide -- you'd have EVERY port blockaded. The AI is not so methodical.
5. Take Rhodes for the Colussus bonus --- you need every drachmae.
hey guys , i would like to share some of my commends on dacia .
i have play most of the factions and get victories before.
in my experience, dacia is a very powerful contury .
there is a principle indicated my thought: A series victory(valuable victory) can solve every problem.
so, not matter what faction i use, attack, attack city,attack rich city! there is ppl,$$ and(women).
when the city becomes mine, my enemy will be starved to death.
it is a strategy game, city is the strength of army.
So, i never intend to attack enemy's main force, i set camp to block the road, to choose some way to strike enemy's city.
when i play as dacia, i have never fight will tharce main force, i capture all tharce cities by 10~12 army(i can only afford this), and tharce main force became rebel army.
my suggest to dacia players
First:get the money from tharce and sythia , and then set camp to block the road where the enemy reinforcement will come. then attack the city of tharce near you, take it and attack sythia capital
.Sythia will be greatly weaken by lose capital . don't afraid to increase your enemies ,just strike then hardly and block all the roads . Remember! a weak enemy is much safe than a strong friend!
keep attack , destroy thrace.
Second,it is time to fight macedon , you will find macedon has triple or more armed force than you have.
the truth is, you may have 6 cities(poor,little ppl), and little army. and your enemy has 5~6 rich cities and both advantage in number and quality armed force.
so,avoid all enemy as possible. use camp to limit enemy's motion .
wait and seek chance to strike city, do this by your brain, to destroy enemy army is totally not necessary.
i assume you have capture the whole greece expect burtii's territory .
Third, to be continue.
i would like to say something irrelevant .when i read some replies above say pathia is not so good.
i think the most powerful country is Pathia.
With few reasons for me to make this conclusion.
i must say i play pathia quiet late( i have been playing RTW for 3 years, but play as pathia for
a month only, i was though pathia is a weak country and impossible to conquer any country even eypgy.
And now when i finish the game by used pathia in this month,i change my mind.
Horse Archer is the best unit in game
horse archer of pathia will be the best choice!
full unit of horse archer of an army is unbreakable and able to fight in enemy's territory with not support.
in my experience, i can said, an PA(Persian Horse Archer) can destroy triple of enemy with less than 1/3 self lose.
Why?
it can not be catch.
enemy's cavalry not adv. in number and quality. Before they catch PA, 2/3 is die by arrow fire.
army on foot in the front of PA, just like pigs, the only diff. is amoured or not.
there is not enemy can fight with PA in fair , PA and pathia is too powerful in game, not balance.
Every time i use PA to fight , what i need to do is:
1. Start fight( you even dont need to make any arrange)
2. set all army in one group and crush to the front of enemy(dont worry combat happen ,PA will avoid combat auto)
3. Set game in triple speed and wait for victory(usually less than 1/10 loss, 70% of the 1/10 lose is friendly fire)
easy? that's true.
PA is Fxxking powerful!
Reasons why Parthia isn't the most powerful faction:Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherrex
1. Poor starting position.
2. Worthless infantry.
3. Utterly useless in sieges
4. Over reliance on cavalry (which isn't all bad, but does loses versatility)
5. Can't build paved roads.
Parthia in the right hands can be very powerful, although plain horse archers never worked out for me. I always needed them to be backed up by Cataphracts at least (curious they weren't mentioned in your post), but Persian cavalry is awesome though. :yes:
I agree with Quintus. Their poor starting position costs them alot of money as well as they have a poor selection of infantry which makes them useless in sieges. However their cavalry isn't bad but a bit more of a selection for infantry would be nice.
I just thought this was the Dacia guide... :inquisitive:
It is... But, on the topic of Parthia, they are a fantastic faction yes, but they need to be played in the right hands. Money is always a Problem so I suggest selling Map Information and seriously aggressive expansion. Seiges have always been difficult with Parthia but not any more. Instead of wasting money building seige engines simply wait and maitain the seige until the starve or come out to attack. In the open your Horse archers will destroy them. I did This with Egypt:egypt: and captured all of their places (bar Cyprus) and enslaved them :whip: Trade in slaves is Always good!
Parthia has its good sides and bad sides. It has one of the worst economies in the game especially during the beginning portions. Ironic, how its starting video is talking a lot about money. However, horse archers are quite cheep and are very useful against fighting almost every single unit in the game. However, sieges are extremely difficult with their deplorable infantry. Eastern Infantry and Hillmen just aren't good enough for difficult sieges. (That's why Armenia right know is my favorite faction... :) )
I find this really amusing how we're talking about this in the Dacia guide...
