General

Abokasee:
Hoggy already made a wraith unit.


When Demons conquer a city their only choices should be exterminate or enslave. If humans conquer a demon city their only choice should be extermination. This will lead to a difficulty in expansion because suddenly you cant produce elite units on the front lines and you cant retrain the elite units you already have but the other faction can. This will cause large tactical problems as you progress further into enemy territory because powerful units will be worn down and cant be replaced and supply lines will become long and cumbersome.

It would also be perfect if all the buildings in the captured town must be destroyed as well or at least become unusable. This of course will also only happen in human vs demon and not human vs human.

Demons should also be able to recruit human mercenaries as normal. There are always evil men in the world.

So What About The Idea Of "souls" (number 2)

Shifty, the problem with your idea is first of all i think all three options available are hard-coded, secondly that would only be a problem for humans, even so if the high level buildings are there you can still train/re-train high level units. Remember exterminate only removes 3/4 of the pop., not all of it. However i' not sure but i think it might be possible to have it so human buildings can only train human troops, and demon buildings can only train demon troops. However don't quote me on this.

Right. Sorry about the confusion but i meant to put the part about buildings being unusable at the top. Thats why elite units wouldnt be able to be retrained or built (not because of low population).

Also i think that perhaps one or two of the elite and mroe specialized units from each faction should only be able to be built in the home provinces.

Maybe have a building that the demons need for all units (hellish portal, soul thingy, come on people you're creative) and one for humans (monestary, shrine, you get the idea). Give them long buildtimes to represent either the 'blighting' or 'un-blighting' of the city. Just an idea

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimBob

Maybe have a building that the demons need for all units (hellish portal, soul thingy, come on people you're creative) and one for humans (monestary, shrine, you get the idea). Give them long buildtimes to represent either the 'blighting' or 'un-blighting' of the city. Just an idea

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Although that helps speed up late game expansion (as opposed to rebuilding the entire military tech tree) it would severely stunt early game expansion. Having to wait three to four turns to use (and then improve) each new province you capture can seriously delay your ealry game expansion. Although this could be avoided by including this base building in the neighboring rebel provinces from the start. Yes i think if you did that youd get the best of both worlds. Although i think there should still be a larger setback for late game expansion. Perhaps you must a build a "greater hell portal" (demons) in addition to the "hell portal" to get access to the more advanced units.

Again if a city is taken by either side then these base buildings will be destroyed automatically

On a side note the rebel provinces surrounding the demon homeprovinces should be rebel demons.

The real problem with this is R:TW's abstraction of unit construction. I love R:TW and think it's a great game but it is no where close to realistic in terms of strategic decisions (the tactical aspect is closer to realistic but still has a lot of abstraction). Using the R:TW engine i'm pretty sure that the idea of 'blightening' or 'un-blightening' provinces is impossible.

EDIT: What i'm trying to say, is that if you make a mod of a game you have to keep yourself confined within the logical and computational abstractions and limitations imposed in the game. I.E. You can't convert the Dawn of War into Warcraft 3 or even R:TW into M:TW.

I think there should a page with all of the screenshots on it so that people can see everything that youve all done so far. I know i would really like that and i think most everyone else would too. If you dont have the time then drop me a pm with the urls to the screenshots and ill make the thread. Ill even throw in some unit descriptions and speculation and anything else youd want me to.

I like this idea Shifty but I'm not sure about making another screenshot thread. Perhaps we could make it part of the army list thread with cropped screengrabs of individual units next to their description? bit of a big job though there are over 65 units done so far with another 30 or so to go.

I have an old angelfire account i could use . . .

Do you still have the screenshots of your older units?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shifty157

I just had an interesting idea hoggy. Have the 'peasant' unit for each faction take 0 turns to build. That way you can train as many peasants as you want in just 1 turn. This would make for interesting tacticle desicion. Whats more people might actually consider training them. Just for the simple fact that you could essentially mobilize the entire population of a city in 1 turn...

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But remember that the enemy would do the same, making it a large peasant versus peasant war.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2.../fortress2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...ecreation2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...TW/temple2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...TW/grotto2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...W/baekche2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...un_palace2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...TW/throne2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...cent_army2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...TW/parade2.jpg

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2...TW/weapons.jpg

http://hall.ksf.or.kr/presenter/choi...imuseon_26.jpg

The exorcist could raise your army's morale against demons.

https://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y2.../exorcist2.jpg

GiantMonkeyman posted this, hope you don't mind I've moved it to the General thread. I'm trying to keep this forum reasonably trim so it's easy for everyone to find stuff.:

will there be any region specific units? for example in r:tw there was spartan hoplites and now RTR is doing a whole zone of recruitment thing

i was thinking maybe a similar thing could be done in blue lotus for example monks can only build there best units on 'monk' island and on the mainland they make levies? or something like that
also the japanese could make ninja only in their specified areas making it a good way to cut back on ninja but still allow them
and another: all factions can only build their major units in their original provnces this will make the factions even more unique and stop fast spreading like in r:tw where i just took all of greece in 10 years (as brutii (this made me look for a new mod in the first place :bow: ))
what do u think?

GMM'
-
The idea sounds good will have to do some testing once we've got it up and running. - hoggy

KingClas wrote this:

Hi
I wonder if there is any fations which still need to have units thought upp and/or if mercanaries are decided. I can join the team and come upp with ideas of units. Also i can ofcorce do the same with buildings. I can however do no editing.

/Clas

Hi King Clas, We're pretty much ok for factions, unit types etc. (Check out the Army List thread) but many thanks for the offer.

note: I'm going to move this thread to 'General' if you don't mind just to keep things tidy.

when will this mod be finished

runes wrote:

curious: is it possible to make a unit (consantly) carry the plague. I've tried a few times in vanilla to use some form of biological warfare, taking spies/diplomats from infected cities and send them into enemy cities. Mostly just for kicks, but i wonder of it's at all possible to have a permanently plague-bearing unit?

(Or, alternately, how about a permanantly plague-bearing city, that just churns out infected units)



- possibly. we could give it a go. Not sure how it would work gameplay wise though if the demon armies were constantly plagued.
ps. I've moved this to the General thread for general questions, cheers - hoggy

just a thought for later on.

turn the zombie troops into zone of recruitment troops recruitable only in territories of their culture. for example the undead samurai and zombie ashigaru would be recruitable only in japanese territories. then also make zombie troops to be recruitable in the territories of other factions. (chinese- zombie bamboo spearmen/undead heavey spearmen; indian- zombie peasants/undead golden swordsmen; etc.)

granted itd take more work but i think itd add more flavor to the mod.

it is easy to do area specific recruitment...... i have been doing a whole host of stuff to my carthaginian army to allow them to have different auxillias from different places eg gallic units, iberian units, african units and general auxillias

i have gotten quite good at editing text files now so if you need help??? :bow:

(moved) Greek Fire wrote :

Recently I read a book (ten thousand miles without a cloud, by sun shuyun) about a Chinese monk called Xuanzang, who in 630 AD who made an epic journey from China to India by skirting round the himalayas and travelling through modern day afghanistan.

He does this to obtain copies of the ancient sutras of the Indians, which he believes will help him to obtain enlightenment.
He has lots of adventures, including bandit attacks, his followers being wiped out by an avalanche while crossing the tien shan, and one desert king being so impressed with his wisdom he tries to force Xuanzang to marry his beautiful daughter.

I have no idea why this hasn't been made into a Hollywood movie, especially with so much interest in the east at the moment.

Heres the historical story of his adventures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang

But the Chinese also made a famous legend about his quest. In this version, Xuanzang is called to India by the Bodhisattva Guan Yin to obtain sutras not available in China. He is accompanied on this quest by The Monkey King Sun Wukong, the pig-monster Zhu Wuneng (豬悟能), and the half water demon Sha Wujing (沙悟淨) - all of whom have agreed to help him along the way as an atonement for past sins. His horse that Xuanzang rides is itself a dragon prince.