It seems that Dacian warband are tougher than Gaul or Britannia's, my brother thinks so too. Anybody else on that? The Getai are used in the Europa Barbarorum mod, seeming to replace both Dacia and Thrace. By the way, unless you absolutely know what you are doing, don't try to put that mod on the Mac version of RTW.
Dacia is my favorite faction. You can hire immense armies of warriors to smash enemies. You start with a small territory. Your two main targets should be Macedon and Thrace. The first thing you want to do is gather an army at the Thracian border. Leave Macedon alone for now. For good measure, send a spy to the city to ensure your advantage. When you have enough men, attack! Make sure most of your big armies have a general with them, as you may often take heavy casualties and you may need to buy mercs. Continue conquest until Thrace is gone. Macedon may try to ally with you, but strengthening them is not a good idea. As soon as possible after the Thrace campaign, Go for Macedon. A good strategy for combat? BRUTE FORCE! (That's all the barbarians have) After you deal with them, the Greek might get aggressive. Take them out before or after they wage war. Against these guys, disrupt their phalanxes with huge mobs, and take 'em out from behind with cavalry, and against cavalry, you guessed it, BRUTE FORCE. By now you're probably at war with those meddling Brutii Romans. Try to keep a layer of neutral faction between you and them. Now, its freeform. CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, AND CHARGE!!!
One's rate of development, and the direction events happen on the campaign is very much game difficulty dependent. At easier settings, you can indeed hire 'immense armies of warriors' but at the higher difficulty settings, having the denarii available is a huge issue. Any worthwhile mercs aren't available at the start, and those that are (like warbands and barbarian cavalry), you can train yourself.Quote:
You can hire immense armies of warriors to smash enemies---you may need to buy mercs---Macedon may try to ally with you, but strengthening them is not a good idea--- After you deal with them, the Greek might get aggressive. Take them out before or after they wage war. Against these guys, disrupt their phalanxes with huge mobs, and take 'em out from behind with cavalry
In my Dacian campaigns, Macedon, Thrace, and Scythia almost always gang up on me, often times as an alliance. Phalanx is a problem for Dacia in the beginning, even militia hoplites. Warbands have very poor morale, and when unit losses get high while engaging phalanx, they do what most barbarian warbands do....they rout. If Macedonia comes for you early, you have no good answer for their Light Lancer cavalry which they will create in hordes. Barbarian Cavalry can barely hold their own against them 1v1, but in the numbers of them you will see at higher difficulty, "brute force" is wholly inadequate. And until you develop far enough to build Archer Warband barracks, you have no alternative against Scythian horse archers other than to chase them around with barbarian cavalry which can get them cut off behind enemy lines if you're not careful.
Warbands are almost completely ineffective against the Greek City Armored Hoplite or the Macedonian Phalanx Pikemen, and it's suicide to try any kind of frontal assault even en-mass.
While I appreciate your enthusiasm with the game, one has to be careful with suggestions as to how to play this faction or that. As I said earlier, game difficulty settings can drastically change how a particular faction can be played, and what you will face both on the campaign map, and on the battlefield.
:bow:
I've had some good initial luck (M/H campaign/battle difficulty) with a "Scythia-first" approach.
Attacking Thrace or Macedon early on seems to invite the other to attack you. But if you clear out of those guys' way, they may fight each other while you're snapping up the northern Black Sea ports. Time it right, and you can swing an army back to your homelands to see off any invaders.
But from turn 1, I essentially abandoned both settlements, leaving just a 1-unit garrison of Warband in each. All my other troops turned east toward Campus Scythii. Be sure to bring some Archer Warband, as they are the only effective counter to Scythia's HAs. But if you generally ignore Scythian field armies and do your fighting in the towns, where you can corner their light cav with your own cav and infantry, things should work out.
In my campaign, I took Campus Scythii and then immediately marched on to Tanais, ignoring Chersonesos as it was still rebel-held. Taking Tanais reduced Scythia to 1/2 of their starting lands, by which point they were amenable to a ceasefire.
Ceasefires are rather important for Dacia, given the fluid nature of wars in the region. And that's a great reason to play on Medium campaign difficulty: the AI seems much more ... reasonable, diplomatically. Must be something to do with the fact that they're not pumping out troops with all that free money the harder difficulties grant them (and not draining their pop into the bargain).
You can often get cash for ceasefires, in fact. This, plus the need to sell alliances and map info and trade rights with your neighbors in order to stay in the black during those early turns, means you'll want to train several Diplomats and send them around. One goes east, to communicate with Scythia (and Parthia); the other goes to Greece; another will eventually head to Italy.
With Scythia pushed back and pacified, I turned to Chersonesos and built that up a bit, then turned my attention back toward my neglected homelands. Macedon laid siege to Porrolissum with a small force, but because I'd left the south alone, they were already at war with Thrace (my ally), and thus somewhat distracted. I was able to swat them away, and then watch as they collapsed in the face of Greek and Thracian advance.
The next challenge was/is the Brutii, who were nosing around Campus Iazyges. This was problematic, as they were allied with both me and Thrace, my other ally. If the Brutii attacked me first, Thrace would drop their alliance with me, as the AI tends to side with the aggressor in such situations. Thrace was winning the war against Macedon, so I knew if they dropped our alliance I'd be vulnerable, and I didn't have enough troops to deal with the Brutii *and* Thrace.
So I attacked the Brutii preemptively, and predictably enough Thrace stuck with me. That bought me some time, as Thrace worked on eliminating Macedon with gusto, taking Bylazora and Thessalonica, while Greece moved up to push Macedon out of Larissa. (Presumably this left Macedon with that one African province that always rebels to them.)
My army against the Brutii was certainly not high-tech, but thanks to diplomacy and my Black Sea ports I was able to keep my cash around 10,000 in the treasury, which allowed me to keep improving infrastructure. My army consisted of around 4 Warband, a couple of Barbarian warband mercs, 3 Scythian merc HAs, 3 Illyrian mercs, 1 Naked Fanatics, and the general. This was enough to push the Brutii out of my region, cross over to Aquincum and take that from the Brutii, and then drive south to the Adriatic and capture Salona, which I then gifted to the Greek Cities (my ally).
Gifting provinces is another good strategy for times when you don't want to defend some small patch of dirt for the next 20 years, but you don't want to just hand it back to the enemy. But often times the AI is oddly suspicious of your gifts, so you have to sweeten the deal. Give them some cash (I included 3,000 denarii) along with the province, and they'll usually accept. It's often easier if you're giving them land that is already adjacent to their own territories. Oh, and make sure you don't have any of your own troops standing in the province (being in the city is fine), or the AI apparently won't accept.
Giving Salona to the Greeks cut off the Brutii from their province further north, and left them just Apollonia and Thermon on the Greek mainland. I fought a few more battles in the area to ensure the Greeks could hold their new possession, and then turned north to guard my own homelands.
By this time I knew Thrace was running out of things to do, so I began training and moving armies toward them. Again, they nosed into my territory near Campus Scythii, but I attacked first to ensure that the Greeks would stay allied with me (the aggressor). I just took Campus Getae from them, and one more battle should net me Tylis. I'll move toward Bylazora and Byzantium next, but I may leave them with Thessalonica as a buffer between me and Greece.
Finances have become tight - I'm recruiting mercs and native units - but I suspect taking Thracian lands will help right that ship. I'd love to get ceasefire with the Romans, but the Brutii are being stubborn, despite my superiority in the region. Well, once Thrace is dealt with I'll aim to push them back across the Adriatic.
Elsewhere, I've been fortunate. Germany is seemingly distracted by Britannia's invasion of central Gaul and western Germania, so they haven't taken a swipe at me. When Scythia expanded into some rebel territory north of Campus Scythii, I attacked them, took it for myself, and got another ceasefire. But I see that Gaul has been driven out of Italy by the Julii. Maybe I should gift some of the NW Balkans territory to Germany, as a buffer between me & Rome until I can secure Greece?
For the long term, I'm not sure exactly where I'll go. Maybe Germany, actually... slow-growing barbarian towns don't make much cash, but they don't suffer culture penalties or out-of-control unrest, either. And loyalty is a problem, as others have pointed out. I'm already considering making Scythia into my protectorate and gifting them Tanais, as I imagine it'll be impossible to hold eventually.