Here's the story of the legend.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclo...ney-to-the-West

I dunno, I'm sure the mod team already know about all this stuff, but apart from the jaw-dropping screenshots thread, this board seems a little quiet, so I thought I'd beef it up with a bit of Chinese history/mythology

There is a picture of Sun Wukong here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...503#post811503

there used to be a tv series that ran here in England with was dubbed from japanese (i believe) all about the monkey king, Pigsy and Sandy . Fantastic stuff. Although I think they called the monk Tripitaka?
here's a link to one site:
http://www.monkeyheaven.com/

Just some thoughts concerning the nature of the demon faction I will toss into the mix- probably of no use (clearly the mod team know what they are doin') but can't do any harm, right?
My impressions of Asian mythology and religions are that there is much less of an emphasis on, perhaps even no concept of, pure Good and Evil as opposed to the monotheistic West and Middle East. Perhaps more similar to Greek mythology... So gods, demi-gods, demons, humans and animals, with no one group or individual having a monopoly on good or evil. Rather all of them are in state of flux, partaking of those qualities in greater or lesser degrees from day to day. So demons might be bad, nasty, mischievous, cruel, anti-human, but probably not Eeeeville (crash of thunder). And the Demon Realm would not equal Hell. From a practical, mod standpoint that could be very good: it would seem perfectly logical to me if the demon faction allied itself with a human faction against another human faction. Whereas I believe the METW mod team might be having trouble with Good factions allying themselves with Evil factions in the SP campaign, etc., certainly in the Beta anyway, which still rocks. For all the above reasons I am really looking forward to playing the demon faction (man, I'm looking forward to this mod!)...
I'm also really looking forward to a specific custom battle: "Noooo, all the Ashigaru whom I heartlessly sent to their deaths in STW have come back to have their revenge!" ~:eek:

That ties in closely with the way we see the demon faction in BL. The demons themselves are not naturally evil or good. They have been summoned and ensnared for 'evil' purposes by stronger demons. A lot of the demon types; kappa, rokurokubi etc are more mischievious than evil and would certainly never combine to fight in unit strength without being controlled. Certain units like the dragons are controlled totally under binding. As it is, the demons can ally with whoever they like and demon units are available as mercenaries in certain areas to all factions. It is up to the player to choose their side as in RTW but the demon army is the biggest and most aggressive threat on the map.

1.) Who are the team and what do they do?


I like the idea of the deamons being neutral. If it were me, I would of made them either come to take back 'their' world which they lost in a great war some years ago or they were tricked by some force and were turned against every one.





I love this mod, I just wished I had some skills to help but I am useless as I work but as a conceptual designer (eg, discuss looks of units and try to get them to look their absolute best).

Wow, hoggy, that all sounds great to me! The incongruousness of more solitary creatures like kappa banding together into cohesive units hadn't even occurred to me: the concept of them being summoned and controlled by more powerful demons, with their own agendas, is perfect. Regional demons also being available for summoning / hire by human factions will also be very cool. Perhaps kappa can be paid with cucumber!~;) I believe that is how cucumber sushi (kappa maki) got its name, cucumber traditionally being left as an offering on the edge of marshes or wherever it is that kappa hang out, to mollify them! I don't generally like to play the strongest faction, but for Blue Lotus I will definitely make an exception for the first campaign at least.

I am sitting and listening to Huun Hur Tu (mongolian (mostly tuvan) folk/traditional music) and came to wonder about the progress of the music and sounds to this mod. Any music done? If so, could you (Big John?) please give us a little teaser clip to listen to. Link it to this forum. Would be really nice. :bow:

Ah music.

This is the only clip of Korean music that I can find so far.

http://www.geomungo.com/kor/main/media/chulgang.wma

The individual is playing a Geomungo, an instrument said to have been invented in Goguryeo. It's a type of zither.

I found a great site for Korean music, but there is some modern music mixed in there.

http://203.252.231.26/

Anything under these titles should be more traditional.

Our Favorite Music Series
Seoul Saeul Kayagum Trio
Sinawi Music of Korea - Farmer's Jazz
Hwang, UiJong
JongNongAkHoe
Arirang - the Song of Thounsand Years

Here are some early Chosun era warriors. I found them at http://cafe.daum.net/shogun.

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...06/TW/mace.jpg
mace

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b.../TW/shield.jpg https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...TW/shield2.jpg

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...W/naginata.jpg https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b.../naginata2.jpg

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...6/TW/spear.jpg https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b.../TW/spear2.jpg

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b.../TW/archer.jpg https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...TW/archer2.jpg

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...TW/cavalry.jpg https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...W/cavalry2.jpg

Wow...nice pictures..

I'm not familiar with that kind of armour style though.

What era is it from?

I want to guess Goryeo..but I'm not sure at all.

What you could do to make this mod exciting is to make a more story oriented campaign. Like;
In the beginning all of the human factions live in peace with each other, but are attacked by demons(a lesser demon faction) all the time.The monks have warned all of the factions that a great treath has arisen, a far worse demon faction, but the monks have given all the factions different messages to make them turn on each other, because the truth is that the monks control the demons and want to rule the orient themselves. for example, the chinese are told to get the head of the indian kalif and the japanese emperor. By doing this the chinese will be ignored by the demons(not really).
The goal of the monks is to get the demons to conquer three shrines which will realive the gods.

I know its not a original plot, but you get my point. To make a more story driven campaign. I don`t know if this is possible at all, and it is surely damn hard to make it work good, but it would be cool.
Maybe you can do it when BI comes, you know, making different victory conditions.You also have to have events, such as marius reform.

Of course you have to have an original total war campaign included.

Creative and original mod by the way, looking forward to playing it.

Whats the latest on other areas of the mod besides the units? Im assuming Blindfaithnogod and Sykotykrampage are still making progress?

well i've been busy implamenting all the great stuff hoggy is making. i've been a little busy with real life lately as well. sykotyk has been working on the 2d art for most of the buildings. he has just gone on vacation. so you may not hear from him for almost a month.

Hey guys. I just registered here solely because of this mod, so keep up the good work.

Anyway, I was wondering how agents will be implemented. Will the Demon faction have access to diplomats? IMO diplomacy should be completely unavailable to them. The whole idea of signing a peace agreement or bribing a horde of evil hellspawn just seems weird to me. Oh and sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere.

BTW If I would love to see this mod succeed and if I could help in anyway, I will. I havent got any modding experience but I could write faction/unit/building descriptions, etc.

Thanks
de norf

Hi Hoggy,
Just wondering are you the tutor instructing on model animation at the TMWA? The site for helping people learn how to mod, thats linked with TWC I think. Just joined yesterday :) learning how to script.

If so could I join your class and which programs would I need?

Sorry if this has already been mentioned but the threads are very big at this site :O

Anyway, excellent work, Blue Lotus looks a treat.

Thanks for your time :)

no, sorry, not sure where you heard that. I'm sure whoever is will know what they're doing though, it's an excellent project.

hoggy will you be implementing an AOR type system in blue lotus or will you keep it simple? if you are i could help....

quick question,

what is the victory condition going to be in Blue Lotus? in vanilla, it was 50 provinces + rome. is BL going to be like capture the monk island + certain # of provinces? or is it total domination of asia or something...?

Another quick question,

I read once, I beleieve in the men and monsters forum, about units being able to fortify their allies towns and villages will this be available in BL?

I only wonder as i felt it might help stem, the atack of the demon hordes.

Here is a website that show videos of a Korean cavalry:

Quote:

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Various Cavalry Movements
Demonstrations

http://www.chunghondang.com/images/gisaani.gif http://www.chunghondang.com/images/e-mar_1.jpg http://www.chunghondang.com/images/e-mar_2.jpg http://www.chunghondang.com/images/e-mar_5.jpg http://www.chunghondang.com/images/e-mar_4.jpg http://www.chunghondang.com/images/e-mar_3.jpg

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Sun Wukong would be a great idea.. except with his personality he would probably attack anyone he wanted to (unless the Buddha, or in this game the monks, forbid him to by reducing the size of the ring on his head). This would be quite problematic.. and add the fact that his stick, which can be made as large as he wants, would be impossible for the R:TW engine and it would simply demoralize and rout the enemy in one swift shot.

I was wondering about the the faction leader, and family members. How will these be implemented, will you create unique characters ? or traits ?