I've always found that gifting provinces almost always comes back to bite you later. In the shifting sands of war, an ally often becomes an enemy, and that province you gave away now needs to be reconquered. If I've taken control of a province for strategic purposes, but don't really want to defend it, I destroy what infrastructure can be burned, and let the place go rebel. Often times the resulting rebel army that claims the town can hold its own for quite some time giving you the buffer you want, but not the later head ache of having to re-conquer an ally turned enemy.:shrug:
Only Romans are more untrustworthy than the Greek Cities. Can't tell you how many times those SOB's back-stabbed me even when I've saved them from extinction:shame: So I never...ever...form an alliance with them. The top three turncoats in my campaigns have been the Romans...Greek Cities...and the Egyptians.Quote:
Giving Salona to the Greeks cut off the Brutii from their province further north, and left them just Apollonia and Thermon on the Greek mainland. I fought a few more battles in the area to ensure the Greeks could hold their new possession, and then turned north to guard my own homelands.
Perhaps adding money along with a gifted province is not such a good idea?:boxedin:Quote:
Finances have become tight - I'm recruiting mercs and native units
Welcome to the ORG, btw~:wave:
Thanks :) I'm more of a returning member - been probably a decade or so since I've last posted!
In the past year or two I've gotten a much better handle on the diplomatic aspects of this game (mostly via the Fourth Age mod, which I work on). The absolute highlight of that research has been an understanding of how to acquire protectorates, which can provide you with a useful buffer zone as well as a ton of cash (although in vanilla RTW I've noticed protectorates tend to pay you very little, if anything; probably a result of the lower incomes on the vanilla map compared to the mod?). The next most useful tidbit has been an understanding of how to gift provinces to the AI, which can also result in buffer zones.
I should note that these things are mostly useful to players who prefer to keep lots of factions 'alive' throughout the campaign. A player who just wants to 'win' quickly and kill 'em all won't have as much fun with these maneuvers, which take time and often lots of cash to make happen.
In the case of Salona, the calculation there was about balance of power in the region. If I let the province rebel, it's surrounded by the Brutii, and I'm sure they'll get it back soon.
At the time, I wasn't yet at war with Thrace. Thrace held 5 settlements (Campus Getae, Tylis, Byzantium, Bylazora, Thessalonica). Macedon was essentially gone, banished to Africa. Greeks held Larissa and everything south of it. Brutii held Thermon and Apollonia in the region.
Knowing that Thrace is shaping up to be the major power (and would attack me soon), I wanted to use the Greeks as a counter. Propping them up with an extra province and some cash would - hopefully! - allow them to push back against the Brutii, and prevent Thrace from gaining more land in Greece.
Of course, it's somewhat risky, for the reasons you state: it's costly, and it will strengthen a faction that is sure to be an enemy down the road. But things are currently pretty manageable, fortunately. I've managed to reduce Thrace from a 5-province faction down to just 3, with 2 of them (Bylazora, Byzantium) currently under siege. They no longer pose any real threat, so after taking those 2 settlements the time may be right for a ceasefire, which will allow me to turn my full attention to the Romans.
As for the Greeks, they have so far managed to retain Salona, and have attempted (but failed) to take back Thermon. That's fine - a stalemate, with slight momentum on the Greek side, is better IMO than a Brutii conquest of Greece.
Kudos for trying to introduce some kind of sanity via mods to diplomacy, as opposed to the broken system presented in vanilla RTW (and in virtually every game CA has done starting with STW).
I don't completely ignore having allies, (I was actually stunned in one of my Armenian campaigns to have Macedon stick to the alliance from beginning to end~:eek:), and have never liked protectorates because they always seemed to get me into conflicts I didn't want, or wasn't ready for....
I typically take alliances. Many times later on it is somebody about to get wiped out and looking for help, which I could not do in time anyway. I never trust my allies. Now, I guess if you get military access, those alliances are a lot more stable. I fully expect my allies to turn on me. I am surprised in my current Macedon campaign that Scythia has not yet attacked.
Truer words were never spoken. Britannia is bad about it as well. But after all, the Greeks are "those masters of lies, falsehood, and perversity", so I would fully expect them to break an alliance :rolleyes:Quote:
Only Romans are more untrustworthy than the Greek Cities
I do not attack my own allies, except if I am Rome and ready to start the civil war. Or, as happened once, the Scipii attacked the Brutii, and the Senate ordered me to attack both factions, outlawing me if I did not hit the Scipii and investigating me if I did not attack the Brutii. I attacked both.
I never get anybody as a protectorate, either, except I had Egypt become a protectorate once when I was Macedon. Really annoying, I had all the map covered except for Egypt's settlements, they had I think seven left. But they were not violating it, so I left them be. I guess since they were my protectorate, technically I had the entire map conquered, or at least subjugated.