:eeeek: Hi, this is my first post but I have been following this mod for a while.:hide:
I remember reading somewhere (forgot where) about the agents you are using in this mod. :embarassed:
I like the ninga and the chinese diplomat, but the spie doesn't have character.:idea2:
I mean that of the three main cultures, you have only two of them represented in the agents: :inquisitive:
the ninga (japanese) and the diplomat (chinese).:book:
I believe that the spie should be a kitsune (japanese fox demon) so that the demons have a representative.~;)
I believe that they would be the perfect choice because traditionally they are not evil (just mischievous) and were known to be quite mercinary in their dealings.~:cool:
I know this might be too late for any change, but I just had to say it.:shame:
:stupido: Anyways,:sweatdrop:
:eyebrows: all praises the god of Rome Modding,:jumping:
:bow: Hoggy :2thumbsup:


:listen: How watch the dancing elephants.....:juggle2:

:elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant:

:creep: Aren't they pretty?:helloo:

:oops: I forgot to mention the kitsune's transformation ablities (they can make them selves look like anything as well as other objects) and their trickster nature.:dizzy2:

:laugh4: Again watch the pink elephants dance.:weirdthread:


:elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant: :elephant:


:dancing: Yea, thats the stuff.:shrug:

What do you guys think of the idea of adding another faction? I'm thinking maybe you can create a Demon/Human hybrid civilization in the Southeast Asia regions to replace the vast emptiness there~D .... Here are some ideas for possible units:

https://img433.imageshack.us/img433/...winmmod7dn.jpg
https://img311.imageshack.us/img311/6158/dehu9gj.jpg
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8135/img2327pj.jpg
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1852/dehu10kr.jpg
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8818/dehu26zw.jpg
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/...inting23co.jpg
https://img439.imageshack.us/img439/...inting14no.jpg
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1610/dehu53zg.jpg
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/488/dehu61xj.jpg
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/4668/dehu71ft.jpg
https://img433.imageshack.us/img433/6908/chams4lt.jpg

Some more Possible Units and models of Archers amd warriors:

Really nice reference material Asean. At the moment we've got enough on getting the existing factions working but that faction looks promising for a possible future expension.

Cool.... yeah I'll prefer if the team concentrate on the existing factions instead of trying to add another faction and pushing back the release. But when you decide to create a southeast asian faction as an expansion, I'll try to help provide some info..~:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asean

What do you guys think of the idea of adding another faction? I'm thinking maybe you can create a Demon/Human hybrid civilization in the Southeast Asia regions to replace the vast emptiness there~D .... Here are some ideas for possible units:

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I think that sounds like a really good idea, for a possible SEA faction... specially putting the demons in there as well - cos as Im sure you know theres a widely accepted culture of capturing and 'converting' demons to protect religious sights in this part of the world.

But if your gonna create a 'hybrid' civilization I also reckon since the Khmers were pretty much out of the picture at the time most of the other factions were at their height it would probably be better to go with just a Siamese/Burmese style army, since they were the main contenders in late medieval SEA... plus from the little I know about the Khmer army it wasn't too hot...

Oh well, I guess we're a long way from ever seeing anything like it in Blue Lotus... fair enough, but it would be cool.

I thought Blue Lotus was a "fantasy" mod with no timeframe. ~:confused:

Southeast Asia City gates (possible designs):

The one on the left is more of a medieval late 16th-17th century Thai gate. The one on the right is an older 11th century Khmer city gate.

https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/...itygate2ku.jpghttps://img71.imageshack.us/img71/7061/10484fv.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asean

I thought Blue Lotus was a "fantasy" mod with no timeframe. ~:confused:

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lol
ok fine, tbh maybe Khmers would be better stylistically in terms of building design and stuff, but their army wasnt particularly well equipped or very good.... I was just thinking in terms of unit variety etc later medieval would provide more inspiration.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MAt

but their army wasnt particularly well equipped or very good.... I was just thinking in terms of unit variety etc later medieval would provide more inspiration.

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You're basing this off of what? Please explain how Siamese/Burmese military are more "stylish", superior or better equipped then the Khmers? War elephants, archers, cavalry, spearmen were generic units in Southeast Asia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asean

You're basing this off of what? Please explain how Siamese/Burmese military are more "stylish", superior or better equipped then the Khmers? War elephants, archers, cavalry, spearmen were generic units in Southeast Asia.

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Ok, Im not claiming to have a broad knowledge of the subject, but as far as I was aware, it was generally accepted that subjugated Thai princes were able to not only drive off their Khmer overlords but sack Angkor and seriously finish off the Khmers as a significant military and political power in the region. Even at the height of their power, Chinese ambassadors commented on the Khmers' poorly equipped and poorly diciplined troops, often wearing little armour and more like a militia than an army.

By the time we get to the Ayuthaya period in Siam, the Siamese are by far the wealthiest power in the region, and weapon and armour technology gained significant advances with Chinese and Arabian influences. However the Burmese campaigns against the Siamese showed that the Burmese were by far the most effective fighting force in the region - although they could not withstand the Siamese resistance, even after Ayuthaya was burnt to the ground and all central government was effectively wiped out, the Siamese were able to rally and push the Burmese out.

The fact is, as far as the historical records I know of show, the Khmers downfall was their poor military and inability to ensure that Thai rebellions were dealt with effectively. By the time we get to 15th/16th/17th centuries, arms and armour had moved on considerably and your looking at much better equipped and trained militaries in SE Asia. The number of troops begins to vary a bit more and I think its fair to say there were more than just war elephants, archers, cavalry and spearmen.

I dunno... like I say I only have a very basic knowledge of South East Asian militaries - but war museums Ive visited in Bangkok alone would suggest a much broader array of troops - as well as various countries having differently equipped armies. If you're sure that armies in the region did vary much less than I seem to have figured then I'd be genuinely interested in being corrected.

EDIT: I just found this which might be of interest - it does indicate the level of equipment of Khmer armies at any rate...

http://fanaticus.org/dba/armies/dba110.html

And while this doesnt go into a great amount of detail about specific make up of armies, it gives a good account of what warfare in medieval SE Asia was like... I dunno... its an interesting read anyway.

http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/cou...s%20ch7DW.html

Ok this one is a pretty good one for looking at Siamese weaponry

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/to_arms_1.html

i swear this was a fantasy mod

i dosnt have to be all historcaly correct if its fantasy

it is fantasy there are demons

You may be right about the Khmers not having much armor, especially the lowest order of the Khmer army, who wore nothing but loin cloths and went into battle having only a shield and sword/spear. But then again, the same can be said about most Southeast Asian armies back then. You have to remember, this is in Southeast Asia, it gets really hot and the environment is totally different, and thus armor wasn’t used much. It's about mobility and fast movement in thick jungle terrain. However, some armor were used such as armor made of cane, leather and some metal. The Khmer, for example, certainly weren’t a rag-tag poorly put together army as you seem to be suggesting. There were some interesting units and weapons used, such as chariots, war elephants, cavalry, arhcers and infantry with different types of weapons and shields such as spears, swords etc. For example, here are some of their units and weapons depicted:

Spearmen:
https://img282.imageshack.us/img282/1234/khmer1a5rk.jpg

Elephant Archer:
https://img282.imageshack.us/img282/1036/khmer28yl.jpg

Archer:
https://img396.imageshack.us/img396/...fangkor7qa.jpg

Interesting Weapon:
https://img282.imageshack.us/img282/8424/khmer38tm.jpg

Cavalry:
https://img282.imageshack.us/img282/160/khmer48sk.jpg

LongShields:
https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1348/mjk0905sv.jpg

Chariots:
https://img420.imageshack.us/img420/...relief91js.jpg
Site with some Khmer weapons:
http://www.fareastasianart.com/direc...d_Weapons.html

12th-13th century Khmer cuirasses:
https://img388.imageshack.us/img388/...rass5cw.th.jpg

Quote:

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Ok this one is a pretty good one for looking at Siamese weaponry

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/to_arms_1.html

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That certainly is nice weaponry. But do you have any information on the Siamese/Burmese superior Armor? Many of those weapons were used by most armies in Southeast asia. The cannons and such came into use around the 16th-17th century, and were from the British. I do like the Siamese/Burmese army. There were some interesting units from there. If you prefer the Thai/Burmese army, you'll have to model the units from modern interpretation of what they were like, since there aren't many, if any, pictures of their units from this time period. It's easier to just go with the Khmer, since they had a huge influence in the region, had a huge empire, equally interesting units, unique architecture and such. But since they lack armor, you can always give them less defense attributes.

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The fact is, as far as the historical records I know of show, the Khmers downfall was their poor military and inability to ensure that Thai rebellions were dealt with effectively.

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What led to the downfall of the Khmers is still controversial. Military may or may not be one aspect, but leadership, stability of the economy and empire, religion, etc. also plays a role. But that's another topic I won't get into.

Thats some interesting stuff there. I'd agree with you about the general lack of armour in most armies of the region for most of history. And you're right there's not much information to go on for later armies, a lot of medieval Siamese art generally depicts soldiers as unarmoured, carrying a darb (sword) and a tow (small shield) accompanied by generals mounted on elephants. Id imagine the darb/tow combination must have been fairly generic in reality too, since it is still the symbol of the Thai police today. There were some heavier armoured troops as well, the picture of the armour on that website doesnt really do it justice - Im not sure who would have worn armour like that, I cant imagine there would be too many of people wearing it though.

A lot of the later technology in the region was a blend of technology that they imported from China, India and Arabia as well as Europe, I think there's definately scope to come up with a really interesting faction based on SEA.... but I still think with a unit roster you could include troops from across the region as well as the Khmer.

That said, what demons do think should be incorporated into the army?

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Originally Posted by MAt

That said, what demons do think should be incorporated into the army?

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Some fairly common ones should be Hanuman (Half Monkey Half Man), Demon/Giant from Ramakien mythology etc. I don't know much about southeast asian mythology, I'll have to do more research.

Actually, Hanuman is the name of a specific character in the Ramayana, where as his people (half-man, half-monkey) were called "Vanara".

Well, I played the Zensen for a while and I got some problems with the pirates:
The fleets of them are nearly unbeatable and its not possible to afford 2 drilled fieldarmies when all harbours in the "Japanese Sea" are blocked.

I guess its about how to reach the monks island (which makes sense to me) but fighting the demon hordes and the chonson without money is really though.

Isn't there a possibility to reconfigurate the pirate fleets with less harder men (like 200 and not 600) so that they are beatable with a respectable fleet?

It really dropped the gaming factor, towns are revolting (damaged temples can't be repaired) and the demons making party in the realm.

By the way, I think the engine for auto-resolve against demons is a little bit "weird". Fighting them manually causes "heroic victory" (because they panicked very easily after attacking with Kamikaze), but auto_resolve with a 7-star commander causes a draw or only minor victory with heavy own casualities.
Why this? To enforce manual playing? :inquisitive:

The autoresloving is something we haven't change, it still the same as in vanilla.
I'll have a look if the pirates are so overpowered cause I never had porblems with them before (I played a verry long time with the indians with who I even conquered the monk Island, tough that was a previous version. As conquering the monks is nearly impssible now. I think I will nerf them a bit.) Anyway I'll have a look at thos pirate fleets and see if they need to be nerfed too.

Well, it seems that the problem is not the strenght itself, it is the combination of a few pirate fleet in the eastern seas. For instance, if I attacked a pirate fleet with 200 vs 200, the chances are good to win the fight. But after ending the round, all pirates fleet around come to mess me up... - so 3 or 4 fleet with 300 to 600 men wrecking my fleet at once... :furious3:

So the problem is the amount of fleets? Hmmm I'll see if I can make a better compromise.

Yeah indeed it is. Historically you're right about the facts of piracy (if we can use historical facts for that issue) - but I don't think that it is realistic that rebels can afford a 4 times bigger fleet... - and because the AI seems not to build fleets, well it is all about the playa...

I don't know how the rebel AI is working (like refreshing the fleet...) but my idea was, to decrease the fleet in max manpower and increase the whole amount of rebel fleet. This would guarantee the same playground with fair chances to beat the pirate fleets.
By the way: what is the boni of the monks temple (the one on the island)? :juggle2:

Kay I'll see what to do with the pirate fleets.

Hmm...Forgot that. I'll look it up.

Hey! I'd just like to say that this Blue Lotus mod is simply the best mod ever made for RTW!!!!!!! I waited for ages for a mod to come out with the japanese faction/factions! Even then i was expecting them to be a load of bull:furious3: !!!!!!!!!!!! But then i found this on the front of PC GAMER and i was like wow!!!!! After not playing rome in ages i went and re-installed it just for this mod!!!!!!! I thank all the blue lotus team for making this fantastic mod! Just one thing though...
I think it would be good if you could bring back the battlefield ninja from Shogun back into this mod! I used to love seeing the ninja run across the field! Sorry if they are in it and i just can't find them! Would be cool though!
Thanks!
Jack/Jakku
:2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Jakku

Hey! I'd just like to say that this Blue Lotus mod is simply the best mod ever made for RTW!!!!!!! I waited for ages for a mod to come out with the japanese faction/factions! Even then i was expecting them to be a load of bull:furious3: !!!!!!!!!!!! But then i found this on the front of PC GAMER and i was like wow!!!!! After not playing rome in ages i went and re-installed it just for this mod!!!!!!! I thank all the blue lotus team for making this fantastic mod! Just one thing though...
I think it would be good if you could bring back the battlefield ninja from Shogun back into this mod! I used to love seeing the ninja run across the field! Sorry if they are in it and i just can't find them! Would be cool though!
Thanks!
Jack/Jakku
:2thumbsup:

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Ninja's are mercenaries. You can recruit them in (let me check...)
the provinces:
Ouyama_Provence Yuusen_Provence Hokyo_Provence Kiso_Provence Akagi_Provence Akitsuki_Provence Epirus
Or Japan in other words.

Just a question but what did they say about the mod in PC gamer?

Just a question but what did they say about the mod in PC gamer?[/QUOTE]



In PC Gamer they said exactly this:
'Blue Lotus
Where God is on nobody's side'
The citizens of Blue Lotus must find it very hard to get competitive insurance rates. Not only is there seemingly always a war on, with demons and zombies fighting bitterly for supremacy of the three-continent world, but every major disaster is an act of God. There's no way Allied War-Elephant Insurance Ltd Is going to pay out these circumstances. And the premiums must be dreadful.
Blue Lotus is a Rome: Total War mod that pays homeage to ancient Japanese, Chinese and Indian mythology, but isn't in any way beholden to it. In the middle of these races sit the gods - drunken, bitter and divisive - raining catastrophe, misery and misfortune on the weary humans below. So far, so realistic. However, the modder cities ''cinema,fiction and random imagination'' as equally important sources when it comes to units and armies, and subsequently there's ''no real constraint'' on what can be included. The result is an impressive mod featuring fishmen, monkeys, Onimusha- style zombies and giant demonswith enormous spiky things they'd like to show you close-up.
There are other factions beyond Eastern mainstays, though they're not yet as developed as the original three. The Demons are playable but don't present too much of a challenge while the Mongol and Korean factions are fairly thin at the moment; ultimately they'll get the extra units they need. But then, this doesn't claim to be a totally comprehensive conversion - much of the artwork is little more 'placeholder' in reality, for instance - but the creators wisely take the point of view that it's best to get a working version out there (currently beta v1.0, though there's a small patch) than spend forever in development hell.

:laugh4:

Jakku

Lol funny description tough I don't know who'll make the Korean and Mongol units they are talking about!

Hehe i personally don't like the mongol faction! But if you could finish the koreans it would be good! Is it just me or does everyone get a CTD when playing as the Zensen clan when the Koreans attack one of your cities and then you click play battle and it all messes up?!?!???????:help: plz!!
thanx
jakku

Hmmm... We'll have a look.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...nd_No_Face.jpg

I originally posted this at TWC, following Hoggy interview
( http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...8&postcount=24 )

Take a look ~:)

Ikon

Just wondering,is it posible for me to liek edit somthing somewere so that 1 of my general is immortal? as in not immortal on the battle field,no no just as in lives for ever not deing froem old age but can be assasinated or die in a battle..does anny 1 know?

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Originally Posted by Asean

What do you guys think of the idea of adding another faction? I'm thinking maybe you can create a Demon/Human hybrid civilization in the Southeast Asia regions to replace the vast emptiness there~D ....

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I agree. I watched a rerun of a documentary on Angkor Wat. The Khmers had international trade with neighboring states. The city of Angkor was wealthy and was nearly the size of Los Angeles. Trade with the Khmers would be a good way to increase income. Plus, Southeast Asian states used a lot of elephants for warfare.

Adding a faction, perhaps one day.

Hello

i am new to Modding and is trying to put together a mod based on legend of the five rings and was refurred at twc center to your mod to ask permission to make a minimod if i may?

http://s15.invisionfree.com/L5R__TW/

these are my current forums.